This morning on Mancow Muller’s radio show on WLS/AM 890, Anne Green, a former worship leader at Harvest Bible Chapel, accused Harvest founder and senior pastor, James MacDonald, of touching her leg near her crotch during a trip on a private plane in 2005. The plane reportedly was one that MacDonald formerly shared with Bill Hybels, the founder of Willow Creek Community Church who recently stepped down amid allegations of sexual harassment and assault.
Green said she responded by saying loudly, “You can’t touch me there!.” She said MacDonald laughed and replied, “I never would’ve thought Anne Green would be the one to bring down my ministry!”
Anne actually told me this story months ago, but I haven’t reported it because I’ve been seeking to get corroboration for her story. I’ll be publishing her complete story soon, including the testimony of others who were on staff at Harvest at the time. In the meantime, here’s the audio and transcript of Anne’s conversation with Mancow today.
Mancow: Anne, welcome to the program. Are you there? Anne?
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Mancow: Yeah, hi.
Anne: Yeah, hi.
Mancow: Gotta be very careful. I got hit with a flurry of letters denouncing you. Of course. Uh, from the church.
Mancow: But, uh, look, I know, I understand they’re denouncing me too. Anyone that asks questions, you know, you get a knife stuck in your back, and then they say it’s covered with love.
Anne: Exactly. Protect, protect James. Alienate the victim.
Mancow: Protect the cult leader, James Macdonald, at all costs. And there’s a lot of great people there. I want to make that clear. But when his best friend is still in charge, and all of his other hand-picked goons, it ain’t a church. It’s a family business. And if you’re fine with giving 10% of your income to that, tithing, and I believe in it, I’m saying this to the other folks, great. I met with a psychologist yesterday. I met with one when my father died, and he helped me ride through it. And uh, yesterday I’m talking to him and he’s like, “wow, you’re going to need a lot of help. You’re going to need a LOT of help. This guy really screwed you up royally.”
And, when you put your trust in this sort of guy, and you find out he’s an abusive, manipulating liar, it messes you up. Anne had a horrific thing happen, according to her. Her story is going to be on next. We’re going to have the victims of this cult on the show, until they fix things. And what is fixing things? Well, it’s open the books, tell us where the money went. Millions of, tens of millions of dollars I believe are, in my opinion, sitting there for James MacDonald’s retirement. And remove all of his hand-picked goons, and family members, and then let it start as a church. Let it really be a church. And set the people free. It’s time. They’ve waited long enough. And there are thousands of abused people. “But what about the people in the church?!?” What about the thousands that aren’t in the church? And what about the thousands that are in the church that deserve to know the truth?
Anne: Harvest Church
Mancow: Harvest cult.
Studio voice: Harvest cult.
Mancow: And I call it that because if you look up what a cult is, that’s a cult. So anyway, what Anne went through, Anne is loved by everybody. She’s beyond reproach. She was someone that everybody knew. Thousands and thousands of people knew. And her story, next. By the way, it’s on the cover of the paper today, right John?
John Dempsey: Yes. People walking out of church yesterday, because they were upset that MacDonald’s right-hand man delivered the sermon via video.
Mancow: He fake fired himself because he got caught doing all kinds of stuff. And so, then his best friend stands up, and they went, “WHAT?!??! OH COME ON!!!!!”
John: The Tribune said, “Dozens of people walked out of the service.”
Mancow: Yeah, and I’ll bet it was more than that.
ANNOUNCER: THE MANCOW.[BREAK]
Mancow: Let’s go to, . . . Anne, how are ya?
Anne: Hi, Mancow. Good morning.
Mancow: So, this is not the right place for you to be doing this, but nobody else is doing it. And I want everybody to know that this is not what I want to do. This is not what I want to do with my time, with my life. But I do see a lot of injustice going on and a scam. And so, I want to let people know what they’re dealing with. And look, he bamboozled me. James MacDonald. Con artist. I don’t believe he believes the Bible. Anne, do you?
Anne: I believe he is a false prophet.
Mancow: Yeah. He uses it as a tool to manipulate and to get money. He can quote the Bible to get money. To make you feel guilty.
