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Reporting the Truth.
Restoring the Church.

Three Harvest Staff Do Not Confirm Sexual Abuse Claim Against James MacDonald, but Others Indicate Alleged Incident Was Well-Known

By Julie Roys
James MacDonald Harvest

UPDATE: Sandy Song has written a response to this article, which is posted with permission at the bottom of this page.

Three staff at Harvest Bible Chapel are not confirming an account by a former Harvest worship leader that founding Pastor James MacDonald, who was fired from the church last week, touched her inappropriately while on a private jet in 2005. However, former staff who served on the worship ministry at the time of the alleged incident, say the story was well known among worship leaders, and expressed surprise that their former colleagues are denying it.

On Monday morning, former worship leader, Anne Green, appeared on Mancow Muller’s Chicago radio show and accused MacDonald of snuggling up to her on a jet that MacDonald shared with Bill Hybels. (Hybels is the founder of Willow Creek Community Church and recently resigned amid allegations of sexual harassment.) Green said that mid-flight, MacDonald put his hand on her upper thigh near her crotch. She said she then exclaimed, “You can’t touch me there!” And MacDonald reportedly laughed and joked about Green taking down his ministry.

[pullquote]”(A)ll of them stated that ‘they did not recall seeing or hearing anything suspicious or inappropriate.'”[/pullquote]Monday evening, Harvest posted a response to the allegation on the church’s website, saying that the church had first heard about the alleged incident in September 2018. Harvest said it then interviewed three other passengers who were on the flight with Green and MacDonald. And all of them stated that “they did not recall seeing or hearing anything suspicious or inappropriate.”

This is what I expected Harvest to say because that’s how the church responded to me months ago when I alerted them to Green’s story. In late September, I interviewed Green, and soon after, sent an email to Sandy Song—a staff member at Harvest whom Green said was on the plane with her and James in 2005. Also on that flight was Harvest Executive Pastor Trei Tatum, as well as Harvest worship leader Andi Rozier.

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At the time, Song declined to interview with me, but after a few days sent me an email with written statements from herself, Tatum, and Rozier. In her email, she urged me to “consider these statements and not publish.”

Song also asked if we could meet in person to discuss. This was mentioned in a lawsuit Harvest filed against me about two weeks after our email exchange. I replied that I thought the statements were sufficient and didn’t see a need to meet. This was then characterized in the lawsuit as I “refused to meet” with Song.

In their statements, Song and Rozier confirmed that three people were sitting on a bench seat at the back of the plane during the flight. MacDonald was sitting in the middle of the bench with Green on one side. According to Rozier, either Tatum or Song were sitting on the other side of MacDonald. Song said she believes she was sitting in a single seat facing the back bench. Rozier said he was sitting in a single seat facing the back bench, as well.

[pullquote]”Green said she felt very confused by what had happened. ‘I was like a deer in headlights. I was like, ‘What in the world?’”[/pullquote]According to Green, the team was on its way back from a day-trip to California when the alleged incident happened. She said it was dark on the plane and MacDonald leaned against her and put his head on her shoulder. Then, she said he reached his arm across his body and placed his hand on her upper thigh near her crotch with his fingers extending to the inside of her leg. She then protested loudly, and MacDonald reportedly pulled back his hand.

Green said she felt very confused by what had happened. “I was like a deer in headlights,” she said. “I was like, ‘What in the world?’”

Green said the ride was “very quiet,” so she’s quite sure others on the plane heard the interaction. She added that she could hear people giggling when it happened too.

However, according to Song, the flight was loud and they experienced some turbulence. She added that she didn’t witness “any inappropriate behavior,” but recently added, “It’s possible for it to have happened and me not to have witnessed it.”

Similarly, Tatum wrote, “I have no memory of anything inappropriate happening nor was I aware of anything happening during the flight.” Likewise Rozier wrote, “James fell asleep pretty quickly. He was next to Anne but I have no memory of any incident of any kind.”

Green said she was very surprised that all three claimed to have no memory of the incident. She said the day after the plane trip, she had to lead worship at church. Green said as she stood on stage before worship, Rozier approached her and asked her if she was okay. She said she responded by shaking her head and saying, “I don’t really know,” and Rozier told her that she could do this.

[pullquote]”The general m.o. was protect James at all cost. Protect James. Protect the church.”[/pullquote]Matt Stowell, who was on staff at Harvest as a worship leader from 1998-2008, said he was surprised to hear that Rozier claimed not to know about the incident with Green. He said, “At some point, I think most of the leadership in worship at Harvest had become aware of it.”

Green said the only person she talked to about the alleged incident until her family left Harvest in 2010 was her husband Rob. At the time, Rob was employed as director of assimilation. Both said they’re stunned now that they didn’t report what had happened. But they said at the time, they were caught in a very controlling and spiritually abusive environment that taught them never to question MacDonald’s actions.

Stowell described Green and MacDonald as “polar opposites.” He said Green was “someone who exhibited Christian moral character over a long period of time” but MacDonald was someone who “very rarely showed the same things.” Stowell added that he believes Green “110-percent—as much as you can believe somebody.”

When asked if it’s consistent for employees to cover for MacDonald, Stowell said, “Oh yes—100 percent. The general m.o. was protect James at all cost. Protect James. Protect the church.”

