John Ortberg Kept a Son’s Attraction to Minors Secret. One of Ortberg’s Other Children Blew the Whistle.

By Bob Smietana

In the summer of 2018, a volunteer at Menlo Church came to the Rev. John Ortberg seeking help. 

The congregation member, who volunteered with youth and children at the Bay area megachurch and in the community, had been experiencing “an unwanted thought pattern of attraction to minors” and needed the pastor’s support.

After hearing this admission, Ortberg asked if the volunteer had ever acted on that attraction.

The volunteer said no.

Once Ortberg was convinced the volunteer was telling the truth and was not a danger to others, he prayed for the person and offered a referral for counseling and then allowed the volunteer to continue working with children.

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In what Menlo Church’s elders would later call “poor judgment” and a betrayal of trust, the megachurch pastor did not notify the church’s staff of the volunteer’s admitted attraction to minors.

He did not notify the church’s elder board.

He did not suggest the volunteer stop working with children – in fact, the pastor and his family encouraged the volunteer in his work as a coach of an Ultimate Frisbee team for high school students.  

Instead, Ortberg, the lead pastor of Menlo, kept what he had learned about the volunteer secret from his congregation. 

Especially the volunteer’s name: John “Johnny” Ortberg III, the pastor’s youngest son. 

But nothing in a church or in a family stays hidden forever.

Concerned about the safety of children in the church and Johnny’s well-being, one of the elder Ortberg’s children, Daniel Lavery*, who identifies as a transgender man, revealed Ortberg’s actions in an email to Menlo Church leaders in November 2019 and also made public a break with Lavery’s parents. At that point, Lavery chose to keep the reasons for the break confidential.

The controversy that ensued tarnished the reputation of the father, who’d built a career as a friendly, nonconfrontational evangelical pastor who had mostly avoided culture war battles while promoting seeker-friendly evangelism and conservative values of family and sexuality.

Before coming in 2004 to Menlo Church, a San Francisco-area congregation of about 5,000, John Ortberg and his wife, Nancy, had been teaching pastors at Willow Creek Community Church, one of the nation’s largest churches, in the suburbs of Chicago. 

In 2014, Menlo left the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) to join a breakaway denomination called ECO, A Covenant Order of Evangelical Presbyterians. The church cited theological differences in the break, which came after years of dispute in the PC(U.S.A.) over sexuality, and paid close to $9 million in order to keep its property.

Daniel Lavery

After the initial Menlo investigation, the Rev. Ortberg took a leave of absence and was reprimanded by the church in early 2020. He underwent a brief restoration process. Then Ortberg, a popular speaker and evangelical leader who played a key role in drawing public attention to allegations of misconduct against Bill Hybels, the legendary founder of Willow Creek, returned to the pulpit and the church hoped to move on.

Lavery wrote in Lavery’s initial 2019 email that Lavery hoped Menlo’s leadership would conduct a “robust, thorough inquiry” into the matter. But in June, believing the church had failed to do so, Lavery posted the email to the church elders — this time revealing Johnny’s name — on social media.

The revelation that the volunteer was John Ortberg’s son raised many questions that remain unanswered. And a group of critics — including Lavery, church members, a former friend of the Ortbergs and others — hope public pressure will cause the church to conduct what they call a more thorough investigation.

A fateful meeting

Lavery had high hopes when Lavery planned to meet with Johnny, who is in his early 30s and a graduate student at the University of California, Santa Cruz, in the fall of 2019.

The two had been close in the past, said Lavery, an author and Dear Prudence advice columnist for But the relationship between the two had become strained after Lavery publicly came out as trans earlier in 2018.

“I noticed that my brother would no longer use a name or pronouns to refer to me,” Lavery told Religion News Service (RNS). “He stopped returning my texts. He avoided me. And that was very painful.”

Lavery reached out and invited Johnny and Lavery’s sister, Laura Ortberg Turner, to visit the apartment that Lavery shares with Lavery’s spouse, Grace, who is also trans. Family members told Lavery that Johnny was having a hard time understanding Lavery’s gender transition and that Lavery should “be gentle” with him.

Lavery hoped the two could reconcile. Instead, the meeting would shatter their family to pieces.

Things started out well, said Lavery. All three siblings met at Lavery’s apartment and visited for a while before Turner, a writer and former RNS columnist, left. After their sister departed, Lavery and Johnny talked for a bit about the state of their relationship.

Then, according to Lavery, Johnny turned to Lavery and said, “I have something to tell you.”