Anne: He has an agenda. It’s hard to say. It’s really hard to say. I mean, I was with him in his good days, and then it got really bad. So, you know, it’s hard to say.
Mancow: I know you and your husband have been through a lot. By all accounts, everybody that I talked to, everybody still at Harvest goes, “Oh yeah, Anne Green was a major leader in the church. Everybody loved Anne. Hey, what happened to Anne? Anne used to be . . . what happened to her?” So, I tracked you down on the internet, and what happened? Why did you leave Harvest?
Anne: Oh, my gosh. Well, ultimately, I mean, he fired my husband when he was on staff. And so, you know, we were no longer being paid on salary. So, we stayed an extra year. And I was able to start seeing through it, without having my whole life supported by him. And I really just started seeing through it and I really started understanding that he just to seemed have an agenda that really wasn’t about Jesus.
Mancow: You want to talk about what happened on the plane?
Anne: Yeah, sure. You know, I mean, it was back in, around [the year] 2005, and I was on a Walk In The Word trip to California and back. And James MacDonald’s on the plane, along with Trei Tatum, Andy Rosier, who’s a worship leader, and Sandy Song. And we flew to California and back, to the Lake in the Hills airport. It was all in a 24 hour time. And I was sittin’ in the back seat. And James, uh, moved over by me, and he snuggled up to my right side, and leaned his head onto my right shoulder. And then, uh, he reached across with his right hand, and put his right hand on my right upper thigh, right next to my crotch. I, uh, I was shocked and immediately said, “You can’t touch me there!” And I said it loud. And I heard giggles, from the others, I thought. And James kinda got flustered, pawing his hands on my shoulder, laughed and said, “I never would’ve thought Anne Green would be the one to bring down my ministry.”
Mancow: Well, a lot of that syncs up with a lot of different things. He told me, uh, he told me that he was, uh, see, the Seedorfs run N-Jet. And N-Jet ran the plane for MacDonald and Bill Hybels. They shared a private jet. So, I kinda heard stories. And I’ve heard stories about this, for probably two years. And I asked James about it when we were friends. And he basically said that you’re a holy-holy type, and that’s not the words he used, that you’re just holier than thou, easily offended and that there was some turbulence, and he brushed up against you because the plane shifted, and you made it some kind of sexual harassment thing. That’s what he told me, and I remember clearly. Just this weekend, he was texting people, people were forwarding it to me. And it’s basically, “He’s on an island. He’s suffered such injustices.” And again, him and his goons that he hand-picked, he’s still running this as a PONZI scheme, in my opinion. And he’s still the victim, Anne. He’s still the victim!
Mancow: And I just wonder . . . and the guy could have ended all of this, James MacDonald could have ended this, ALL of this, again, on the cover of the paper today, with a phone call. Had he shown any kind of care for people like you, people like me and my family, and thousands of others, things would be different. So, he slid his hand up to your crotch, your story, then I’m sure he cried. Then he fake-cries when he gets caught. (Mancow imitates sound of person crying) “What have I done?” And then, when nobody’s looking, he tells people like me, “(Mancow imitates James’ laughter) Hilarious.” And you heard the tape I have, which is allegedly him, “I can earn a hundred thousand dollars in a minute with my act.” And it is an act, folks, it is an act. She says she doesn’t know. Well, I think I do. I don’t think someone that believes in a God, and knows that there’s heaven and hell, feels up women, lies, berates people and destroys families and chases people away from God. I don’t think that’s what someone who believes in God does.
*Below is Harvest Bible Chapel’s response to Anne’s allegations, which were posted Monday evening:
Harvest Bible Chapel received a report in September of 2018 of an alleged inappropriate incident, which took place on a private flight in 2005, between Dr. James MacDonald and Mrs. Anne Green. The Elders took the matter seriously and began investigating immediately.
After hearing of the accusation, the Human Resources department of Harvest Bible Chapel proactively reached out to Mrs. Green on September 30, 2018, via email and text. Below is the email. Please note, for privacy, the name of the other woman on the plane has been omitted.
We have been made aware that you may have a concern about something from your time of employment or ministry involvement at Harvest.