Just this week, Steve Johnson, who worked as the director of sound and audio production at Harvest from 2003-2010, told me a similar account. He said Matthew Westerholm, a worship leader at Harvest from 1998-2008, told him about what had happened to Green sometime before 2008.

Johnson said Westerholm said that James had inappropriately touched Green’s leg when the two were on a small jet. Johnson said Westerholm expressed disappointment that a pastor would do something like that.

I contacted Westerholm this week about Johnson’s account, but he would not talk to me on the record.

This was the second time I had contacted Westerholm about the alleged incident with Green. I initially contacted him in September because Green at first thought Westerholm had been on the plane when the alleged incident occurred. Westerholm said he hadn’t, and Green said she may have remembered that detail incorrectly.

The day after I first emailed Westerholm, Harvest posted an elder update to its website with a response to the #MeToo movement. Westerholm later told me he had discussed my initial email with a friend at Harvest.

Radio host Mancow Muller said he heard about the alleged incident with Green completely independent of the church. He said he had heard about it from Howard Seedorf, owner of the company that leased the jet to MacDonald.

Muller, who attended Harvest the past couple years, said when he asked MacDonald about it, MacDonald laughed and said that he had brushed up against Green because of turbulence. Muller said MacDonald alleged that Green had overreacted because she was a holy-holy type.

A Pattern Of Control and Violated Boundaries

According to Green, the incident on the plane was the culmination of many years of inordinate attention from MacDonald, multiple boundary crossings, and control.

Green said she came to the church in 1997 soon after getting divorced and feeling very broken. And initially, she found healing and biblical direction at the church. After six months, she joined the worship team and then became the first woman to lead worship there.

Green said she also soon became one of MacDonald’s favorites. “He would tell everybody, I was like his sister,” she said. “And he would rub my head, or put his hand on my hair, or pull it – nothing too crazy. . . . But I also felt like he was playing a role almost like my dad sometimes, because he took such an interest in me.”

[pullquote]“At the time, Green said, this attention to personal detail felt normal because she had become accustomed to the fact that ‘James likes to have his hands in everything.’ But looking back, she said it wasn’t normal.”[/pullquote]Green said MacDonald would often compliment her on her makeup or clothes and use her as an example to the rest of the worship team of how they should look on stage. At the time, Green said, this attention to personal detail felt normal because she had become accustomed to the fact that “James likes to have his hands in everything.” But looking back, she said it wasn’t normal.

Green said MacDonald also took an interest in her dating life. When Anne’s husband Rob wanted to date her, she said he went to MacDonald to ask for permission. Anne says MacDonald divulged personal details to Rob about Anne’s past without her permission. He also told Rob that Anne had vowed not to date for six months, and told him that until that period had expired, he was not allowed to even call Anne.

When Rob and Anne announced their intent to get married, Anne said MacDonald dictated the pre-marital class the two were to attend and told the couple what month they would get married. Anne’s husband, Rob, said that at the time, both he and Anne were “drinking the Kool-Aid” so they did precisely as MacDonald directed.

Anne said that after she was married, MacDonald still tried to be the person with primary influence in her life and would undermine her husband’s authority. For example, during this time, she said MacDonald gave her a $500 Ann Taylor gift card and instructed her not to let Rob tell her how to spend it.

However, Anne said the biggest boundary crossing came in 2005 when MacDonald touched her on the plane. After the alleged incident with MacDonald, Anne said she pulled back from the worship ministry, and from MacDonald.

[pullquote]“By that time, I was filled with too much shame to even push James away . . That was one of the last moments I spent with him.”[/pullquote]She said she felt deep shame over what had happened. The shame was so profound that she said she didn’t even protest when on another occasion, MacDonald gushed about her in front of two pastors and ran his finger up and down her leg and side. “By that time, I was filled with too much shame to even push James away,” she said. “That was one of the last moments I spent with him.”

Rob Green said these two pastors reached out to him this week after hearing Anne’s story. I then reached out to these pastors, who said they’re in the process of drafting a response but didn’t want to speak on the record at this time.

Anne said she and Rob saw many incidents over the years that made them question MacDonald’s character. But she said it wasn’t until Rob was fired in 2009, soon after asking MacDonald why so many good people had left the church, that the two really began to see the church’s dysfunction. Anne said she began to wonder, “Who are we following—James or Jesus?”

The couple left the church in 2009 and now live in Colorado. Anne said she decided to speak up now because God gave her the courage “to fight for my freedom and the freedom of others who were abused.”

On February 23, Sandy Song posted the following to her Facebook Page and gave me permission to repost here:

I have largely stayed off of social media in the past few years.  I wish I could post today about a vacation that I was on or some good food I was enjoying.  However, recent events have forced me to have to speak publicly about what has been happening at Harvest Bible Chapel.  First of all, I need to say that I love Anne Green and am heartbroken over the fact that she has suffered in silence for all these years.  Inappropriate behavior like this is awful and should be dealt with swiftly and seriously.  In 2005, we were a small worship staff and a very tight-knit group.  I sincerely wish that Rob or Anne would have talked to me about what happened at some point in time.  I pray that if there are others who have been abused by James, that this will open the door for them to step forward and tell their truth and find healing.  We are not trying to negate Anne’s story in any way, but just as people accuse us of lying to cover up for James, we also cannot compromise our integrity and lie for Anne and claim to have seen or heard things that we simply didn’t.  

