Disgraced Messianic apologist Michael Brown claimed he’s been the target of a “plot” during a tearful interview online Wednesday with Fort Worth-based Mercy Culture Church Pastor Heather Schott.
Brown called many of the allegations of sexual misconduct against him “lies.”
“There was a plot,” Brown said. “In other words, it wasn’t just someone with the grievance. . . . It’s been hell to live with being called a predator and a groomer.”
In April, a third-party investigation commissioned by the board of Brown’s ministry the Line of Fire concluded Brown had engaged in “sexually abusive misconduct” with former secretary Sarah Monk. Brown was accused of swatting Monk’s rearend, kissing her, holding her hand, and allowing her to sit on his lap. Brown, who now runs the North Carolina-based Line of Fire, was heading up the Fire School of Ministry in Pensacola, Florida at the time of the allegations.
The Firefly report also concluded Brown engaged in an “inappropriate relationship” that included “sexually related communication” with a second woman referred to as “Kim” in the early 2000s. And Firefly determined Brown engaged in a “calculated effort to evade accountability.” Brown disclosed Wednesday the investigation cost $40,000.
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Since then, Brown’s former ministry leaders and friends have called for his resignation. All of Brown’s board has resigned.
The interview
Brown chose a sympathetic ear for his first public interview: “Dr. Michael Brown Tells His Story.” Long-time friend Heather Schott, co-pastor with her husband, Landon, of Mercy Culture Church where Brown is an apostolic elder, conducted the interview on her podcast, “Holy Disruption.”
(While Brown was being investigated, Landon Schott led more than 1,000 people attending a conference in a standing ovation for Brown. Then after the investigation was over in April, Landon and his Mercy Culture Church welcomed Brown back to ministry with confetti.
Schott has also previously called The Roys Report (TRR) founder Julie Roys a “wolf” for publishing an article reporting on Schott calling Mercy Culture’s neighbors “witches” and “warlocks.”)
Heather and two co-hosts used more than an hour of Wednesday’s three-hour-long interview to condemn people who use “witchcraft words” to “gossip” about Brown. Co-host Les Cody, lead pastor of Mercy Culture’s Waco campus, accused podcasters who’ve discussed the allegations and listeners of being narcissists who enjoy watching pastors fall.
Co-host Jaco Booyens, who leads anti-human trafficking Jaco Booyens Ministry, declared that Brown didn’t groom Monk, despite Monk telling TRR Booyens has never interviewed her. Booyens also said a Jezebel spirit is desensitizing the church to believe false accusations to prepare them to be deceived by the antichrist.
“Inside the church, it is gathering members of the body of Christ to ultimately willingly take the mark,” Booyens said.
Heather called people to repentance for treating Brown like Jesus Christ when he was falsely condemned to death.
“When I was praying into this moment, I kept hearing the sounds of the mob, ‘Crucify him, yes crucify him,’” Schott said. “Do you want to go down in history for taking down—screaming ‘Crucify them’—about righteous men and women?”
Schott also said that Brown refused to defend himself until this point but did so now at her urging. (However, Brown has issued four public statements defending himself since TRR first published the allegations. Brown also has attacked whistleblower Ron Cantor, president of Messianic-themed Shelanu TV, behind the scenes in an email to Cantor’s colleagues at Tikkun. Brown wrote that Cantor, who was appealing to Brown’s board to keep Brown accountable, was using “evil speech” to try to “destroy” him.)
Schott also said that emails Monk sent Brown asking for prayer for her family in the years following her abrupt departure from the FIRE is “proof” that Monk was not a victim and her story has changed. Both Schott and Brown said former FIRE employees have “convinced” Monk to believe she’s a victim when she was not.
But whistleblowers are saying Brown is the one who is lying and playing the victim. “Ray” the widower of “Kim,” a woman with whom Brown had an inappropriate relationship, called Brown’s behavior “offensive.”
“I am not surprised that Brown has continued to bend the narrative in very small and calculated increments,” Ray told TRR. “But it is no less disappointing, insulting, and offensive.”