We care about all who have labored for the Lord with us, past and present and since it was not reported at the time, we want to offer an opportunity to tell your story to a couple of women who remain here and remember you fondly.
I would like to schedule a call with you and [other woman on plane], maybe an Elder’s wife and myself, as I work in our HR department. We are offering a safe environment to share your story without fear and understand if you choose not to. Also, be assured this offer does not expire should you wish to talk with us in the future.
Just know that we care for you and would appreciate some response at your earliest convenience – at least to know we have connected with you to express our care and support.
Mrs. Green did not respond to the email or text invitation. Additionally, Mrs. Green never filed a police report regarding the alleged incident.
The three other passengers from that flight were interviewed. The passengers stated that they did not recall seeing or hearing anything suspicious or inappropriate.
With no complaint filed by Mrs. Green, no report to the police and the testimony of three witnesses on the flight, Harvest Bible Chapel closed the investigation with the Elders considering the case appropriately vetted and no further action required.
In light of today’s radio interview that Mrs. Green provided to WLS Radio, Harvest Bible Chapel would like to reiterate a sentence from the email sent to Mrs. Green in September, “be assured this offer does not expire should you wish to talk with us in the future.”
122 thoughts on “Mancow Interview: Former Worship Leader at Harvest Accuses James MacDonald of Inappropriately Touching Her on Private Plane”
Our Lord always looks after His people. All churches are made up of people who sin. Sadly when leadership leads to pride and deceit the members pay the price. God is purifying Harvest. There are good, holy Christian people who attend that church, despite McDonald. Let God do His thing so that Harvest will continue with sincere, humble, and holy people.
I’m sorry to hear about what has happened to Anne and am grateful for her willingness to publicly share it with others, in spite of the very predicable risk of criticism and marginalization from others. As a victim of sexual abuse myself, I can confidently say that abuse isn’t so much about sex (and it is), but the bigger force is really POWER. Victims of abuse often experience a sense of powerlessness that shapes many other aspects of their lives for years. Some of the responses here are unfortunate examples of the opposition that victims must confront when they chose to speak out.
To be clear here, I’m among those who struggle in their faith, looking to (honestly) understand how going to church actually changes the condition of one’s heart. My experience is that it produces tenderhearted individuals, and it makes some people more bitter and insensitive. In the case of Anne (and those like her) I have feelings of tenderness, and I believe empathy. These feelings aren’t from religious beliefs that come from church attendance. Instead, as someone who has experienced abuse, my feelings come from the sadness and anger experienced when I hear about others (Like Anne) who have been hurt by an abuse of power. Some call that betrayal. Over the past several months (and years) reading stories and comments about HBT. I’m saddened to see a lack of empathy and genuine concern over the people who have been hurt, intimidated, marginalized or disillusioned because of James and HBT leadership. During the time of the lawsuit, I didn’t see any public example of “Love those who persecute you”. I do remember that from Sunday school :). Did anyone say “In a season of disagreement, we sincerely pray for those who take issue with us. We pray blessings for their family. ”? And I can’t speak for all the members of HBC (as I trust many genuine and good people attend there), but many of the comments from HBC supporters give the appearance they are more concerned about the reputation of James and his leadership team, than they are concerned about the even possibility of an injustice. It seems to come from a position of contempt than tenderness. If someone gets hurt…well that’s just the cost of doing business…move on and give God thanks…. I just wish it was different than that.
In the short history of the internet nobody has even been persuaded to change their opinions because the argument made in the comment in a blog like this. Those with a different opinion than mine will likely respond with Bible verses that aren’t applicable (or at least presented in a way I can understand), so I’ll just say I wish circumstances were different and sad to see that many choose to exist in (what I believe to be) a toxic culture. I hope Anne’s story on the radio has brought healing for her and others. Lastly, we owe a debt of gratitude of Julie and Mancow for making this conversation possible.
Mark Driscoll was James buddy. Mark ran his Mars Hill Church same way as JMAC. They finally kicked Mark out of Mars Hill after similar scandle(s). I believe Mars Hill finally folded. Mark Driscoll opened a new church in Arazona. This is a reason why everything is needed to be brought out and kept public. James went to Florida so he could setup shop there and fleece new customers.