Given that this incident took place in 2005, I am perfectly willing to admit that I don’t remember things clearly.  I barely remember the plane ride or the event that we sang at.  I know that this was a late-night flight after a long day of ministry.  I can’t say this for certain, but it is very possible I got on the plane, put in headphones and fell asleep as I routinely do on almost every flight I take. The first that I had heard about this incident was in September 2018 when I was first contacted by Julie Roys.  The accusation took me by surprise because I had never heard this story before.  Julie contacted me a few times via email and I did not want to speak to her over the phone because I knew I had nothing to say about this incident.  In her email, she asked me questions about what I had seen and I simply told her I didn’t recall anything.  Trei, Andi and I wrote separate statements about our recollections of that plane ride and then sent them to Julie.  Given the fact that my memories are unclear, I have asked around to other people to see if they ever heard me talk about this story or if anyone had suspected at that period of time that Anne had been abused by James.  Again, I want to make clear that I am not trying to say it didn’t happen, but at that time, no one was aware of any type of abuse taking place.  I moved to China in 2006 which could explain why I never even knew about the story at all.  I have since found out that some people had heard of this incident after the fact, but in a way that led them to believe it was an awkward accident, not sexual abuse. Maybe they were manipulated because this was how the story was presented to them, but those people don’t remember who they heard the story from or when, so it is impossible to know. 

What people are saying about the culture of fear is true.  At the beginning of February, I wrote my own statement to the elders regarding what I had seen over the years in James’ behavior in an effort to validate what so many have been saying.  In 2005, most of us were in our 20s and we did have a fear of making James angry.  However, because we were such a small staff, we often debriefed and supported each other through many difficult moments.  We were not only co-workers, but friends who went through an extremely intense season of ministry together.   We dearly loved and continue to love Anne.  We simply would not have let her suffer alone if we had known the true story of what happened.  I pray that coming forward brings her support and healing.

 

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104 Responses

  1. If/when the “Kool-Aid” ever wears off, it would be fascinating and extremely helpful to get straight answers from those surrounding JM, and an explanation of their mindsets for why they enabled such obvious sin, error, and abuse. Maybe someday we will have answers …

  2. absolutely disgusting. A lot of people follow James over Jesus. Bobble-head Christians. Whatever he said and did was okay and true….

  3. So proud of Anne that she spoke up and is indeed the “holy-holy” type! That’s the best compliment ever!!! I trust the two pastors who were there when James touched her leg the second time do what is right and corroborate her story–sooner rather than later!

    After listening to the recent podcast, it’s obvious that James does not value women or purity. Sandy Song have courage; fear God; stand with Anne!

    1. Unfortunately, this is why I am not happy with the Me Too Movement. As women we know by instinct when a man is making “passes” at us and we know how to and when to stop it if we wish to do so. If we let it go too far before reacting, I generally find that these women are partially at fault by playing along in these situations or what planet are they from? Give me a break!

          1. It is not particularly unusual for a boss to give an occasional little gift to a subordinate. In a case where the boss does everything in a big way financially (including living in a mansion) the notion that a $500 gift certificate should have necessarily raised a red flag is not very persuasive.

      1. Didn’t you even read her account? She wasn’t just “playing along,” the incident on the plane came after years of manipulative control under circumstances where any criticism of MacDonald was not tolerated. If you did, you lost your job and everything that went with it.

        Opinions like yours is precisely why the #MeToo Movement was needed in the first place. It takes a lot of courage to speak out about sexual harassment and abuse in the face of detractors and enablers like you. And remember this — Green didn’t “play along”, she forcefully objected to MacDonald’s behavior, and yet it *still* took 13 years before there were any repercussions, at all.

        1. I guess many of you consider Billy Graham 1930’s and old-fashioned but this is what he said. ” I refuse to be alone with any woman so that the cause of Christ would not suffer by scandal.” He understood the danger and many Christian men ad women have not heeded his example. Don’t put yourselves in situations and then called them sexual harassment.

          1. So ministering on a church trip with other church staff members and sitting on the plane minding her own business was “putting herself in situations”? She says that the pastor came and sat next to her and inappropriately touched her. It is beyond belief that anybody would consider that somehow her fault.

          2. Sarah Renta—-you missed a lot of facts in that post—-AND you continue to blame the victim. Unconscionable!!!!

      2. Sarah,
        Many, many women have not learned how to rebuff a surprise advance, especially from someone trusted. We are not partially to blame. Sometimes things happen so fast and so weirdly that we don’t even realize what happened until later. We freeze, or laugh, or shrug it off- anything to make the moment pass. We do need to teach each other and our daughters how to strongly react (as Anne did) in these extremely uncomfortable situations. Anne stood up for herself in the moment. What she (and others) did or did not do afterwards is a complicated issue.

        Please reconsider blaming women for what is completely not their fault.

        God bless.

  4. This just makes me so sad!! It’s so wrong. Thank you for speaking about it now. I hope you feel believed and a growing sense of freedom.
    Shame on anyone who lied about it. There’s no way Andi remembers James fell asleep quickly but doesn’t remember that. I call BS.

  5. Thank you Anne for your courage to speak against this false pastor and share your story. I can’t imagine how you felt and I am so sorry this happened. When the Elephants debt first came out, I was not sure what was true and if Harvest was attacked wrongfully as James stated. All the pastors and flock leaders instructed people not to listen to this outside criticism. We stayed cautiously and thought James is human and deserves to be forgiven if there were any misunderstandings. It saddens me greatly to know of Anne’s story and many others that have come to light which have exposed so much hypocrisy and abuse. I am shocked to learn the evil behind the curtain was greater than I could have imagined. Thank you Lord that you are true and care for your church! I pray daily for all those affected by this atrocity.

