Kevin Max, the vocalist of Grammy-winning Christian band DC Talk, has announced on Twitter that he has left evangelical Christianity.
“Hello, my name is Kevin Max & I’m an #exvangelical,” he tweeted on May 15.
Hello, my name is Kevin Max & I’m an #exvangelical
— kevin max (@kevinmax) May 15, 2021
In a later tweet, he added that he still follows “the Universal Christ,” although it’s unclear what he means by that phrase.
“I have no idea how many peoples blogs or podcasts are using that announcement for further division, but I’m here for The Grace,” said Max.
Max’s deconversion observed the vocabulary and terminology for departing evangelical faith that’s become common with “exvangelicals.” He mentioned “deconstructing” without saying what he planned to deconstruct. He also mentioned “progressing forward” without mentioning an end goal.
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However, when explaining his political views, Max is very clear.
“Anti-war, Pro-Peace, Anti-Hate, Pro-Love, Pro-LBGTQIA, Pro-BLM, Pro-open mindedness Anti-narrow mindedness Pro-Utopia, Anti-White Nationalist Agenda, Pro-equality, Pro-Vax, Pro-Music, Anti-1%rs, Pro-poor, Pro-misfit, Pro-Jesus, Etc….” another of his posts reads.
His tweet received a mixed response. Some people congratulated him, while others questioned his decision.
“Yay! Welcome to the exvan fam!” said Twitter user and exvangelical Julie Holt. Holt said that she had played DC Talk’s music while working at a radio station as a college student.
“Someone woke up and decided they needed attention,” another user said. “But seriously, this is the most ridiculous, anti-biblical nonsense I’ve read today.”
Pastor Stephen Mitchel speculated on whether Max was done with Christianity or the evangelical subculture. He noted that the two are different things.
“Kevin, it’s one thing to be disgruntled with evangelical subculture, but its another to be disgruntled with biblical Christianity. I hope and pray its the former not the latter for you, but regardless, I will forever be grateful to the role you played in my spiritual journey,” said Mitchel.
In leaving evangelical Christianity, Max follows an increasing number of celebrity Christian leaders who have publicly departed from evangelical faith.
His fellow “exvangelicals” include John Piper’s son Abraham Piper, I Kissed Dating Goodbye author Josh Harris, former Hillsong worship leader Marty Sampson, and Moody Bible Institute professor Paul Maxwell.
The reasons these leaders left evangelical faith included dislike of Christian sexual ethics, questions about the justice of God, frustration with the corruption of evangelical church leaders, and disappointment with the foolishness of the evangelical community.
But all these objections aren’t new, Skillet lead singer John Cooper noted in a Facebook post in 2019. Believers have asked questions about God’s justice for thousands of years and found the Bible’s answers sufficient.
Often, the people who leave the church end by telling others to love people, be generous, and forgive others, Cooper said. But they don’t acknowledge that these values come from Christianity.
“No child is ever born and says ‘I just want to love others before loving myself. I want to turn the other cheek. I want to give my money away to others in need,’” said Cooper. “Those are bible principles.”
As part of his new direction, Max said he will be playing in a new band called Sad Astronauts.
Jackson Elliott is a Christian journalist trained at Northwestern University. He has worked at The Daily Signal, The Inlander, and The Christian Post, covering topics ranging from D.C. politics to prison ministry. His interests include the Bible, philosophy, theology, Russian literature, and Irish music.
57 thoughts on “ DC Talk Singer Kevin Max Announces He’s ‘Exvangelical’”
In descibing himself as “Pro Jesus” I don’t see any indication here he’s leaving Christianity. I wouldn’t compare this to A. Piper or Harris
I agree; I’m reading it as he is distancing himself from the legalistic Evangelical blanket now used to cover a multitude of sins. I get it.
When someone starts talking new agey, “Universal Christ” verbiage, odds are is that it is more than just backing away from evangelical sub-culture. My tribe is evangelical but I am not a typical evangelical. I consider myself an “Orthodox” Christian.