Mark A. Driscoll is an American evangelical Christian pastor and author who serves as Senior & Founding Pastor of The Trinity Church in Scottsdale, Arizona.
IN my opinion, everything needs to be brought out in the open, the 100 hours of tapes need to be aired. The only restriction should be the airing of information about innocent victims (e.g. Anne Green). Current and former leaders, Elders that either participate in the evil doings or knew first hand need to be exposed. Current and former leaders that misused funds, ran up the debt need to be held personally libel for the money. Parents of children that were personally affected by Paxton Singer need to sue HBC and any leaders involved if any type of coverup occurred. People that resign should not be able to ride off in the sunset if they were involved in the misdeed. Held personally responsible financially and criminally if applicable.
A pox on all the former “leaders” that left Harvest in silence. They knew James MacDonald character but walked away saying nothing. Leaving the problem to get bigger. Creating an environment for a child molester to thrive. An environment to abuse the employees. An environment to abuse the flock.
I totally believe Anne and commend her for speaking out. James’ statement to Mancow also supports Anne’s story…”there was some turbulence, and he brushed up against you because the plane shifted…”
So, MacDonald is affirming the physical contact happened, he is only denying intent.
This is truly disturbing! I find myself traveling back in time to the 1970’s as a young, frightened, and impressionable child attending a Baptist Church after my Baptist father left my mother for another woman he met at work, and my devastated mother was no longer welcomed in the “Christian” church. And….this actually is very similar to the current narrative we see politically in our American post-Christian culture as more people reject absolute truth!
I would encourage you to tread very lightly with your newfound friend…Being from the Chicago-land area…I am very familiar with the “shock jock” you have now befriended…
This is not of God….And this is not Christ-like in appearance….
Perhaps now….as a fellow sister in Christ….you should leave vengeance for our Lord?
Is Anne Green of God? If so is then her account and witness of God? If not then then why not and are you prepared to say the same about other women if they come forward?
What the heck does that mean, Charles? If what she said was the truth, then it’s of God, if what she said was a lie, then its not.
Indeed. Everyone has to use discrenmnt to know it. I say she said the truth which why MacDonald must be lying.
GOD THE FATHER IN HIS INFINITE WISDOM HAS USED A DONKEY, A PROSTITUTE, KING DAVID
(a murderer and adulterer) IN TIMES PAST TO SPEAK AND PROMOTE HIS KINGDOM AND HIS WILL
NOTHING TO SEE HERE , LETS MOVE ON or should I say RUN!
We left Harvest around the time TED had come out. It was not long after the Stowells, Slezaks, Alchins and then Barbers left. These people were all in leadership and left quietly. These were people we admired. They had godly character and were respected. We began to know something was GREATLY wrong but we did not know why?( we served but were not in leadership)Why is it that Christian evangelicals think it is ungodly to speak out to protect others? Our hearts have been broken by this. Can more formal leaders share their stories? Wondering? so many former and current members are hurting. Current leaders please do the right thing and step down. This is hurting Christians and non-Christians tremendously. I know the church is being purified, but a trail of destruction has been left behind by those in current leadership not just to those staying but to those who have already left.Pastor Rick- how do you say”We have always tried to be honest at harvest?? Get real man“ You do not care about the souls of men. Many many families have been affected by this.
Part of the reason lots of former HBC employees have not spoken out publicly is because they have all been forced to sign non-disclosure agreements and are legally liable if they speak out. I would argue, however, that NOW IS THE TIME for them to be bold, courageous, and brave and let the LORD defend them. Can HBC sue dozens of people simultaneously? Besides, I’m guessing many aspects of the NDA are not legally binding especially if they’ve witnessed actions or financial dealings that are illegal. PLEASE, HBC employees, be lions, where are you?
PLEASE DO NOT CAL HIM PASTOR HE IS A HIRELING ALWAYS WAS AND IS
MY SECOND THOUGHT OUT LOUD IS THIS ……. WHEN WILL THE PAIN BE GREAT ENOUGH IN ONES LIFE TO SEEK THE PURE HOLY TRUTH OF GODS WORD……..