  6. Most people on the staff of most church organizations follow the lead and direction of the Pastor as he has the “know” and the influence. Even though the Baptist system is supposed to be run by the members, the membership either does not know or care enough to get engaged and are happy enough to allow the leadership, notably the pastor to “run the show” so most church issues never get to the membership. They assume that the elders are godly men doing their work faithfully when often that is not the case.
    The membership, although they pledge allegience to the church, know that if they don’t like what is going on that they can try to deal with the situation at potential personal and spirtual cost to them or they can say nothing and leave. It is easier and safer to leave so that is what most people do. (Lev.19:17)
    And so the sin goes on.

  7. Was Matt Westerholm’s friend at Harvest his brother Josh who is/was an elder at Harvest? Or did the friend talk to Josh? Hmm. That might explain the elder update only 1 day later. I wish they’d take a stand against the corruption and for truth for the sake of Christ and the Church. People have been hurt.
    Their dad used to be a Pastor in Chicago.

    1. I’m told that Matt Westerholm and Josh Westerholm are brothers. Notably, Josh was one of the Elders whose name did not appear on the Dec 18th statement of “unconditional support” for James MacDonald. It would be helpful for Josh and Matt to speak publicly.

    2. It’s time for inuendos and accusations to stop. If there is truth in all this talk, lawsuits need to be filed and truth brought out in court. People need to sware on a Bible to the truth and leave the consequences up to God.

      1. Are you one of these people who claim that rape victims should shut up unless they file charges, even if the rape happened years ago and there were no witnesses, and there’s no chance of a prosecution?

        Truth isn’t just found in a court of law you know, and the behavior of a pastor even doesn’t have to be illegal for it to be grossly inappropriate and worthy of dismissal.

        And if you think swearing on the Bible in court will prevent liars from telling lies, you are incredibly naive.

  8. I believe Anne and I am praying that others will summon even half the integrity and strength she has displayed in speaking their story and/or affirming the truth of what she and others reveal.

  9. So a man leads one of the largest ministries in the world with a massive staff, he travels and interacts with thousands of people through his speaking engagements, and after over thirty years one person comes forward with an accusation with not one single supporting witness and it makes it way to this blog? Julie I am disappointed. I would expect this in today’s political climate as in the Jusse S. case where the media rushed to judgment, but not among Christians.
    Do we really believe a man would make a sexual advancement on a woman with multiple people sitting inches away?

    1. Brian…you’ve missed the facts, apparently:

      1. Julie Roys said she did not publish this when she first learned about it, but waited for corroborating witnesses:

      2. Please reread today’s post—it clearly states that this incident is known to MANY people.

      1. Then stop the talking (slander?) and sware on the Bible that you are telling the truth under oath. I was in a church once that did this and destroyed a Pastor, a church and their witness in the community to which they have not really recovered. Was the Pastor guilty of some charachter defects? Yes, he was. Were some of his children out of order? Yes, one definitely was. Was the slander and hate heaped on him by the Christians in the church deserving? No. Time has shown he was not the wicked, evil person he was made out to be. Time to put up or shut up.

    2. I kind of agree. Stuff like this is getting close to the third rail of muckraking. I understand that Ms. Roys is repeating what the lady told the shock jock Mancow, but reporting an unscrupulously supported accusation, especially a potentially criminal one, is unfair. People need to be careful when make damning public comments about another’s reputation. I am not defending the former pastor for his alleged misdeeds but I encourage his critics to speak with grace not gossip.

      1. (a) It’s not criminal. Not even remotely. Even a lawsuit based on that incident alone would be unlikely to succeed at this point.

        (b) It’s not gossip when the primary witness to the incident is the one who’s saying it.

        (c) Julie has corroborated the incident with at least two other independent sources, establishing that it was discussed soon after it happened. While the precise nature of the incident is disputed, the fact that something happened on the plane that upset Anne greatly is not.

        (d) Unfair? Give me a break. At this point, there is very little that could be said about JM that would be unfair after decades of bad behavior. It’s becoming very clear that we haven’t even begun to hear the end of this.

      2. I was extremely careful in reporting this. As I mentioned, I had interviewed Anne months ago, as well as other witnesses. I was still gathering evidence when this story went public. At that point, I felt an obligation to publish the testimony I had. After all, Leviticus 5:1 says, “”If anyone sins because they do not speak up when they hear a public charge to testify regarding something they have seen or learned about, they will be held responsible.”

    3. Brian – Re: “Do we really believe a man would make a sexual advancement on a woman with multiple people sitting inches away?” Yes I do. Happens all the time. The goal didn’t have to be sex per se at that time. Have you read about sexual predators? Do you know how they operate?

      There’s never just one victim. Stay tuned.

      1. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. He believed he could do anything because he could do anything. Reminds one of grabbing women by the kitty or shooting someone on 5th Ave.