My sense is that his use of “Universal Christ” is meant to contrast with the “America First” mindset in much of present day Evangelicalism in America. Hopefully he’s not reffering to being a Universalist.
How about ‘universal christ’ as opposed to the calvinist christ, the baptist christ, the pentecostal christ, the eastern orthodox christ, the catholic christ….
if there are 101 different versions of ‘biblical’, there are definitely many conflicting characterizations of Christ.
The purveyors of each see all the others as rivals, opponents, competitors, enemies.
in a close paraphrase of anne rice’s description, a deservedly infamous hostile and disputatious group.
in this context, “universal christ” simply means Jesus Christ as himself, instead of being yanked in different directions, used & exploited as a corporate mascot by competing factions, and without all the branding whereby he is used to sell things and make money for self-serving opportunists.
Perhaps unamazingly, these issues are really no different than those that faced college-aged youth back in the early ’70s, my generation. We had all the same concerns back then, during that ignoble ableit provocative hippie generation; people came to Jesus, people left Jesus, they came to church, they left church, they rebelled against the complexity of life, and that of church life. There is nothing new under the sun.
It seems we’ve either gone full circle over the past half century, or else nobody noticed these are merely everyday issues facing Christianity and faith in Jesus as the sole “I AM”. Those who are truly saved work through them; those who are not, leave for something else they think might work better.
Hi y’all… I just want to say that when Kevin Max refers to the ‘Universal Christ’ he is referring to this book: https://www.audible.com/pd/The-Universal-Christ-Audiobook/0525588388?source_code=GO1DH13310082090P1&ds_rl=1262685&ds_rl=1263561&ds_rl=1260658&gclid=Cj0KCQjw2NyFBhDoARIsAMtHtZ76MAO32q5GENTmZld_b7TKzAXJBqV_nAj7TbfVc7mcT7XOplAG15caApdDEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds
He stated this on a Facebook post a while back. So it’s not referring to Calvinism, Patriotic idolatory or any other thing like that. It’s referring to the Universal Christ as defined by this book.
My thoughts exactly Loren,
The author does quote Steven Mitchel saying that leaving evangelicalism and leaving Christianity are not the same thing but then goes on to equate “fellow ex-vangelicals” with people such as A. Piper and Harris who would more completely be described (and likely describe themselves) as ex-Christian.
I’m usually very impressed by this site’s journalistic accuracy so I’ll just suggest that this article could be a bit more careful with distinctions. Many of my friends and I are ex-vangelical and would agree with most of Kevin’s political views as listed above, but we are also unabashed followers of Christ.
You know one thing no one brings up, these men too will stand before God one day like all of us……..they will give an account. This is reality – for eternity.
A sincere question: unless one knew Kevin Max personally why would one care about this announcement?
When I read some of the replies to Max or read the commentary, it sounds more like the emotions a Packers’ fan might express if Rodgers leaves the team (please don’t leave, Aaron).
Some man we never knew personally but enjoyed how he entertained us suddenly isn’t playing on the same team any more.
How can one even express or feel sincere concern about a person one has never met, doesn’t know, and will never meet? A person to most (if not all) of his Twitter followers is a disembodied list of 240-character-limited tweets?
To me it makes sense to let the people who actually know and care about Max (his friends and family) be the ones who care about him. I’ll let them do that, and I’ll try to care about the people I actually know.
Since discovering The Roy’s Report a few months ago I have greatly appreciated your reportage. Being a source for thoughtful, relevant and scholarly information deserves respect.
That is why I am perplexed to see the unprofessional and trite post referring to singer Kevin Max.
Why you are not supporting a thoughtful Christian man who has the courage of his convictions is beyond me.
The article seems to equate American evangelicalism with Christianity-the true Body of Christ Eternal and Global.
This narrowness of thought is staggering.
Mr. Max deserves an apology, now.