BY THE WAY … HAVE YOU READ THE 32 PAGES OF THE BYLAWS …… THE SYSTEM WAS SET UP THAT WAY TO ALLOW THE DAMAGE WE ARE SEEING TODAY
Harvest posted a response to Anne’s allegations. They offered her to meet with an HR rep and an Elder’s wife. How out of touch are they?
I can’t fathom why they’d think she’d trust them for 1/10th of one second. The fact that they posted this as a snappy little response is proof that they’re not about the truth, they’re about covering themselves. They prove up just why she never should’ve met with them or spoken with them.
I am just wondering why people feel the need to continue attacking? You’ve been heard. James MacDonald was fired. The leadership at HBC is working to make changes. Changes that are not going to happen overnight. All of these people keep coming out of the woodwork, but this isn’t being done for the sole purpose of honoring the Lord. I get it, you want to be heard. What JMac did was reprehensible. What leadership allowed was reprehensible. But how is the continual berating of a church (that most of you have no intention of ever going to) going to do anything to glorify the Lord or grow the Kingdom of Christ? IT ISN’T. And I know your immediate defense of your own actions will be that you are just “warning all of the lost souls that still are part of Harvest” or “the world must know so it can be stopped.” Mission accomplished. They’ve all been warned. And changes are being made. Changes that you somehow feel are your responsibility or right to dictate. Who are you to dictate that? It isn’t your church – it’s GOD’S CHURCH. And it’s a church that you’ll never attend no matter what they do.
My main concern now is for all of the people who have made it their sole purpose in life to take down HBC and what is left of their leadership team, now that JMac is out. Ask yourselves this…has this become an obsession for you? Take a moment to look at how you’ve spent your time these last few days, weeks, months. Are you spending more time writing angry Twitter posts, responding to blog comments and/or continually talking or thinking about HBC and James MacDonald than you are reading your bible and humbling yourself before the Lord? Maybe you are spending equal amounts of time doing those things, but it is good practice to check yourself on this.
Think about it, if you were to die this very day and had to stand before the Lord with a printout of all of your Twitter posts or blog responses, how would you explain yourself to Jesus Christ himself? If he just stood there silently before you and placed that in front of you, what would you have to say for yourself about your tone, your motives, your attitude? People are filled with all of this self-righteous anger and seem to be forgetting that God is in control. You don’t think the Lord knows what was going on with James all of those years? You don’t think he isn’t going to have to answer for his sins? Why is it your job to keep stirring the pot that has already boiled over?
This is just some food for thought. I’m praying for all of the people who are shouting the loudest here because I really do believe you are going to have to answer for it in a consequential way. This is NOT bringing glory to God. Several of you are publicly showing a really ugly side of yourselves over and over again and you don’t even realize it. You keep justifying it to yourselves by pointing fingers at those you are yammering about. But you have managed to show the world (both believers and non-believers) that you have an ugly, sinful heart too. May God have mercy on all of us.
Tweetigyrl27 . . . While I’m sure there are some angry bloggers, I think what EVERYONE is wanting is the complete truth of how HBC has been managed over the years . . . It appears to have been mismanaged . . . with cover-ups, lies and half-truths coming out in response to what many people are bringing to light. The continued lack of truth, confession, repentance, transparency, etc by those who are being allowed to lead HBC only causes more frustration, anger and mistrust. As Kimberly pointed out, all of the “cancer” needs to be removed.
Their leadership team enabled evil. Simple as that.
I suppose they might stand before God (and their pillow each night for that matter) knowing they represented those who have been (and continue to be marginalized).
I am thankful that many people are obcessed with finding out the truth. It’s just sitting silent that has allowed sexual abuse to persist in the greater church (and I’m not just talking about Catholics). To me this is not a matter of “I told you so”. It’s a matter of doing what one believes is right. You got two type of people here. You’ve got those who exchange interesting bible verses and pontificate. Then you have those who say “Enough…I can’t watch this lady be marginalized. Enough….I can’t rest until we know every step has been taken to expose the likes of Paxton Singer”. If that is considered hate and self-righteousness, then count me in!