Monk told TRR she left FIRE “broken,” and feeling betrayed by Brown, but didn’t think anyone would believe her over him, so didn’t report him at the time. Also, their father-daughter attachment created a “stronghold” on her for a few years. That’s why she would sometimes reach out asking for prayer during desperate times. She also said Schott and her cohosts didn’t invite her to speak about her experience and yet accuse her of impure motives.
“I have spoken the truth,” she said. “I don’t have anything to gain from this, nothing, except. . . my healing for speaking the truth.”
Brown’s denials
Brown made several denials in his interview with Schott, many of which have been previously refuted by firsthand witnesses or documentation. These include:
- That his inappropriate relationship was “mutual” and on a “peer” level with “Kim.” However, Kim’s widower previously said Brown “manipulated” and “exploited” his wife into the dynamic while Brown was their spiritual leader.
- That an elder accountability team (EAT) tasked with making recommendations based on Firefly’s investigation was supposed to include a trauma-informed expert, which the Line of Fire board previously promised. The board drew criticism when no trauma-informed expert was listed in the EAT’s report. Brown said Wednesday the expert was selected for his benefit, to counsel him, because he was traumatized by the investigation. However, the board previously explained they sought a trauma-informed investigation to be “sensitive to the advocacy community.”
- That he and his publisher Destiny Image Books decided not to promote his new memoir, “Living in the Line of Fire” at all when it was scheduled to be published in March. However, Brown promoted the book in a podcast in January. And in February his publisher promoted it on X.
Reactions
Both Brown and Mercy Culture experienced backlash for Wednesday’s interview on social media and in statements to TRR.
Amber Rhodes, a former student of the Brownsville Revival School of Ministry, the predecessor to FIRE, wrote on X: “Smacking a ‘spiritual daughter’ on her behind as a ‘spiritual father’ is NEVER innocent. It is not playful. It is not fatherly. It is a violation. PERIOD. Shame on you for minimizing it. And shame on Mercy Culture for entertaining these theatrics.”
A viewer going by @canasiabackrien6886 who seems to have been attending Mercy Culture, posted a comment on Schott’s YouTube video.
“As someone who has family members that have been trafficked and sexually abused, I cannot stay at Mercy Culture because of the way this situation with Dr Michael Brown is being handled,” the viewer wrote. “You can’t say you love justice and mercy without loving truth. So where is the podcast with Sarah or Ray? What about their story? Celebrating and defending a man that not only was found guilty of sexual clergy abuse/adultery but also lied and attempted to cover it up —is not the hill to die on.”
In his interview, Brown seemed to excuse the sexual misconduct allegations from 2001 and 2002 by stating he was burned out from a split between the Brownsville School of Ministry and the FIRE School of Ministry. But Katherine Marialke, former FIRE missionary and whistleblower, told TRR that is no excuse.
“Many other students and staff were also in incredibly difficult situations because of this split,” Marialke said. “He brought families along that he could not pay or support financially. Were those husbands also manhandling their young female assistants and having phone sex with their friends’ wives? I think not.”
New York Times best-selling author and Bible teacher Joel Richardson, on X, chastised Brown for breaking promises to submit to the body of Christ and to the Firefly report.
“Here is the bottom line: You cannot say that you’ve taken full responsibility and repented—while simultaneously claiming the charges are lies and a satanic attack,” Richardson wrote. “You can’t say you care deeply for victims—while publicly dismissing them as deceived or dishonest. . . . You are a coward, a fraud, a rebel, and a wolf.”
“Ray” told TRR he’s already forgiven Brown for his treatment of his wife 20 years ago. But Brown’s recent disparagement of former staff has been even more painful.
“When these events came up again, he committed terrible offense to Sarah, myself and many others. . . who had worked for him by twisting reality to make himself look better at the expense of others,” Ray said. “The latter state is worse than the beginning.”
Rebecca Hopkins is a journalist based in Colorado.