“It was then I learned the reason my brother had been avoiding me was not only because of my transition, but it was because everyone else in the family knew that he was a pedophile. And I didn’t,” Lavery said.

Johnny Ortberg declined repeated requests for comment.

Lavery said Johhny told Lavery that for years he had experienced sexual attraction to children but never acted on that attraction. He told Lavery that he had shared this secret with their parents and their sister the year before.

Still, Lavery’s brother continued working with kids. According to Lavery, the family had a group chat where they cheered on the Ultimate Frisbee team Johnny coached. Lavery feared Lavery had become complicit in giving approval to someone who could be a danger to children.

Lavery was also concerned that Johnny invoked the phrase “virtuous pedophile” to describe himself — a term used by an online support group of people attracted to children who never act on that attraction and who maintain that abuse is wrong. Some group members believe it is safe, even healing, for people with this attraction to work with children.

After Johnny left, Lavery spoke to Grace Lavery and to Nicole Cliffe, a close family friend. Then Lavery called the elder John Ortbeg.  

“I had entered that phone call thinking surely we will be wanting the same thing, which is for Johnny to get treatment and to not be alone with children,” Lavery told RNS. “It’s not safe for children. It’s not healthy for Johnny.”

Instead, Lavery told RNS, Rev. Ortberg insisted on keeping the matter secret and urged Lavery to show compassion to Johnny. Lavery said Rev. Ortberg also used the term “virtuous pedophile” in referring to his youngest son — a claim Rev. Ortberg denied. A spokesman for the Menlo Church elders said John Ortberg has not used that term in their conversations with them.

During the call, Lavery said, John Ortberg insisted his youngest son be able to keep working with children.

Lavery recalled Lavery’s father saying Lavery’s brother “would have no reason to live” if he could not continue his volunteer work.

“I became convinced that my parents do not have my brother’s best interests at heart,” Lavery said.

When Rev. Ortberg refused to act, Lavery wrote the initial email to church leaders expressing concerns, detailing Lavery’s conversations with  Johnny and Lavery’s father, along with Johnny’s long history of work with children. Lavery also cut ties with the family and took Grace Lavery’s last name.

“I would not share this information with you unless I believed there to be a credible basis for a serious and thorough investigation of every aspect of my brother’s work with children, and the cover-up my parents have conducted,” Lavery wrote. “In the most charitable reading possible, my parents have acted with unconscionable disregard for their responsibilities as leaders, ministers, and parents.”

In response, the church placed John Ortberg on leave in November — although it kept that information from the congregations for more than a month. The church also contacted leaders at ECO, its denomination.

Church elders hired an employment lawyer named Fred W. Alvarez, a partner at Coblentz Patch Duffy & Bass LLP, to look at the concerns raised by Lavery. A spokesman for the church’s elder board described Alvarez as a respected investigator. Alvarez’s official bio describes him as an employment lawyer whose practice focuses on defending employers but lists no expertise in working with churches or abuse.

The church also barred the volunteer from working in its children’s ministry and said the volunteer no longer has a role at the church. Church leaders do not expect the volunteer to have any future role at the church, according to a spokesperson for the elders.

The younger Ortberg has also ended his role in volunteering with the Ultimate Frisbee team. 

Since the church wanted the investigation to be independent, with no ties to their pastor, church leaders did not contact GRACE – a leading evangelical group whose name stands for “Godly Response to Abuse in the Christian Environment” — because the group’s founder had previously worked closely with the Ortbergs in their efforts to investigate the alleged misconduct by Hybels. The Willow Creek founder, who denied any misconduct, resigned in 2018, followed by most of the church’s leadership. An outside panel found that the allegations against Hybels were credible.

Alvarez’s investigation, which lasted about six weeks, included interviews with children’s ministry staff — past and present — and a review of volunteer records. According to the church elders, the investigator found no allegations of misconduct.

The investigation closed just after Christmas. Church elders reprimanded the Rev. Ortberg for poor judgment and sent him through a “restoration program” that included apologizing to staff.

John Ortberg returned to the pulpit in March, with a sermon titled “Lessons Learned on Leave.”

John Ortberg in 2019. Video screengrab via Focus on the Family.

A brief investigation 

Lavery was not convinced by the investigation.

According to the church’s elders, the investigator did not speak to any parents whose children had contact with the volunteer. The investigator did not speak to any other volunteers who worked alongside the younger Ortberg.

