On August 18, 2002, prominent radio pastor and author, John MacArthur, took time during an evening service to address a grave matter at his 8,000-member Grace Community Church (GCC) in Sun Valley, California.
A woman at GCC was living in sin, MacArthur alleged. And though shaming her publicly was âsad,â MacArthur said it was necessary to maintain fidelity to God and His Word.
So, as men were distributing the elements for communion, MacArthur stated: âI want to mention a sad situation, a person who is unwilling to repent. And the church bears responsibility before God to be the instrument of discipline. . . . This is what the Lord wants. He wants discipline . . . to be put out of the church, to be publicly shamed, to be put away from fellowship. In this case it applies to Eileen Gray.â
According to MacArthur, Grayâs sin was that she had decided “to leave her husband, to grant no grace at all, to take the children, to go away, to forsake him.â This, MacArthur emphasized, meant rejecting âall the instruction and counsel of the elders, all instruction from the Word of God.â
MacArthur then encouraged the church to pray for Eileen and to âtreat her as an unbelieverâfor all we know, she may be.â
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He also urged the church to pray for her husband, David Gray, who taught music and Bible to children at Grace Community Church (GCC) from 1994 to 2001. âPray for David, for the sympathy and compassion and the lovingkindness of God to be his portion.â
MacArthur then invited the church to sing, âAmazing Grace.â
Today, David Gray is serving 21 years to life in a California prison for his 2005 convictions for aggravated child molestation, corporal injury to a child, and child abuse.
But at the time of Eileenâs shaming, Eileen had not yet reported her husbandâs physical and mental abuse to police. (She was not yet aware of his sexual abuse.)Â
Instead, she had reported the abuse to elders and pastors at GCC.
Eileen also had not left her husband. In August 2002, Eileen was still living with her children in the Graysâ home about 1.5 miles from the church.
Eileen had, however, filed legal separation and restraining orders against David due to his repeated abuse of her and her children, as well as his alleged stalking and threats to kill them and himself. At the time of the shaming, Eileen had obtained a court order requiring that David’s visits with the children be monitored and restricting him from coming within 100 yards of Eileen.
As Eileen explained in an exclusive interview with The Roys Report, she went to GCC elders, hoping they would protect her and her children and get David professional help.
Instead, she says the church subjected her to spiritually abusive counseling and used church discipline to try and coerce her to take David back into the familyâs home.
John MacArthur shames Eileen Gray on August 18, 2002:
Eileen said Carey Hardy, a former GCC associate pastor and personal assistant to John MacArthur, told her she needed to model for her children how to âsuffer for Jesusâ by enduring Davidâs abuse.
The Roys Report repeatedly reached out to MacArthur and Hardy, whoâs now senior pastor of Twin City Bible Church, for comment but they did not respond.
When Eileen refused to take David back, GCC sent her multiple letters over several months in 2001-2002, which she recently provided to The Roys Report. The letters threaten Eileen with church discipline if she fails to comply with the eldersâ request to drop the protective order against David and take him back.
When the letters failed to change Eileenâs stance, John MacArthur publicly shamed Eileen twiceâonce in May 2002 and again in August 2002.
Eileen told The Roys Report that MacArthur never spoke with her before, during, or after the shamings.
In the months between her shamings, GCC members and staff repeatedly harassed and visited Eileen at home, urging her to obey the elders, according to Eileen and dozens of pages of court documents obtained by The Roys Report.
For all this time, Eileen has remained silent about her ordeal out of concern for her minor children. She added that she feared backlash from Christians in her community, who revere MacArthur and GCC.
But now, Eileenâs children are adults. And for the sake of vulnerable women and children at GCCâand at the many churches and institutions influenced by MacArthurâsheâs speaking now.
Despite being mandated by California law to report child abuse, GCC never reported David Grayâs abuse to authorities, according to Nancy Nelson, a retired Los Angeles Police Department Detective (LAPD) who investigated David Grayâs case. Nelson told The Roys Report that Eileen Gray reported David Grayâs abuse to LAPD in 2003, leading to Davidâs trial and conviction in 2005.