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22 Responses
The fracturing of a Marriage Covenant (Covenant meaning: Wow for Life, while both spouses yet live), whether it is one’s own marriage or the fracturing of the marriage of another; as was the case with Ray and his wife Kim, as another man other than Ray not only involved himself with vulgarly crude speech regarding sexuality with her but also suggested and highly encouraged no intimacy with the woman and her husband: grounds for disqualification for leadership in ministry involving other people (other than his own spouse, in the home). However, that does not indicate that forgiveness is not available when the sin is repented of, publicly, if the sin involved people outside of the man’s marriage, and he had been involved in leadership … This is why Shaul states that the man who aspires to leadership must be above reproach.
And, then: there is the matter of the Haitian orphanage and Children who were known to have been with a sexual predator and warning was not given to those in Haiti (whether vulnerable children or adults). That, alone, has been difficult to deal with.
Yahshua sees every thing. He is returning, soon. House Cleaning is happening. Children and marriages are being vindicated. Eternity is forever. This short life is preparation for forever. May we not fight the Cleaning.
It seems too predicable when leaders who are called to account for their actions turn and claim that the enemy is against them or there is some kind of plot afoot.
Can you make a Mike Brown Investigation thumbnail to access all his articles? It’s getting hard to keep up.
https://julieroys.com/investigations/dr-michael-brown/
As a former supporter of Dr. Michael Brown and his ministry, as one who benefited greatly from his podcasts and books, I sadly have to agree he has proven himself unfit for public ministry. If he was truly humble and really cared about not bringing reproach to the Name of Christ, he would step away from ministry. But somehow, he has deluded himself into thinking “his ministry” is too important and that “the show must go on”. If only he was more concerned about HIS ministry, meaning Christ’s!
I find it incredibly sad and gut wrenching that Jaco Booyens is now tied up in this mess. I don’t know much about him other than on the surface it seemed like he was doing good work to stop trafficking and abuse. Now, how can we trust that people suffering those things are even safe under his ministry? How does someone working to stop abuse look in the face of overwhelming evidence and turn a blind eye? It leaves the question, “What does Booyens stand to gain by protecting Brown instead of protecting victims?” Also, it’s incredibly disrespectful to victims for Booyens to be selling a t-shirt on his website that says “Stand Up For The Voiceless”, yet he seems to be doing the exact opposite of what he claims to believe. Brown is not the “voiceless”. The victims are struggling to have their voices heard. Incredibly sad.
As a minister, and trauma-informed counsellor I had mixed feelings listening to the podcast yesterday.
This MC podcast gave us a chance to hear more fully from MB, but the presentation of the podcast is biased with an unconditional trust in MB.
We cannot judge MB’s motivations and the state of his character, and I will not. But, nor can we judge Sarah’s experience, and this podcast does – which is wrong!
I understand more from his perspective now, but none of the “evidences” in this podcast dispel the sexual/romantic-type behavior claimed by Sarah. We are simply left by MB with “It never happened”.
Despite having a trauma-informed guest, the MC podcast fails to acknowledge the power imbalance with Sarah and Kim. They fail to acknowledge the journey of confusion, denial, and pain that Sarah testifies she went through. They simply classify her journey as not real abuse. This is very wrong and sad. It furthers the pain and could further Sarah’s own confusion.
I agree 100% with what Joel R said on X. Good summary Joel.
Those trying to exonerate MB keep saying he “flicked”, those believing that he abused keep saying he “swatted” Sarah. I think the best, neutral, most honest word for everyone to use would be touched.
It is totally normal for someone to experience abuse and sexual harassment and to continue to relate warmly to their abuser, until their eyes are opened. It doesn’t matter if Ron Cantor tried to convince Sarah that it was abuse. He was right to do that. From what I can see, she isn’t believing it is abuse because Ron said it, she is believing it because it is true. Only she can decide if she wanted to be kissed and touched.
Dr. Brown you are wrong when you say that it isn’t Godly to confess in what ways and how many times you crossed intimate sinful boundaries. That is Godly. The goal of confession is 3-fold:
1. To agree to God and others about what you did; and if you’re a public leader, repent publicly. Do we need to confess publicly exact numbers of encounters? No, just to our spouses, but publicly we need a timeline. Which you gave for Kim.