    4. Brian, Why did other women not come forward? How did Harvey Weinstein, Bill Cosby, Les Moonves, Matt Lauer, Bill Hybel and others get away with it for so long? Why did other men (Pastoral staff, elders and biological sons) not come forward with JMac’s worldly behaviors (money, fame and power) in 30 + years? Fear, timidity, job security, cowardliness, indifference, etc. This is not a rush to judgement. TED started on October 2012 and no one was listening. Now after seven years, these stories are propagating like rabbits. Would JMac make a pass in front of others? He likes the attention and be in front of an audience .

      1. Before TED, there was Bloodstained Ink. And lots of us were listening. Just not elders or leaders that could affect change at HBC at that time. We are grateful that we have had TED for all these years to provide info, open eyes, and give us a platform to process the sin that we were seeing in the HBC leadership.

    5. Yes. It happens all the time. If you believe otherwise, you’re just fooling yourself.

      As it is, it’s not even the harassment that’s the major problem anymore. It’s the continued and willful cover up that followed, and the number of leaders at the church who were complicit in the aggressive attempt to silence anyone who objected.

    6. As a married man Pastor James has absolutely no business putting his head on Ann’s shoulder and snuggling up to her. Pastor Rick told us a married man should not even ride in a car alone with a woman who is not his wife because of the appearance that some people may think a relationship exists or something might develop so do not put yourself in a situation that can make you look bad. As a Pastor James is held to a higher standard. Newsflash: Hug your wife and leave other women alone! I think Pastor James used poor judgement at best. James has the Bible in his head but he does not seem to have the Bible in his heart. I am very sad and greatly disappointed with James because I learned a lot about the Bible from him and met so many friends at Harvest. I am personally disgusted by James sins and have to reflect on how my many sins have disgusted Jesus over my life. I pray that James would restore his relationship with the Lord.

  10. This again should prove as a cautionary story to those training for ministry. Keep yourself submitted to the Lord through accountability. Simul iustus et peccator rings true, but without our pursuit of Christ it is all incurvata en se. Pride plus power equals nothing good.

  11. Brian said: “Do we really believe a man would make a sexual advancement on a woman with multiple people sitting inches away?”

    YES.

    I totally believe Anne. This kind of thing happened to me several times when I was a teenager and also as a young adult woman. The public aspect of the assault is the extra thrill for the perpetrator. Right under the noses of others, or with others actually witnessing it and ignoring it. It is a demonstration of the perp’s power, he is controlling and abusing everyone present, and it is a celebration of his own invincibility.

    A couple of times I was able to resist and fight the guy off, but a couple of times I went into shock and froze up, unable to stand up for myself. So I believe Anne’s descriptions of the various abuses and her responses. This kind of abuse is extremely humiliating. I personally still have emotional scars from my experiences (decades later) and I have a lot of empathy for what Anne endured.

  12. I knew both Anne and Sandy while we were all at Harvest together. I believe both of them. Sandy is of the same moral fiber as Anne and would not deny if something like this happened if she knew about it. I know many, many people were overworked to the point of exhaustion during my time there. It was nothing to see staff in tears as they had to complete work late into the night and were still expected to be back at the church first thing in the morning. I am not making excuses by saying this but I know utter exhaustion can cause you to overlook and maybe even misinterpret your surroundings. Some were on survival mode just trying to get their heavy workload completed. I loved these people. Still do.

    1. So what you’re saying is that Anne could have been extremely exhausted as well and mis-remembering the facts…as in who was actually on the plane or that there was turbulence or that James is just not a creep? She placed Matt Westerholm on the plane also and had to walk that detail back…how many other details would she have to walk back or remember correctly? How quickly did the liberal media jump onto the accuser’s story in Brett Kavanaugh’s case and insist she was right, and where is she now? Dropped like a bad habit. Anne, the same will happen to you by Julie and Mancow. You’re all out to just destroy James and Harvest and NOW is the right time to come forward with your story? Really? See how dangerous this game can be that Julie is playing? She won’t go on record anymore until after the shock jock puts it out into the public domain and then Ms Julie Roys will come swooping in with her “seeking truth” angle so that she can claim “journalistic integrity” – what an absolute sham!

      You all are attacking and claiming James is a horrible person (btw, I don’t disagree – he’s not a victim and has caused pain on so many levels…he and his sons needed to go, and I am utterly disappointed in his ongoing silence)…but to label him a sexual predator after 30 years of ministry is wrong and dangerous. Yes, you may have gotten a few people to corroborate the story somehow but do they all have it in for James like you do – similar to the “witnesses” in the Kavanaugh case? This is likely, and I would then question your corroborating witnesses. How quickly do you dismiss Andi, Sandy and Trei’s statements – but as long as someone there agrees with Anne’s version, those are the witnesses we should believe!? Are you kidding me? The people on the plane denied this happened and you go with the few gossipers?? And now to drag Andi, Sandy and Trei through the mud as well! How amazingly careless. But, Julie will continue to write these dirty articles so that she can keep her name right up there with Mancow’s and claim legitimacy in the Christian, and now secular, media. See through this people! She is out to destroy the evangelical church as a whole and James MacDonald in particular. It is crystal clear to me and many others. Look how quickly she jumped on the bandwagon of Mark Banaszak who wrote a letter to the elder board…you all that don’t know Mark…I know Mark…he is a clown. He wrote that letter on his own and has zero integrity. He can string together some words but that man is a cancer. And, just because he aligns with your propaganda and perspective you now are seeing twitter hashtags with “Mark For Elder Board Chairman” – I didn’t realize this was a popularity contest for those who only agree with your viewpoint.