The article wasn’t intended to support or not support Max, but simply to report the news about his announcement and people’s responses. I think it’s unclear right now where Max is at or what exactly he’s rejecting. However, I have invited him to record a podcast with me. Certainly, if what he’s rejecting is the trappings of evangelicalism, I can fully understand where he’s coming from. If he’s rejecting the tenets of the faith, that would make me extremely sad.
Good for you, Julie. Your podcasts have been very informative. I hope he accepts your offer
@Paul Konkol, perhaps I’m misunderstanding your post. Are you saying we should only care about those we know? Can you point that out in scripture? Isn’t the Good Samaritan literally a parable about a man caring for a STRANGER?
I don’t personally know anyone in Israel/Palestine right now, but I am definitely praying over that conflict. don’t personally know anyone who is homeless, but I spend time supporting ministries that witness and provide shelter to those on the street. I have powerwalked my neighborhood with prayer teams, praying for homes and buildings of those I don’t know (especially during this last year of covid). I don’t personally know the leaders of our government, but I do pray for them.
I can only imagine the added chaos of this world if everyone had the “I don’t know him/her, so I don’t care” attitude.
If you mean we should pray for those who actually interact with Max to impact and intercede for him (if in fact he is not a Christian, but that is not how I read his statement), then ok. But to do the “I don’t know you, so I don’t care” is an attitude of the world, not of Christ.
Marin, in the parable of the Good Samaritan, the Samaritan physically and materially helped a person by picking him up off the side of the road and making sure he was cared for properly. A person helping a person physically, materially, in real-time – real blood, sweat, and tears.
The Samaritan saw a need and contributed to meeting it. I doubt that any Twitter reply, commentary, or hand-wringing will help Max in the way in which the Samaritan helped the man he found by the side of the road. I don’t think this is resignation to impotence – I think it’s just how human relationships work (or don’t work).
At the same time, I’m glad you’re praying for him.
I started thinking along these lines after reading Postman’s “Amusing Ourselves to Death” – check it out!
And Julie, post whatever you want to post on your FREE website. More power to you!
Thank you for replying to my comment. However, there is a difference between encouraging others to do more than just “tweet” and asking why they care at all. Posting on something like this is a sign that the commenter is far from indifferent; and I do understand encouraging them to do more than just tweet or post (like pray for Max) rather than asking why they care at all….implying it is wrong to care for a stranger at all.
Again, if we don’t care for the souls of those around us – even those we don’t personally know – we have lost the spirit of evangelism.
Great point here that the only reason that this article exists is because Max is a celebrity. God is not biased towards the rich, successful, famous and powerful but we sure the heck are! What Max or any other of the Jesus Freak crew say has absolutely no effect on anyone who tries to be like God in this way. We do not know these people, nor do we actually know the politicians that we argue about or the celebrity preachers or other influencers. And for sure in the end when the only Judge will be Jesus will any of this matter one bit!
And someone here questioned if Max is going universalist on us, but what does that matter for all of us who know him not at all? I have an old friend who was a roommate of mine and to whom I was his first friend as a Christian after he converted. Now in his old age he is publicly confessing to being a universalist. What he has done sure matters a lot to me, although he is known by virtually no one. So why do we care so much about so many people who do not know us, do not want to know us and never will know us? Not that I want anyone to leave the faith, certainly forbid that thought, but pretending that celebrities matter when they really do not? How logical is that?
Besides when you can have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, the One and Only Celebrity, why would any of these others matter? Some claim to believe but God knows that they do not. Some get tired of the charade and change their tunes publicly, like Marjoe Gortner. Others may actually believe, though I am personally skeptical, but what does any of that matter when you can know the Judge now and get prepared for the inevitable? What does it matter for a third party view when you can have the first party view?
It matters because the music “celebrities” have a profound influence on susceptible youth. We should care. DC Talk has been a staple of “Christian” music for many years.
Actually their hit albums I bought over 20 years ago. The current generation of kids are listening to an entirely younger group of musicians. I doubt very many could tell you who Kevin is.