I think your main problem is with the truth. I get it. It’s also with Jesus, who spoke of whispers in the inner rooms being shouted from rooftops and things being brought out into the light. Was kind of a theme of His ministry. The truth, right? I think you need to take up your grievance with Jesus, He’s the One you’re in opposition to.
Tweetigyrl27…I’d like that point out a good comparison: When my surgeon went in to cut out the cancer this summer, should she have left some?
Kimberly…If your surgeon were to have left some of the cancer, would it somehow also be the fault of every single one of his colleagues, office staff and patients? The surgeon is found of malpractice and fired, but the entire practice must be shut down too then, right?
Tweetigyrl27. Surgery is a team sport. Teams work together to operate on cancer. Could it be that when malpractice occurs, the performance of every member of the team is evaluate? Perhaps a hospital administrator would conclude that the surgeon and 4 other members of the team need to go. And the same goes for churches. At Harvest, James MacDonald did not operate as an isolated individual. Some of his patterns of behavior may have been enabled by other leaders. Please don’t work to stop the investigation before the full truth comes out. Truth sets free.
Exactly right, Neal. What we all want is for the full truth to be made known. We devoted over a decade to HBC. Gave a whole bunch of money to this fraud. It’s not wrong or un-Christian to advocate for the truth. This ceased to be a private church matter long ago. The lawsuit made sure of that. James and all of the leaders/Elders who allowed him to “happen” must be exposed.
Jessica…you seem to be posting everywhere you possibly can about this situation in an effort to ensure the “truth” is heard. Your extensive obsession with this situation is frighteningly unhealthy. I am praying that the Lord will finally grant you some peace and freedom from the pain you are imprisoned by.
Neal…all I’m saying is that people are obsessed with what they think it means to get the truth out. We just keep chipping away and chipping away at peoples lives. And for what? What is our ultimate goal here? I am just as disgusted by the angry mob posting all over the internet as I am by Pastor James and the leaders of HBC. When is it all going to stop? When is it going to be enough? The people want blood and they’re going to get it. But at what price? I do not for a moment believe that God is smiling down on each of you saying “Well done, my good and faithful servant.” Look at the strife all of this is causing between people who call themselves brothers and sisters in Christ. None of this is pleasing to the Lord. James has been exposed. HBC has been exposed. Now leave it alone and get out of God’s way so that HE can purify his church. You “Truth-tellers” are no better than James or HBC, I’m sorry.
Jessica Hockett . . . Thank you. Thank you for your tireless devotion to the call of our Lord on your life.
“Tweetigyrl27” . . . Our ultimate goal may be to cooperate with God’s plan to purify the Bride of Christ. Our penultimate goal, as I see it, is to, “wrestle against authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness,” and “against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places.” Note that the subject of the verb “wrestle” in Ephesians 6:12 is “we.” We are called to wrestle in a high-stakes battle. I do not apologize for “obsessing” over the task of fighting well. There are many here in the Chicago area who are trapped in darkness. I’m working hard to help to liberate them.
Tweety – When the truth finally gets out and you comes to terms with the fact that you’ve bought into a corrupt system, we’ll stop posting, OK? Jesus loves the truth, right? People have every right to be angry when a guy takes people for tens of millions, abuses people and is enabled by a team of leaders and hangers-on. The obsession here is yours. You’re obsessed with shutting down the truth. Please, stop sanctimoniously talking about how you’re going to pray for others and start looking in the mirror and repent for wanting to shut down the truth. Your beef here is with Jesus, not us. Take it up with Him.
Mike Wiggins…I’m not sure how you gathered that I have a “beef with Jesus.” The thought of that is completely ludicrous. How am I obsessed with shutting down the truth? This afternoon is the first and only time/place I have posted about this matter. I have read through the posts a little here and there (as much as I can stomach since it’s pretty repetitive). Some of the same people on here have been compulsively posting about it here, on Twitter, on Facebook and heaven knows where else for weeks on end. The definition of Obsess is “to dominate or preoccupy the thoughts, feelings, or desires of (a person); beset, trouble, or haunt persistently or abnormally.” The kind of behavior of some folks I’ve seen is completely consistent with the definition of obsessed. I assure you, I am not in that place. My own busy life would never afford me the time for that type of nonsense. But keep on preaching, brother. You clearly know more than I do on the matter…
Reason I say your beef is with Jesus is because He’s the one who spoke of whispers in the inner rooms being shouted from the rooftops. He’s the one who spoke of the darkness hating the light, because it exposes the evil stuff going on. You seem to be the one here wanting to shove stuff back into the darkness. If the truth is being told, you should be happy for it–if you’re about the truth, and about Jesus. So yes, I reiterate, your beef is with Jesus, 100%. Take it up with Him and repent.