      Hey Julie, quick question – how are book sales going now? Also must be nice getting a slot on AM radio again after Moody fired you?

      1. For the record, I followed the Kavanaugh hearings very closely and did not find his accusers credible (which is NOT an invitation to discuss my perspective re: that case on this comment board).

        You sound very upset–at Julie, Anne, & Mark Banaszak for sure. I’m #honored and #blessed by your creative choice of name, which I take as reference to me. :)

        I’m happy to screenshot these comments and post them on Twitter so that you can get some responses from ppl in a more timely fashion.

        Take care.

        1. Jessica Hockett…You have become completely consumed with this story in a way that has many questioning the state of your mental health. You have THOUSANDS of posts about this situation. I actually feel sorry for your husband and children. You are clearly at a tipping point and I hope that other people who are witnessing your so-called “diligence to get the truth out” are willing to step up and let you know that you have gone over the deep end. Your behavior is manic and fanatical and you really should consider seeking mental help. Your preoccupation with this situation is not normal by any means.

          1. I can’t thank Jessica Hockett enough for her tenacity for truth! It’s God given “sir”. Aside from that the fact that my moms good trust in Harvest was used to scorch something dear to her heart (one of thousands of reasons by the way God has given Jessica and others the truth annointing) so I will remain eternally grateful to Jessica Hockette. Kinda creepy by the way you are that focused on her work!

          2. People undoubtedly looked at John the Baptist too as fanatical in his day. Yet if you read the Bible, you would know what Jesus said about John the Baptist. Jesus honored the prophet with these words: “Truly I tell you, among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist” (Matthew 11:11a).

            If Jessica Hockett is fanatical… for the Lord, and insulted on the account of His name, how great will her reward be in Heaven.

            The Scriptures say, “But rejoice inasmuch as you participate in the sufferings of Christ, so that you may be overjoyed when his glory is revealed. If you are insulted because of the name of Christ, you are blessed, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests on you. If you suffer, it should not be as a murderer or thief or any other kind of criminal, or even as a meddler. However, if you suffer as a Christian, do not be ashamed, but praise God that you bear that name.” (1 Peter 4:12-16).

            Mike Medow
            Another Fool for Christ

        2. Who’ obsessing? Jessica Hockett is working hard for the glory of God to bring reform and transformation. She is guided by the Spirit of truth. Her information she researches and shares is factual and on target and like a repeated bullet firing away chipping down a cement wall of lies, deceit and evil. The fact you are mocking her name in your titles shows your the one obsessing. Her work has gotten under your skin because it is breaking down the demonic stronghold in the Chicagoland area.
          I don’t know you might even be James Macdonald Himself responding. Sounds a lot like how he talks about Julie Roys ?

      2. Lady Jessica, I don’t know who you are. Perhaps you would consider posting under your real name. I was Anne’s pastor from the time she left Harvest until she moved out-of-state. Now that this matter has become public knowledge, I can share that she told me this story of the plane ride years ago, long before Julie Roys was researching her article, and even before The Elephant’s Debt website was launched. Anne asked me to keep it confidential, because it was so personal and traumatic. I honored that request. I believed Anne then, and I believe her now. James MacDonald has not–to my knowledge–denied that contact occurred; instead he blamed it on turbulence. I’ve been on plane rides with turbulence. My right hand did not end up in the lap of the person seated to my left. Anne is a godly woman. Her testimony is credible. It grieves me that someone who apparently does not know her would charge her with malicious motives. David Jones

        1. So right on in your assessment. The best lie is one that contains SOME truth. “I touched her, but it was only because…”
          The same tactics applied by satan.
          I can “hear” Anne Green making the statement “You can’t touch me there!” It would be loud and forceful.
          Anne is truthful and the truth flows out of her without even thinking. That’s who she is. Sometimes it can be funny. In this case it was dead serious and should be taken as so.

      3. So James – you really think that after hearing all that you’ve said in your own words on those tapes that you have any credibility left? Once again, no humility, no sense of brokenness, concern for Anne or the trauma you caused by your abusive over lording. Sure, you can throw down the Kavanaugh comments by convenience as another ploy to distract from the facts of who you really are…a predator with no remorse.

      4. I hear you Lady Jessicas Clown Car. I really respected Julie for many years but now is it really her place to continually try and take down Moody …and now Pastor James and Harvest? We get it. Repentance needs to happen. He was about to retire. Good grief. And all of us are grieving as a church. My goodness this is like making a list over and over of someones possible sins and having everyone come stoning. We got it. Pastor James and his family are gone. Are you all happy the truth is out? What are you going to do next talk about drinking and gambling and swearing and cheating and …. Please stop!! This is so hurtful to hear from other Christians. And please stop saying people who go there are this way or that. So hurtful and judgmental. The best way for me to move on is stop listening to this garbage. And as far as Mancow. Shame on him for airing all these private conversations publicly. You have absolutely no right. And if are tithes weren’t used correctly guess what? God Almighty knows and He will work it all out in the end. When you stand there with him. You want to hear Him say well done. I just don’t know that He will be pleased with this onslaught and say well done. Be careful.

        1. Not nearly as hurtful as the widow on a fixed income who gave her entire closer campaign money upfront. God will keep having the stories told ever and more revealed until all feel the gravity of sin is fully known by all.