The investigator did not speak to any outside group where the volunteer had a role working with children. During interviews with staff, the investigator did not ask specifically about the volunteer’s conduct or reveal there were any concerns about the volunteer.

A spokesman for the church’s elder board also told RNS that the investigator decided not to interview the volunteer, deeming it unnecessary.

In addition, the church’s elder board repeatedly refused to reveal the volunteer’s name, citing confidentiality concerns, describing the person only as someone who was part of the church community and never as someone who had direct family ties to leadership.

“We did not disclose the name of the volunteer during the investigation due to the confidentiality requirements of an ongoing investigation. Once the investigation closed, the results found that there was no indication of wrongdoing,” the church’s elders told RNS in a statement.

That decision left both congregation members and other organizations where the younger Ortberg had volunteered in the dark, said Jimmy Hinton, a pastor and child abuse prevention advocate.

“In situations like this,” Hinton said, “what the leadership needs to realize is that they have the benefit of being in the know and the power to keep everybody else in the dark. And that’s a dangerous, dangerous situation for any parent who has a child in that congregation.”

Hinton, whose own father, a former pastor, was convicted of abuse in Pennsylvania, said church leaders are often blinded by friendship when it comes to investigating concerns about the pastor or members of a pastor’s family.

He does not know if there was any misconduct at Menlo Church. But he sees a great risk that needs to be investigated.

I think all of us who are not members of that congregation can see this,” he said. “Every decision that they made was a really bad decision. We can see that clearly because we’re not friends with them. We don’t know these people. We’re just looking at the facts that are in front of us.”

Shira M. Berkovits, president of Sacred Spaces, an organization that seeks to “prevent and respond to sexual abuse and other abuses of power” in Jewish communities, said there are plenty of opportunities for volunteer work that do not involve contact with children.

Berkovits has no specific knowledge about the situation at Menlo Church. In general, she said, it would be “the far more prudent choice” for someone who is attracted to children to stick to those other opportunities.

“Speaking generally, a person who discloses sexual attraction to children should not be employed to work with children or permitted to volunteer with children,” she told RNS in an email.  “It is important to note that sexual attraction to children does not mean that a person will act on that attraction, and one who admits to the attraction and is seeking qualified treatment from an expert, has begun the necessary work. However, even as such a person may be doing the work, they should still not be given a position which provides them with access to children.”

Still keeping secrets

Lavery was quick to insist Lavery knows of no specific instances of misconduct by Johnny. Lavery said Johnny has also insisted that he has never harmed anyone. Lavery hopes that is the case. 

Yet given the scope of Johnny’s work with kids — which included years of mission trips to Mexico — Lavery believes a lengthy and thorough investigation should be in order. That kind of review cannot be done quickly, Lavery said.

“I don’t know how you can investigate 16 years of volunteer work in about five weeks over the Christmas holidays,” Lavery said.

Keeping Johnny’s name secret also made it harder to find out if Johnny had ever acted on his attraction, Lavery said. No one in the church or the community would have known they or their children were at risk.

For example, Johnny Ortberg served for years as a coach with the Gunn Control, an Ultimate Frisbee team made up of students from Henry M. Gunn High School in Palo Alto, California. In November 2019, he sent a note to team members saying he had stepped down because of a family crisis. They received no other information, said Michael Tao, who was team captain for two years.

Tao, who is 18, told RNS in a series of emails that he had seen tweets on social media about his former coach and called them “quite unbelievable.” A team member for four years, he said he never saw any inappropriate conduct.

“In the years that he has coached my teammates and me, not only has he been an excellent coach, but also a great person who everyone could share a laugh with,” Tao said. “Now I am not refuting the condition which Johnny has, but am putting out there that he is a good person who has never acted on said condition, which Twitter is making it out to be.”

Shannon Mather, whose son played with Gunn Control, said she received no information from Menlo Church. She said her son has never expressed any concerns about his coach.

Still, she was angered by the church’s handling of the situation and especially at the Rev. Ortberg.

“His silence and secrecy put my child in harm’s way,” she said. “He was in an admittedly horrible, untenable position and he made the wrong choice.”

Different rules

Lavery said Lavery did not want to name Johnny but ultimately felt Lavery had no choice. Lavery believes the church’s elders and John Ortberg have worked primarily to protect their reputations, rather than finding the truth.

John Ortberg preaches at Menlo church in 2020. Video screengrab via Menlo Church.

Lavery said the family has long believed that there is one set of rules for the Ortbergs and different rules for everyone else.

“I’m not naming Johnny out of malice, but he cannot be trusted to set the terms of his work with children,” Lavery said.