Tweetigyrl, you say: I do not for a moment believe that God is smiling down on each of you saying “Well done, my good and faithful servant.”
Exhale and smile. It’s not on you to know what God says to anyone of us one way or the other.
Shouldn’t you be teaching a class at 1:54 pm Neal at Wheaton Christian? Or do none of you angry keyboard warriors have a job?
Absolutely pathetic, “Praying for a Real Change”. Pray for yourself and repent. You’ve been following people who weren’t about Jesus. Just eat, live with it, and repent. Simple as that.
Maybe you should take a look in the mirror.
My last post was for” praying for real change “
I don’t think it is pathetic to note that a teacher at Wheaton Christian is spending his time on his wife’s blog replying to comments and continuing to stir up the vitriol. However, I do think it is pathetic to read each reply absolutely attacking anybody that speaks up in the contrary to the angry mob. Yes, there is change that needs to be done. Yes, many of the elders need to step down. No, you don’t know all of the elders and their hearts so stop demanding that each of them needs to resign. Yes, James/Luke/Landon needed to be removed from this church. Yes, Rick needs to either step down or step up and publicly repent instead of preaching about storms that we are not in, rather acknowledge and lament the judgement we as a church are under now. No, Jeff D does not need to resign…if you were at the Elgin campus on Sunday, you heard from a man who is deeply hurting and seemingly deeply sorry for his role. Isn’t that what you wanted to hear? Then why are you still demanding his resignation? No, Dave Learned does not need to resign…he is one of the most Godly and humble men at Harvest. We need men like him to step up and lead. No, Mo does not need to step down…he stepped down from the XLT and is leading humbly, seeking the Lord first (at least according to his few posts on IG).
But, I will hold my line with regards to Neal…a teacher at WCA shouldn’t be on his wife’s blog during the school day commenting on every post.
Praying for a real change – if you think that Jeff Donaldson and Dave Learned do not need to go you obviously have very little understanding of the culture of Harvest.
These men ABSOLUTELY need to go as they have been and will continue to infuse HBC DNA into everything they do. It is who they are. Removing James and his goons will not remove the years of grooming.
Even after these men leave, it will be a very difficult road to walk entering into church environments that are so NOT what HBC DNA was. This will take years to recondition their thinking to keep Jesus, not James, at the forefront of their minds and speech.
If they knew about the cancer that was left and did NOTHING, then YES! Fire all of them! This is not rocket science, this is common sense!
I must keep reminding myself that when a person (or a group) is being deceived they do not realize it. If they did realize it, it wouldn’t be deception. This entire situation is evil.
Amen! The reality is Tweetigyrl27 that you are saying it’s wrong for all of the abused, lies, deceit, etc to not be told. Not to quote Jack Nicholson, But maybe you can’t handle the truth. The truth is essential for God’s people to heal and grieve. Do you want us to walk in darkness? Let’s just pretend all that has happened isn’t that bad. Wrong! It’s horrible and the truth is must come out and be dealt with. Maybe Harvest the Corporation needs to go away. Not God’s real church. I am thankful God is bringing this to light. There is real evil here which must be cast out!
A number of folks commenting on Anne’s allegations are questioning the character (and motives) of Anne, Julie and others who have come forward to tell their stories.
Why cannot the character, talk, threats, and angry actions of James MacDonald be put to the same test in the arrogant history of his ministry or be evident by his leadership Elders at HBC?