        2. Shocked, you are wrong in
          condemning Julie Roys. She is exposing the full and complete story. It is not single incident but a behavior that expands to all areas that has gone unchecked and hidden for a very long time. God will build His church and if it crumbles, you are blaming the wrong person. It is the Mac clan and his hetchmen. Give them their due credit and the 42 million dollars debt he has bestowed upon the membership, not Julie Roys.

      5. No. I was expressing two separate thoughts. 1) I believe Anne and what she says that JMac did. I also believe Sandy did not observe or notice what was happening. I cannot imagine her denying this if she saw it. 2) I know that the culture of Harvest during this time was sheer work overload. Sandy was exhausted yet I saw her as one who maintained a close walk with the Lord and acted with grace and godliness. Others didn’t maintain their composure or fulfill their duties as well. I will leave it at that.

      6. Lady Jessica’s clown car – they didn’t deny it. They said they couldn’t confirm it happened, and others state that the incident was well known around Harvest. There’s a big difference there.

      7. Your comment about book sales is disgusting and laughable. When I blew the whistle on Moody, and now Harvest, I knew the conference speaking engagements and book interviews would be canceled — and they were. That’s what drives sales, not unrelated investigative reporting. You either have no clue how the industry works, or your just throwing mud, or both.

      8. Your personal rambling on Julie Roy are immature, senseless and uncalled for. You wish to attack the messenger rather than understanding what the articles wish to convey. Please read her articles on MBI and educate yourself before you make rash judgement on her dismissal for exposing the truth. A similar pattern where compromise and the world has taken a foothold in the Bible institute. Million dollar condo purchase, downsizing and layoffs, acceptance in gambling behavior, theological tangets and more. May you be so kind to take the time to read her articles prior to making any irrational comments. Unsure if her articles are in audio form to make it easier for you to comprehend. Thank you in advance.

      9. Mark Banaszak has a lot more integrity than you do, James. Your screen name, Lady Jessica’s Clown Car, didn’t fool anyone. It shows your low level of maturity. For your information, Mark was representing a large group of Harvest men when he wrote that letter. Men that are willing to stand up and save the Church that you and your followers used as your personal ATM. You are arrogant, abrasive, rude, childish, and lack humility. Act Like Men was just a slogan to you. Try living it. Personal attacks, ridicule, condescension, greed; are those the attributes that you want to be remembered for? Referring to Mark as a cancer? A clown? Just because the letter hit the bullseye? Why didn’t you stay true to form and call him a poopyhead? You’re a 6’4” child in a leather vest. It’s time to act like a man and admit your sins.

  13. Evangelicalism does not have a structure like pope, cardinals, and bishops, but evangelicalism has its own stars. Once the good old boys in the evangelical world think that somebody is a star he is treated as one of the good old boys himself and, sadly, can get away with a lot. There is no way that Jesus Christ is pleased with this stuff. Pride, sexism, and self-absorbed treating of people as things rather than as people created in the image of God are not Christian virtues.

  14. Jessica, Julie Roys wrote in the article, “the story was well known.” Since one person, Anne, says the event occurred that would mean Anne must have told other people. Please understand I have no desire to argue and I have no friendship with James MacDonald that would require me to defend him. However, is everyone unwilling to see that Mancow may possibly be a man inclined to sin like the rest of us, and that quite possibly his flesh may love that his little AM station radio show is now getting national attention. Is it possible that others are writing vindictively at this point because of things James M. said about them? Are the people who continue the media assault on James not subject to temptation and sin? I am confused. He has now been removed, his sons who were not responsible for his actions have resigned the only church they had ever known. Why continue being so aggressive?

    1. Hi Brian.

      First, what does Mancow have to do with whether James MacDonald intentionally touched Anne Green inappropriately on a private plane?

      Do you want the full truth about HBC and James to come into the light, or no? If not, we’re probably going to disagree about a host of things regarding Mr. Muller, Ms. Roys, etc. What you see as a “media assault” on James & Co., I see as God’s way of shining a very bright light on things that have long been hidden in darkness.

      Can you clarify re: Luke & Landon: are you contending that they are innocent bystanders? I agree that HBC is the only church they’ve ever known, which is unfortunate in light of all that we are finding out.

      Finally, how many women (& men) would you need to hear from in order to be convinced that Anne Green was not an isolated incident, and that James MacDonald’s “patterns of sin” include sexual improprieties?

      1. Jessica, (The real Jessica) I have been reading this blog for a little bit now. Things are getting kind of Orwellian. War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, and now the Harvest Management Team’s own contribution to 1984- Truth is Slander.

        I want you to know that when Jesus was in the desert He rebuked Satan with scripture and this is what I want to say to you: Matt 5:6 The spin is getting more intense because they know what they have done and are trying to stop the truth from coming out. They are more than desperate at this time because they have always been able to control the narrative and they know exactly what they have done. The stakes are high.

        I see that you handle their disparaging remarks pretty well but please read this: Matt 5:11-13 Who is obsessing with whom? Counting your posts? Look at the times they post, one right after another within a few minutes. One of the most effective ways to try to marginalize someone is to suggest that they are mentally ill. And if that be true as suggested, that people here are “broken” then my question is how did they get that way?