But beyond that are we teaching our kids to have a personal relationship with Jesus and His Spirit? By our example? Our we paying more attention to our preferred set of celebrities who are older? It does not have to be that way. I care not what famous people have to say about so many things. This is a choice. I choose not to have such be influencers over me. Yet if we chose to keep the real Jesus at arms length then other peoples opinions is all that is left. And then we all are the blind following the blind…
Yikes. This is sad, but I’m going to venture the guess that Max was never one of us to begin with. I am not a strict Eternal Securitist, I do believe occasionally people genuinely fall away like King Saul, but I don’t think it is the predominant explanation for “un-conversion” stories.
Brian, i suspect your “us” is a rather homogeneous group.
there is huge variety of belief and practice amongst people who name the name of Jesus Christ.
Given that Mr. Max remains a believer, it seems he wishes to shed a label that no longer has a positive meaning for him, and any associations that no longer represent who he is. I don’t see any problem with that.
The perceived meaning of the word “evangelical” has changed numerous times over history, originally being associated with revivalists, then with a specific set of denominations, then with those who called themselves “born-again”, and most recently with the religious right. In American culture the perception of “evangelicals” has changed dramatically over the last decade, largely because of changes in the behavior of prominent individuals and groups who call themselves evangelical. Think Jerry Falwell Jr, for example.
I do think it is newsworthy, however, when prominent adherents of any group or movement renounce it. Sometimes because the adherent has changed their own views, and sometimes because while their views have remained the same the movement itself has changed in ways they can no longer support. Josh Harris is certainly the former, while Mr. Max seems closer to the latter.
I would not align with all of Mr. Max’s views, but I understand not wanting to be associated with the current tarnished meaning of “evangelical”, and I no longer describe my faith using that term.
Out of DC Talk Kevin was always going against the grain. When they split and I heard their music you could tell what each member bought to the group. I loved him in Supernatural. It’s a time of change nothing but love for him. Remember this a life journey, I hope he is continuously strives in his walk. Christ is always seeking the lost and building up his people.
“Max” is pro-sexual confusion, so he has left Christianity.
““Max” is pro-sexual confusion, so he has left Christianity.”
Thanks for stating the obvious. I don’t know what kind of “gospel” Kevin Max is following these days but it sure isn’t the real one. It’s the feel-good one the world has invented that doesn’t necessitate dying to sin, etc.
I don’t know why it is so hard for people to admit this wannabe celebrity is no (longer) a believer.
The “Universal Christ” is a phrase (and book title) associated with Christian mystic Richard Rohr.
If that is where he is coming from, he is still a follower of Jesus, although a substantially less conservative one (both theologically and politically) than most readers on this site would be comfortable with.
One does have to admit that, especially since 2016, the “Evangelical” label has become an obstacle to mission in many respects. It is so closely tied in many people’s minds to a politics that is filled with fear and lies and white nationalism that I am pretty sympathetic to those who want to avoid the label.
Not to mention that the term has been somewhat hijacked by many who would better be classified as “fundamentalists”, starting in the 1980s when prototypical fundamentalist Jerry Falwell Sr. started calling himself an Evangelical and continuing with fundamentalist would-be evangelicals like MacArthur and Mohler today.
I find that many are rejecting the strong “fundamentalist” stream in evangelicalism. Often they “throw out the baby with the bathwater” and it pains me to see this happen. I have read some of Rohr’s books. Some are decent while others have more of a “mystical” or “New Age” bent. That is my perception but I have not been drawn in enough by his writing to make a fully informed decision.
““Kevin, it’s one thing to be disgruntled with evangelical subculture, but its another to be disgruntled with biblical Christianity. …” said (Stephan) Mitchel.
‘biblical christianity’….. we’ll, i don’t know how many ‘biblical’s we’re up to now, but everyone thinks only their version is the correct one.
i imagine that Stephen Mitchel considers any interpretative conclusions that differ from his is ‘unbiblical christianity’. (what in the world…?)
sounds like it’s going to be a very lonely heaven.