Lavery also said John Ortberg urged Lavery to remain quiet, out of fear that Johnny might harm himself if he were cut off from contact with children.

John Ortberg has denied this allegation, saying he has never considered his son a threat to himself or others.

In an email to RNS, the father expressed both his confidence in the church’s investigation and his regret for his actions.

“I am deeply sorry for my shortcomings in handling this situation, and for not fully considering the legitimate concerns of our congregation and my responsibility to ensure the safety and security of everyone who comes through our doors,” Ortberg said in the statement. “When my son first spoke to me, I should have immediately asked our church elders for counsel and I should have exerted my full influence to ensure that he did not volunteer again at any event with children and youth.”

The pastor also said the church had “extensively investigated” the situation and found “no misconduct or allegations of misconduct towards anyone in the Menlo Church community.”

He said he also urged anyone who had knowledge of wrongdoing to report it to authorities. Menlo Church elders have made a similar statement.

“Again, I am deeply sorry about my poor judgment and acknowledge that I betrayed my sacred trust as Senior Pastor,” he said in the statement.

Ortberg declined to answer a question about whether he remains fit to serve as a pastor or spiritual leader, saying decisions about his future lie in the hands of ECO and the Menlo Church elders.

Nicole Cliffe, a writer and family friend, said she hopes John Ortberg will step down.

Cliffe co-founded the Toast, a now-dormant but beloved blog, with Lavery. At the time, she was a self-described “happy atheist.” She said when Lavery first introduced her to Lavery’s parents, Lavery told her, “you’re going to like them more than you like me.” John and Nancy Ortberg are known for having a gift of drawing people in and engaging them in discussions about Christianity.

In 2015, Cliffe converted to Christianity after reading an obituary that John Ortberg had written about theologian Dallas Willard.

“Since then,” she later wrote, “I have been dunked by a pastor in the Pacific Ocean while shivering in a too-small wetsuit. I have sung ‘Be Thou My Vision’ and celebrated Communion on a beach, while weirded-out Californians tiptoed around me. I go to church. I pray. My politics have not changed; the fervency with which I try to live them out has.”

John Ortberg baptized her. Lavery and Lavery’s siblings were there too, as was Nancy Ortberg, John’s wife. 

When Lavery first told Cliffe about the conversation with Johnny, Cliffe said she told her friend to go slow. She kept in contact with Lavery’s sister, herself a writer. (Turner declined to be interviewed for this article.) Cliffe also said she spoke with Johnny Ortberg, trying to convince him to end his volunteer work and to seek treatment.

She wanted to believe the best.

Cliffe later broke with the family after being interviewed by Alvarez. Cliffe said she told the investigator that her friend, Turner, would not allow her child to be alone with her younger brother — a choice Cliffe said Turner had confided in her. The investigator, Cliffe said, acted surprised and told her he had not known of the restriction. John Ortberg said in an email that no such restriction exists.

Cliffe, who has a young son, said she believes her friends can no longer be trusted. She said she worried the Ortbergs would never have warned her about possible risks to her son — choosing to protect their secrets rather than watch out for the best interests of others.

She described the whole situation as profoundly sad. 

Cliffe believes John Ortberg has betrayed the trust needed to be a pastor. Instead, she said, he needs time for self-reflection and to make amends for his decisions. 

“John Ortberg is not capable at this point of being a spiritual leader to anyone,” Cliffe said.

Cliffe also worries about the fallout for her friend, Lavery. She said Lavery’s concerns have been dismissed in part because of Lavery’s transition or have been seen as the biased comments of an estranged child angry at John and Nancy Ortberg.

“I would like people to know that Danny sacrificed everything,” she said. “(Lavery’s) entire family, extended relatives, there’s no one left. (Lavery) put (Lavery’s) whole life aside to attempt to protect children.”

*Some of the references to Daniel Lavery have been changed to match The Roys Report’s policy.

Bob Smietana is editor-in-chief at Religion News Service.



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18 thoughts on “John Ortberg Kept a Son’s Attraction to Minors Secret. One of Ortberg’s Other Children Blew the Whistle.”

  1. So he drew attention to Hybels “situation” while he was hiding his own sons admitted struggle? Some pastor he is!
    I do question motives on the other son though. I agree with calling things out but there has to be another reason behind it.
    Big issues in this family.

    1. why does there ‘have to be another reason behind it’ other than not compromising where children, the least of these, are concerned?

      one can wonder & speculate, but how can you speak in such definite terms?