        I’ll tell you one of my experiences. I sent my daughter to a summer camp that was ADVERTISED as a Christian camp. Cost a pretty penny too. At this camp my daughter was given an education by one of the youth ‘pastors’ that she’ll never forget and neither will I. This so called youth ‘pastor’ then laughed at and mocked those involved in his cruel joke. But I don’t think that the statute of limitations ever runs out on these matters. I should be thanked for the restraint that I have shown. Heb 10:31

    2. Brian, I am sorry that L and L had to leave the only church they have ever known…so did my kids when I dared to bring many of these same issues to light back in 2006-2012

    3. Brian, yes we are all sinners and need of forgiveness. Yet where are Pope James and Cardinal Landon and Luke to come forth to repent or deny these claims and defend the MacDonald name and legacy?

  15. Brian, the truth does need to be presented in a spirit of humility. Galatians 6:1  “Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted.” There can be no restoration until there is an admission of wrong that has been done. So far, that hasn’t occurred to my knowledge.

    It appears to me that Julie has been very careful in verifying her information. Why is it necessary to continue to expose wrong doing? Paul writes, 1 Timothy 5:19-20  “Do not admit a charge against an elder except on the evidence of two or three witnesses.  (20)  As for those who persist in sin, rebuke them in the presence of all, so that the rest may stand in fear.”

    This whole situation grieves me for the shame being brought on the Name of Jesus, for those who have been hurt, for the HBC family at large, etc. Healing cannot begin until sin has been exposed and recognized and forgiveness has been sought. The response from the current Naples “leadership” shows how embedded the wrong culture is. This has been going on for over a decade, tragically. Scripture has been twisted (illustration: supporting a lawsuit) to support abuse and fear.

    The result of this should be that all of us go before the Lord in humility to examine ourselves and especially those who are called into leadership of the church (flock) which belongs to Jesus (1 Peter 1:-4).

  16. Those who criticize a victim as if she somehow shares the blame with the perpetrator because she did not react in the way that some outside critic imagines would have been better and those who are critical of a reporter for honest and careful reporting really need to discuss their biases with God.

  17. From Julie’s article I want to quote some impressions I received. ” I was his favorite. He complimented me on how I dressed before others. He gave me a $500 gift card”. Sounds like EGO and stupidity was at play here.

    1. I noticed the same statement and wondered who paid for the $500 gift card…..James or the unending expense account at HBC

  18. Thank you for sharing your story Anne. Your husband was my marriage counselor at Harvest in 2009. He was the only one there who understood and heard me when I told them my then husband was abusive. He was going to confront my husband but was fired the day before. There is much at HBC that needs to change besides just getting rid of James Macdonald. There is a very patriarchal culture there that does not protect women from abusive men.

  19. Sad. I am not sure what is worse the actual acts or the people here posting that they would rather that this all be kept quiet. That is antithetical to Gods character. The truth especially these dark deeds must be exposed. Also James has not apologized or repented and his deeds nor have the elders put him under church discipline or publically rebuked him. An important fact.

  20. Lady Jessica and Shocked you discredit yourself by not using your real name. Thank you Pastor David Jones. I am proud to have you as our pastor at Village Church of Barrington. I stand with you Anne and I 100% believe you. I am saddened and disapointed in Andi, Sandy and Trei. She was the victim here folks.

    1. Carol, no discredit here. Many folks aren’t comfortable leaving their name. It’s a blog and we are merely leaving our opinions. Why criticize my opinion? You don’t have to like what I have to say but please be nice.

  21. I wonder if Lindsay McCaul is ever going to talk about how James MacDonald used to kiss her on the lips? I was a production volunteer and saw this with my own eyes on multiple occasions. There were many witnesses to this I’m sure. I wonder what that was about?!?! Seemed strange at the time and now even stranger.

  22. Jessica Hockett..PLEASE SEEK HELP….You said “enough already.” May I ask where that is in Scripture? Does God say well it’s ok to just expose the one SIN? Nooooo….God says; “For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed.” John 3:20
    “It is not good to be partial to the wicked or to deprive the righteous of justice.” Proverbs 18:5

    SO stop your nonsense and follow God’s Word!

  23. Anne’s account shared here is precisely as she relayed it to me in 2010 after she left Harvest and was still reeling from the incident. It is astounding how one can so callously and cavalierly treat another person, inflicting upon them years of turmoil and pain and act as if it is of no consequence. It’s now been 14 years that she and Rob have had to come to terms with being betrayed by their “pastor.” Anne is not the only one to be abused at the whim of James MacDonald. James loved to push boundaries, create a crisis between people, and watch it play out. Sadly, this game or should I say, reign of terror continues even though he is no longer there. But the truth will continue to come out.

    1. Dear Betsy,

      Bravo.

      Thank you for speaking your Voice and standing beside Anne (and those yet unnamed, but known).

      You and I met back in 2008 and conversed over writing and web sites at ‘Burnt Toast’ in ’09. Not too long after, you seemed to disappear. Hindsight, per Julie Roys’ reporting, I can recognize and appreciate your incredible graciousness during the time we met considering what you knew and how James’ and others were treating you and Dave. I’ve prayed for the two of you many times the past ten-years’ and have wondered how you were doing.

      While I did not know you and your husband personally, my respect for you both is immense.

      Warmly,
      Julie

  24. Based on the few but uncomfortable and inappropriate encounters that I had with James McDonald in my 20 years there, I can testify, I can hundred percent collaborate that Anne Green is not lying!

    1. Yeah. Tons of great facts shared there… “few uncomfortable encounters”. Congrats for piling up on James. Hope it makes you feel good!

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