Scottie, your comments here and elsewhere in this post highlight the shortfalls in some of our terminology. One would think that the word “biblical” would seem straightforward enough, but it is not.
Years ago I was leading a Bible study at a local university when we encountered some people who we thought were also Christians. It turns out they were from a cult. What struck me was the fact that they said something like, “We just follow the Bible.” Those were virtually the same things I had been saying to people, too, but our beliefs and practices could not have been more different. I would have said we were “biblical” and this group probably would have said the same thing.
Having said that, I am glad the Lord is gracious to allow us some measure of freedom in our beliefs and practices so that the church is rich in diversity, encompassing people whose beliefs and practices are not all the same on every single issue. I also would venture to say that most Christians actually believe many of same things about the Bible, but we highlight our differences so much that it makes it seem as if we are miles and miles apart.
In the interest of being transparent here for a moment, some of my beliefs could be described as Calvinistic. In the past I would have even described myself as a Calvinist, but so much anymore, not because I am ashamed of it, but because the term is somewhat loaded, and it is easy for people to draw a lot of conclusions about me based on that, conclusions which may or may not be true. In other words, I would not want to be evaluated based solely on that. There is a lot more to me than just that, and there are some people who label themselves as Calvinists with whom I would not want to be associated. I also know there are some people on this blog who have differing beliefs in this regard, but that should not be a reason to discontinue fellowship with one another. Men and women of good conscience may draw different conclusions on these things and still be followers of Jesus.
Christians seem to want to divide over everything. Here is an old video that I always remember that really epitomizes it well.
Darren, thanks for your thoughtful, relevant comment and poignant, funny video.
May Jesus’ prayer for the unity of the true Church in John 17 become more of a reality.
That video shows how far people have fallen from the truth and the utter lack of fear of God is unbelievable. Not to mention it’s blasphemous.
Brian, why do you say it’s blasphemous?
Likely most here would appreciate the video’s humorous, satirical method of conveying truth, culminating when the devil flees at the name of Jesus, in the vein of C.S. Lewis’ “The Screwtape Letters.”
For those who appreciated that book, check out an awesome sequel by Richard Platt, “As One Devil to Another,” written as a tribute to Lewis’ work and in a style very reminiscent of him.
The reason I called the video blasphemous is because I genuinely believe that it is. It is profane and mocks the things of God that we should carefully, (and reverently) hear and take to heart. Also, knowing the end times are characterized as the church being apostate and worldly, how would copying the world be a good thing when it’s clear it’s what caused the church to be in the state that it’s in?
I imagine you’re probably right that most in here would appreciate its humor but that still doesn’t change anything, and C. S. Lewis was/is a dry well, not a good source of spiritual understanding.
He was a heretic that God fearing people would do well to stay away from (1 Cor.15:33).
Brian, what church do you attend?
I’m a Fundamental Baptist. I was saved about 15 -17 years ago, I remember the moment in time I just don’t remember the date. I’m a 58 y/o white male, divorced, raising 5 kids, actually my oldest daughter just turned 18 so I don’t get to call her a kid anymore, she would hit me!
I like to fish, and I’m not against hunting but I don’t much care for it, odd because I’m a butcher, what a hypocrite I am ;)
I admit I found it funny. I can see the grain of truth in it, though. We get too divided when really, like John 17 says we need to be united, and we can move in faith Word and Spirit like the Christians in Acts. “Unity” is a word God has been putting on the heart of Church leaders in my town. And how cool would that be to see the Catholics, Protestants, Charismatics, Baptists, mainline denominations, and High and Low Church all moving together against the Enemy united in Christ!
Thanks for the honesty. I’ve attended churches of all kinds yet currently connected to a liturgical church.
C.S. Lewis (fiction and non-fiction) has deeply encouraged my faith and I find myself returning to the Narnia books, and the Space Trilogy and I want to read “Till We Have Faces” again. I don’t agree with everything he says either, and I understand not all relate to him, yet the ways he writes of spiritual truth in Narnia are profound.