2. To bring clarity to your behavior, so to confess WITHOUT all the fluff and excuses (I was burnt out, I was a spiritual father)
3. To ensure to avoid minimizing what you did. If you have to err on any side, err on the side of embellishing what you did… because we fear God (Luke 12:4-5)
Sadly MB thought that it was appropriate to stay silent about the details, while simultaneously issuing public apologies, which didn’t help us to understand clearly his story. We may have a few more of the facts from his perspective now, but his apology is very wrong, and I hear 2 things in it:
1. MB believes he did nothing wrong with Sarah.
2. MB fails to apologize with excellence as a spiritual leader. For example: “It is true that I did A,B,C,D,E with Sarah. I cannot agree that I had any desire to abuse, but I 100% agree that those actions are sexual misconduct on my part as a leader”.
It is manipulative to call yourself repentant, tearful, remorseful, etc. Stop all of that, and just be yourself, and take ownership, and let others call you those positive things. If you truly are, they will say it. Otherwise, it sounds more like the calculated covering up that the 3rd-part report accuses you of.
I’d love to see an honest interview with Michael Brown’s wife. That’s what I’d like to see. I think it’s interesting that he brought her up constantly, while “crying” and sounding like a big baby and victim and yet where is she? How come she wasn’t sitting dutifully next to him during this interview? I’m getting a little bit sick of watching these guys deny attack reverse the victim and offender and to share that $40k was spent to investigate him… I still stand with the victims and he blocked me on X for stating that very thing. I’ve sat with too many victims of abuse and Brown is no victim. He’s reaping what he’s sown. As for the Schott’s, I hope they get some help soon. They clearly need it because their discernment is sorely lacking. Makes me wonder if they are being paid something.
Brown, the Schotts, Morris, the Lambs, Driscoll, and all the other regulars on TRR seem to have no idea that Jesus was warning them about the fruits of THEIR spirit when He said “What comes out of a person is what defiles him. For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, SEXUAL IMMORALITY, theft, murder, ADULTERY, COVETING, wickedness, DECEIT, SENSUALITY, envy, slander, PRIDE, foolishness. All these evil things come from within, and they defile a person.”
Mark 7:20-23 ESV
NONE of these defiled, unrepentant sinners should be in ministry.
I sense DARVO is strong within him. Much narcissism and sociopathy has he.
Yet another “Manogawd” who is really is anything but that.
May he and his house fall and end up in the dustbin of history.
I have done five videos reviewing this mess of an interview. Booyans was despicable in his constantly gaslighting that this was somehow “not about Brown.” The other guy is an employee of Schott and given Brown’s apostolic elder position, how was this entire thing not one huge conflict of interest? Also, this was introduced as Heather being allowed to ask any question, as if it was not staged. Yet, how did Heather have all of the emails to show on screen unless brown knew full well what was going to be covered and sent them? Lastly, one of the private email they displayed was Sarah revealing multiple miscarriages. Just disgusting to air that publicly, to defend his behavior.
Brown also had them display a letter sent to TRR from his lawyer threatening you over the Haiti coverage. Because you know, Jesus.
There is a singular theme in all these purportedly “painful” stories of spiritual leaders gone awry. Go find a mirror and read aloud: “They have a platform from which to peddle their product because there is a demand for the product. Without the demand, there would be no platform.” It follows that the folks motivated by that demand will be the ones who provide the platform. These guys are no different than all entrepreneurs….they have found a need and they are filling it. They have found a market and until that market is satiated or replaced by another with more appeal, nothing will change regardless how much scripture people quote or how much disgust is vented. Its about the people consuming the product. It has never been about anyone else and never will be about anyone else. There is no market for any product, illicit or not, that does not work exactly the same way.
Well stated Frederic.
This isn’t theology.
It’s business.
At one time held Michael Brown in high esteem. The last five years I have seen enough of his dodging and feinting for so many fallen pastors/teachers that it came time for me to examine my own salvation and what I found disturbed me because I kept fooling myself in the same way Michael Brown is fooling himself. Those who continue to support this man in his behavior are complicit in his conduct.