    2. The Hybels situation was long enough ago that I believe it was before he found out about John Ortberg the III’s sexual “interests”

  2. Another example of protection of leaders and organization over people in the church. Hired attorneys are not independent, don’t necessarily have expertise in issues of sexual abuse, and are legally required to protect their clients who hired them. These kinds of investigations are not independent. There is a huge conflict of interest in this case with the pastor’s own son being the one under scrutiny. 16 years of volunteer work with minors is going to take a long time to investigate properly. Church leaders, please do the right thing, place Mr. Ortberg on leave once again, secure a true independent group like GRACE, allow them to do their work without bounds, accept their conclusions, and boldly act on their recommendations.

  3. “Safe Sport” is a nationally recognized program for training coaches and volunteers who work with youth. Scouting has a similar program called “Youth Protection Training”. Such training specifies rules for how volunteers interact with youth and how both organizations and individuals should handle these situations. It seems like this discussion ought to include inputs from Safe Sport trainers and advisors. Having all of us and every group of leaders in churches start from scratch as we react to yet another instance of potential risk isn’t very professional.

  4. This is a very difficult story to read, especially because of the fact that traditional pronouns cannot be used. Thank you for reporting it.

  5. It seems that Lavery saw the hypocricy quite clearly. All the right steps seem to have been taken (I may be wrong). Her brother was asked to step down, the family and church were approached, then the investigation was not thorough, putting others at risk. Then finally, an open letter. Almost sounds biblical to me. This is a tragic and sad tale. I have been to Ortberg’s church and applauded his courage in the Willow Creek situation. May the church leadership respond in a Christlike and responsible manner. I also hope that Johnny is being watched as it seems like he would be tempted to harm himself. I know there is a way forward, but the consequences for the family will last a lifetime. I wish them well. My prayer is that there are no victims.

  6. What ever happened to “must be above reproach” in what qualifies one for on overseer position in ministry? Simply too inconvenient perhaps? This is a tough story and one that is very difficult to understand for those who hold to what things are in reality rather what they are in imagination. I weep for the Ortlands as the continued involvement in Christian ministry has obviously cost them a great deal of pain. I had to work out who was who and who was what as the constant use of Last Name made understanding it difficult at first.

    It is a tough job you have taken on Julie. I commend you for your effort to find the Biblical path in your reporting.

  7. This is a sad situation that requires prayer.

    With a son who has sexual attraction to children and a daughter who decided to become a transgender man, there might be a stronghold of sexual sin or other sins affecting sexuality in the Ortberg family.

    It’s good Lavery had the courage to call out Jonny Ortberg, and perhaps too that their parents called out Bill Hybels.

    Yet prayer is needed. God knows the depths of this story.

    God is exposing things. Let us pray to be His Light.

  8. Just to note that a couple of pronoun changes may still be needed. From the article above:

    “Lavery recalled Lavery’s father saying HIS brother ‘would have no reason to live’ if he could not continue his volunteer work.

    ‘I became convinced that my parents do not have my brother’s best interests at heart,’ Lavery said.

    When Rev. Ortberg refused to act, Lavery wrote the initial email to church leaders expressing HIS concerns, . . .”

      1. Julie, using the pronoun someone chooses is affirming the dignity of the individual since he or she is created in the Image of God. Thus it is Biblical. That’s my two cents

        1. Sarah, that is certainly one way to look at it. Here’s another. Is it “biblical” when someone whom God created denies the gender that God assigned them at birth? Does that honor God? I don’t believe it does, since they’re choosing to reject the way that God made them. There is nothing remotely biblical about the transgender and “gender preference” nonsense that is currently in vogue in our culture.

          1. God made not only Daniel Laverys body, but also his mind and his heart. If he says he is a man, let’s honor his word. How do we honor God by disrespecting someone who has a clear voice and a strong moral compass in this incredibly painful family situation?

  9. What took place in the Ortberg home that at least 2 out of 3 children are sexually confused? Why is this man still behind a pulpit?

    1. Carla, I was thinking the exact same thing when I first read this. It makes me wonder why Ortberg is still a pastor — anywhere. When we look at the biblical qualifications for an overseer/elder/pastor in 1 Timothy 3:4-5, it says: “He must manage his own household well, with all dignity and keeping his children submissive, for if someone does not know how to manage his own household, how will he care for God’s church?”

      1. Dan,
        Exactly. I also don’t understand why people continue to attend churches where the leaders are not fit for ministry.

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