I write this just to say even though we have differences, we likely would have plenty in common (like raising kids!) and I would happily enjoy any fish you caught and you could butcher some grass fed beef for me!
And I hear you can catch Chinook Salmon in Lake Michigan.
After I was saved I read everything CS Lewis wrote, (that the Public Library had to offer) but nobody warned me that not everything that claims to be Christian really is.
Salmon? I live in Alaska and that is the main thing people catch around here! My 15y/o just got back from Seward where he went fishing and he caught Ling Cod and Rock Fish, but unfortunately no Halibut.
It’s been a while since I butchered any bulls, its mostly moose and bear and Pigs, and I hate pigs ;)
“Often, the people who leave the church end by telling others to love people, be generous, and forgive others, Cooper said. But they don’t acknowledge that these values come from Christianity.”
John Cooper misses the irony that these values are more demonstrable outside christianity.
“John Cooper misses the irony that these values are more demonstrable outside christianity.”
You can say that all you want, doesn’t make it so. Give me some examples. I would completely agree that most of the professing “church” is corrupt and irredeemable, because it was never genuine to begin with.
Arguing that the fallen perishing world is *inherently* morally superior to all of Christianity is an entirely different animal, and I suspect you have quite the uphill task ahead of you to prove that it’s so.
Perhaps it would be better phrased “these values are most demonstrable in the person of Christ.”
as a 61 year old man who has been a bible believing, Jesus loving christian for 44 years and I will continue to be till I die. I do NOT want to be called a “evangelical” or have any part of the modern white american evangelical church ( IM white BTW)…..why? becouse the white evangelical church believes God is a conservative republican, they say if you are a liberal you are “of the devil”, they support every war, support apartied racist israel who murders palastianians, they support millionaire preachers, support the prosperity Gospel, support the rich and despise the poor. they reject a minimum wage increase or anything that would help poor workers. they tell me that unless I support the christ denying christ hating nation of israel God will curse me. IMO this is the counterfiet church. Im a christian not an american evangelical.
You can believe in whatever “Jesus” you want and a lot of folks have over the ages.
Muslims claim to love and revere Jesus… they call him “Issa” and teach that he preached an early version of the Koran known as the Injil. LDS revere a Jesus who is literally Satan’s brother. JWs believe in a lesser, finite, created Jesus much like the rest of their Arian forefathers did. The Gnostic Gospel authors of Egypt believed in a rather interesting Jesus and they gave us some fascinating and entertaining fables of him. So on and so on. Like them, you believe in a fictional Jesus. Unlike them, your Jesus has no grounding in even cultic/heterodox historicity.
You can invent any “Jesus” that you like, who (just totally coincidentally) conforms to your entire worldview (which also happens to be the entire perishing world’s philosophy, but I digress), but you can’t act surprised when the Biblically orthodox community of God’s church on earth takes exception to your self-application of “Christian” and treats you accordingly.
Brian, please just be aware that not everyone equates Western evangelical protestantism as the only biblically orthodox group. We have our own problems (including use and misuse of scripture), just as the Catholic, Eastern, Anglican, Lutheran etc churches do too.
Everyone thinks their Jesus is the right Jesus, and that everyone who’s ideas don’t like up to theirs is an enemy. Even if we can’t agree, maybe we can all just show each other a little more grace
“Brian, please just be aware that not everyone equates Western evangelical protestantism as the only biblically orthodox group. We have our own problems (including use and misuse of scripture), just as the Catholic, Eastern, Anglican, Lutheran etc churches do too.”
I’m pretty sure that orthodox, traditional believers in all of those branches/denominations would strenuously object to a pro-homosexuality, pro-BLM “Jesus” like the one Kevin Max touts. This isn’t exclusive to evangelicalism.
“Everyone thinks their Jesus is the right Jesus, and that everyone who’s ideas don’t like up to theirs is an enemy. Even if we can’t agree, maybe we can all just show each other a little more grace”
There is ONE historical, current, and historical Jesus the Christ/God the Son. You can’t make up some deity who embodies all of your wants and desires and expect to be taken seriously. Primarily though I was addressing James Buckley who has taken things even farther than Kevin Max did in his de-conversion proclamation.