Galatians 5 lists two kinds of character traits that can arise in any of us: 1) works of the flesh, Gal. 5:19-21; and, 2) fruits of the Spirit, Gal. 5:22-26. What we have been seeing manifest in the character of J.Mac for most of his “ministry”, sadly but truthfully, is “works of the flesh.” The hatred, anger, threats, finger pointing, wrath, strife, seditions (even threats of lawsuits [vengeance]); all of these are not fruits of the Spirit, but are works of the flesh… These manifestations are deadly character flaws in a very prideful, narcissistic personality.
I know that some people will always be fooled, but the source of such behavior should be evident to most intelligent folks…
Todd Oltendorf (@ HBC 2005-2013)
I am thankful to have been challenged to step out of comfort box by Bill W. to take over leading a men’s small group in my home for a year, and the amount God grew me in my walk with Him.
I am thankful to have volunteered many hours working on remodeling around the Rolling Meadows building and the camp being able to use the gifts of working with my hands for Gods glory.
I am thankful to have been part of the leadership team in Upwards and co-leader of the singles volleyball and leading devotionals there. I will never forget the lady that received Christ one of the evenings and then me weeping with joy as I drove home because the Lord used a sinner like me so HE could save a soul.
To the main point of my post is this-
Oh Heavenly Father,
During the years I attended HBC and served I know I fell into idolizing HBC. I was overly proud, thinking HBC was better than any other church around. I was wrong. Lord, You know where my heart was when I was serving, I thank you for those opportunities. Father, I seek your forgiveness of these sins, and I pray for the men that where in my small group, the men and woman in the singles ministry that I may have caused or influenced to fall into the same sin. If any of you are reading this I ask for your forgiveness. If my idolizing of HBC influenced you or caused you pain I am so so sorry. I was wrong. Thank you Father for your grace and forgiveness and your everlasting love. Father I thank you for the Holy Spirit convicting me of these things and to share my love for you with the world, All the glory to you. In Jesus wonderful name I pray, And you all said, Amen.
Maybe this has already been addressed and I’m coming late to the game but
1. Who controls the money at the church ?
2. Who owns the church
3. Who owns Walk In the Word
4. Even though the elders fired the pastor does the pastor get a golden parachute ?
5. Does the fired pastor own his own home etc
Very disappointing .
No, it is not equally wrong to expose evil as to perpetrate evil. That is a lazy notion at best. Scripture says to speak the truth in love.
Maybe we should start asking what Julie’s getting paid for all of these continuing articles and interviews. I don’t appreciate elevating a crude talking shock jock whose fruit is questionable. Aren’t we all sinners saved by grace? The affect this continued obsession has on the name of Christ is absolutely devastating. The unbelievers, skeptics and church prosecutors have more and more justification for their beliefs. Enough already. How about giving your testimony and sharing the gospel on the radio or on the blog.
Daughter of the King…..you’re among the few deceived enough to think Julie Roys is reporting for *the money*?!?! Then you’ve missed the entire point!
And then what do you do with all the others who have reported and investigated, as well? (Do a quick Web search.)
I’m pretty sure Julie is paid a tenth of what James MacDonald was paid. So if you are interested in following the money, please follow the big money.
Julie Roys is also a daughter of the King. As am I.
Please take several seats.
Its SO not over! Did you see this from Anne’s parents?
Elephant Room of 2012 was only an antechamber to the wolves den of 2018….
Keep it up mancow!
Anne Green’s husband was fired because he was a pretty evil man himself and a man who had just been hired to Harvest fired him because he said, “there was no place for him.” Rob Green was worse than James so whatever can be said of James you can put in on Rob (Anne’s husband). I have met Anne many times and her story doesn’t match up and sounds rather shady. No evidence, no one witnessed anything, she didn’t do anything or quit. I would assume that she is just getting revenge because they fired her crooked husband and she is getting attention. She always did love attention.
Also, don’t forget to consider that ANY/ALL leaders who stayed at Harvest when all this was happening did so for dishonest gain. If a church has fallen this far, it did not happen overnight. This has been going on a long long time. I’m not saying that he didn’t do it but I am saying that if she didn’t say anything in 2005 there was a reason and if she is conveniently speaking up now there’s also a reason. Let’s not be foolish anymore!
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