Brown will definitely be “Living in the Line of Fire” for a long time now. He can deny, deny, deny, but we are not stupid. He can’t admit wrong for fear of ruining his ministry (which already is a mess) but he would probably have to pay Sarah some money if she filed a lawsuit. I have not heard clearly if she filed a lawsuit against him like Cindy Clemishire did against Robert Morris. Never under estimate the power of a woman with the Holy Spirit on her side!!
Michael Brown just doesn’t know when to quit. He’s embarrassed himself, his wife, his family, his friends, ministers, and the church. This has gone on for months, but he still can’t shut up.
He promised a lie detector test, but instead he goes for a pastor’s wife. This is beyond ridiculous. It is even more absurd for an apologist, whom you would think once had a grasp on the concepts of facts, logic, and arguments, to play these silly little juvenile red-neck speculation games of demons and plots.
He is looking more and more like a pseudo intellectual, showing possible signs of mental illness or early-onset dementia. He repeats the same mistake over and over expecting a different outcome.
The contrast between Brown and Bickle is glaring. Bickle said a few words but then was silent. Brown said a few words but can’t stop talking. What’s his next move in this train wreck? Is he going to hire a theatrical troupe to entertain us with a play which will prove his innocence? When does it end?
Michael Brown is a brother in Christ. I watched the video and believe him. I am not sure why people are out to cancel and hate on him. It’s unbelievable. He has repented. God has forgiven him. It’s so sad to see all this viciousness and spite. The church has become so hateful. MB is old. He should just retire and go on living for God now. Or do whatever the Spirit of God tells him to. Jesus does not hate him. But, I am of the opinion that ministers can be restored in many circumstances. I must say the church is a scary thing nowadays. Full of hateful folk who don’t love. No one can take correction. It’s so sad. I don’t recognize what’s it’s become. It’s full of false prophets, proud folk who can’t admit they are wrong, gossipers, haters, slanderers, false accusers, and untrustworthy folk. Grievous. We are all humans. Even as believers we fall and fail. Well, some of us do. And some of us are stupid, so stupid we’ve forgiven our sexual abusers who’ve never been brought to justice and given them to God. I guess dummies like me understand that hell is not where I want anyone to go to, even those who have hurt me deeply. For I too have sinned and hurt others. Mike Brown is a brother.
0 cancel. 0 hate. 0 judgment. A simple ask that he admit sin and repent.
What makes this situation so confusing is he keeps eloquently saying “I have repented, what more is there to do?” The public is saying, “no you haven’t, because you are in denial”. I cant touch someone else, who says that it was romantic, intimate and unwanted to them, and then I call it innocent and say I have done nothing wrong. Or just say sorry for causing pain and confusion (but I wont name the touching as sin). He has said it was wrong, but never once said it was violating. Not repentance.
I also want to add that I too have sinned and hurt other people, and I agree that God doesn’t hate, and that he can restore.
If MB is correct that he did very little wrong in the situation in question, and that he has 100% repented, then you are correct that the church has become a hateful place. But I think that both MB’s perspective and your statement are incorrect.
Posts like yours (the parts of it that sound healthy to me) are a reminder for me to ask ‘am I forgiving MB myself?’ So thank you for that. I want to stay humble and soft-hearted. I choose to forgive him.
When it comes to the parts of your post that seem unhealthy to me, I would ask a question. What are those of use on this chat supposed to do about that fact that we were just judged by you as “hateful” people who “don’t love”. Simply because we are saying that someone is acting with a lack of integrity and repentance. How is that hateful? Have you cancelled us?
thank you, Julie, for your courage and dedication to publish truth and fairness. i agree with others who have commented here. as a survivor of sexual trauma, i agree that Dr. Brown should step away from ministry to truly demonstrate his humility in action, not just words. His refusal to do so and to defend his actions, despite investigation that gives credence to his victims, brings doubt to his claims and shame on his ministry. Melinda Galloway-Firmin
Much of Dr. Brown’s and his supporters contortions regarding this remind me of President Clinton’s bit about “depends on what the meaning of is is” and that “oral *** is not really ***”.