“and treats you accordingly”
How exactly do you intend to treat those you deem “Biblically unorthodox”, Brian?
And who decides what is orthodox? YOU?
I see nothing Biblically unorthodox in Mr. Buckley’s comment.
It could certainly be considered politically unorthodox from the viewpoint of the American religious right, but that clearly does not equate to Biblical unorthodoxy.
On the other hand, your veiled threat to treat someone differently because you have decided they are not a follower of Christ violates the law of love “on which hang all of the law and the prophets”.
The Biblically unorthodox comment here is yours, Brian. It does not match up to the example or instruction of Jesus.
Nevertheless, many true Bible-believing Jesus-loving Christians will treat you kindly, and hope you will someday come to the true light of Christ.
Brian, I am a little confused. What exactly is wrong with James’ statement? He said he is a Bible believing, Jesus’ loving Christian. As a matter of opinion, I am not sure I agree with everything he said, but I cannot find anything in the Bible that would make statements like that an indication that he is following some other Jesus.
In Genesis, chapter 12, speaking of the descendants of Abraham who would become the nation we know today as Israel, the unchanging God, who cannot lie and knows the beginning from the end, states with certainty “… and I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee…”.
While a few of your examples of modern evangelical error are worth noting, you have fallen prey to the equally modern fallacy of replacement Theology (Supersessionism). The scripture from Genesis to Revelation is repleat with examples of the LORD’S love-for and anger-with His people Israel. Anger with them for their repeated ventures into idolatry and other forms of disobedience and betrayal of God’s love. His love for them as His ‘covenant’ people cannot be dismissed out of hand by scholars, or armchair theologians, simply because some may be gullible to the strategies of Satan to discredit them. (Remember, we gentiles have been graciously grafted into the true vine.) In every instance, because of His undying love for them, he makes provision for their restoration. (At this point, be reminded of the ‘I am the LORD, I change not’ promise of God). At the risk of painfully going on and on, let us fast forward to Romans 11:26 “… And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: “The Deliverer will come out of Zion, And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob…”. And in The Revelation of Jesus Christ, chapter 7, states unequivocally that witnesses are people of the Nation of Israel.
The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, long ago called by that glorious name, by inspiration of the Holy Spirit, is far from done with His beloved Israel. The grace of God bestowed upon the world in Christ Jesus was after all to the Jew first and also to the Gentile.
Desiring the Jewish people to be blessed does not require agreement with the politics or the actions of the modern-day state of Israel, about which even the Jewish people themselves disagree.
Many Christians, for example, disagree with Israel’s state funding of abortions. That doesn’t mean we are cursing them. Neither does disagreeing with their policy towards Palestinians.
Lea, your preference for the protection of Palestinians (read Hamas, Iran, Syria, etc.) reveals your confusion as to the intent of God’s promise to favor Israel. If national Israel is in error in supporting the abomination of abortion (as we in America are) let God correct them on that. Judgement day for every nation is on the schedule for that sin. However, to the greater point; when the LORD gave his aforementioned promise to Abraham and those who would or would not bless Israel, He (God) did not amend the promise with such exceptions as you make regarding treatment of “the Palestinians” or other sins. God is well able to address those issues without our help. As for me I will continue to follow God’s directive to “bless those who bless Israel”.
No bitterness here, just clarification. May God bless you and all readers here with the knowledge of His grace and marcy in Christ Jesus.
Tim, you have completely–and falsely–misstated my words of “disagreeing with their policy towards Palestinians” as “preference for the protection of the Palestinians (Hamas, Iran, Syria, etc)” .
Do not put words in my mouth. It is dishonest.
Christians are instructed–and indeed obliged–to examine moral issues on their merit according to the guidance of Scripture, without a superseding fealty to any one country or group, or even point in time. The state of Israel’s policies change according to their own elected political leadership. Is our morality to change with them? Netanyahu can barely win a majority in his own country. So do we support the Jews that support him or the Jews that oppose him? In “blessing Israel” by blessing his current policies are you also “cursing” the Jewish people who disagree with him? What if his opponent–with different policies towards Palestinians–wins next time?
The basic problem here is that when you remake a spiritual injunction as a political one, you end up at these kind of conundrums, and ultimately at moral relativism.
The instruction to “bless” does not require Christians to provide blanket support without criticism for the policies of the current political leadership of Israel any more than it would require us to look back at someone like King Ahab without criticism or judgment, simply because he was a “leader of Israel” and we must “bless Israel”. We are never asked to leave the moral standards of Scripture at the door for ANY leader, country, or political party.
I do not support the state of Israel’s current policy towards state-funded abortion.
I also do not support the state of Israel’s current policy towards the Palestinians.
This is not a thread about either of those things, however, so I will not respond further.
Yes, I’m adding to the tangent. 😄 Re: “Bless Israel”, I wonder if it simply means we are to honor and recognize God has chosen a land for His People, and its city Jerusalem will be preserved (the New Jerusalem) in Revelation. As to the people and their policies past and present, the fact that the Jews are human and messy and often wrong is all there in the Bible, from Abraham’s family, to Exodus and the books of Kings and Chronicles and on. They were immoral, they were awful, God even likened them to a prostitute (Hosea marrying Gomer) who left Him constantly. But (like Hosea) they were wed to Him, and even she abandoned Him he could not abandon her. The Jews were exiled from their land (the Babylonian captivity) and yet they returned. And then after the likely worst atrocity in their history (the Holucaust) the nation of Israel is founded in 1947. No. She ain’t perfect. But God has decided to preserve and redeem her, for she is His Own.
I was a fan of dc Talk when they first came on the scene. My brother and I had their first album. Back then, Kevin Max went by Kevin Smith, and TobyMac was known as Toby McKeehan. It looks more than just names have changed since then.
Kevin is “ Pro-LBGTQIA”. Oops He forgot to include CIA and KGB. On a slight tangent, I saw on the news there’s a secular band who’ve come to realize they identify as plural, despite sharing a singular biological entity. I was all, like, SMH and LOL when I noticed them using the inaccurate pronouns “I” and “me” in their pronouncements.
Re Kevin Max’s statements, it sounds like he’s trying to signal he’s in the “cool-club”, the (usually secular) “in-crowd” who gives you “points” for being “Pro-LBGTQIA, Pro-BLM, Pro-open mindedness Anti-narrow mindedness Pro-Utopia” [huh? What does he mean by that?] “Anti-White Nationalist Agenda, Pro-equality, Pro-Vax et al.
It’s all a political symbol, and pandering to the tribalism of the day which makes people think they’re cool, but it doesn’t. It’s just slogans.
Whatever end it’s from.
Because you can be yourself and pro God’s Truth without falling for a political spirit like Max here.
No political idol, activist group, your sexual agenda, or vaccine or special phrases are going to save you.
Only Christ can.
How different his #exevangelical journey seems from Christian musicians who are actually searching, like Gungor who says they have trouble believing that the Bible Stories (like the Ark) are true, or singer Audrey Assad who has been on a very messy journey of late, with God. People who aren’t giving upon Christianity per se, yet rather disenchanted with the traditions they encountered. I think a growing number of us are hungry for true encounters with Christ.
I hope Max finds that.
He won’t find it in politics or any people group.
I hope he finds Jesus Messiah again.
Im called to love/serve, God is called to judge, the Holy Spirit to convict. Thankyou Mr Billy Graham for keeping things simple, like Jesus does. Everyone sins, everyone falls down.
We “Christians” chase so doggone many people away with our self righteousness and self righteous beliefs…which we often describe as “biblical.”
Forget Billy Graham, although God bless him. He was just a man, folks. As are you and me. Keep your eyes on Jesus and the 2 things he primarily taught.
Amy…will you add this post to every single story on this site, please??
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