In 2004, two staff pastors at GCC were written up by LAPD for their alleged mishandling of David Grayâs abuse. Â
Carey Hardy was charged with two misdemeanorsâfailing to report child abuse and intimidating a witnessâEileen Gray. The other pastor, Bill Shannon, who currently leads GCCâs biblical counseling ministry, was not charged but ordered to appear at a city attorney hearing.
Court records show Hardyâs case was âdismissed or not prosecutedâ in February 2005.
The reason Hardy’s case was dismissed is not clear.
However, Dr. Albert Mohler, president of The Southern Baptist Seminary and current WORLD Magazine opinion editor, confirmed to The Roys Report that he wrote a paper for Hardyâs defense in 2004 at GCCâs request. The paper argued that Hardy should be exempt from reporting Grayâs abuse based on religious freedomâan argument Mohler said he would not make today.
“Daddy hurt me”
Eileen says David Gray emotionally and physically abused her and her children for years. But she didnât realize the severity of his child abuse until May 10, 2001. Thatâs when Eileen woke up early in the morning to muffled cries and yelling, according to a transcript of Eileenâs testimony at Davidâs trial obtained by The Roys Report.
Eileen testified that she went to the living room of the familyâs home, where she found David holding a belt and one of her children crying with disheveled hair. When confronted, David told Eileen that God had made him the authority and that his child âneeds more pain,â Eileen testified.
Following the incident, this child walked with a limp, became very withdrawn, and began pulling hair out, according to Eileenâs testimony. Eileen added that when she asked her child what happened, her child simply said, âDaddy hurt me.â
But about a month later, this child told Eileen that David had repeatedly hit the child in the head with a toy and kicked the child, Eileen testified. Eileen added that the child said David had also put a sleeping bag over the childâs head. The battered child, and the Grayâs other children who witnessed the incident, claimed that their daddy was trying to kill them, Eileen testified.
The day after learning these details, Eileen found a lawyer and filed a legal separation and restraining order against David.
Eileen testified that she then met with GCC Pastor Bill Shannon and another GCC leader and told them about her husbandâs abuse.
Eileen told The Roys Report that in this first meeting, Shannon did not offer to help. Instead, he accused Eileen of sinning by going to the law against a brother, Eileen said. Shannon added that the protective order violated 1 Corinthians 7:10, which instructs women not to separate from their husbands, Eileen testified.
However, two days after that meeting, Shannon met privately with David, and then the church arranged for Eileen to stay with a church family until the protective order went into effect. Eileen testified in court that as a condition of receiving this help from GCC, the church required her and David to attend marriage counseling with Carey Hardy.
Hardy has an M.Div. from The Masterâs Seminary but no professional counseling credentials.
During the first counseling session, which included Shannon and Hardy, David admitted he kicked one of the coupleâs children and tried to suffocate the child, Eileen testified. She added that David said it all happened âso fast,â and he didnât know it was wrong in the moment.
In subsequent counseling sessions, David presented Hardy with a handwritten, four-page list of âsinsâ against Eileen and his children, Eileen said. On one of these pages obtained by The Roys Report, David admits he used a âbelt & rod way too harshlyâbrutallyâ on a child. He also says he âtied upâ and âlocked upâ the child and was not always âadequately dressedâ in the childâs presence.
According to Eileen, Hardy refused to take or read Davidâs list.
The Roys Report reached out to Shannon and Hardy, specifically asking about these events, but they did not respond.
However, in an official court declaration in 2002 concerning Eileenâs legal separation from David Gray, Hardy stated: âI am of the opinion that Eileen simply doesnât like David . . . and is using what she alleges to have happened with the children as leverage to put David out of their lives.â
Hardy accused Eileen in the declaration of having âa tendency to exaggerateâ and exercising âfaulty logic and irrational thinking.â
In contrast, Hardy said David Gray was âfairly laid backâ and that after several monitored visits between David and his children, âour church concluded that monitors were not necessary.â
Nevertheless, in the summer of 2001, GCC decided not to renew Davidâs teaching contract with the church.
Eileen stated in an official court reply to Hardyâs declaration that Hardy and Shannon met with her to announce their decision to end Davidâs employment.
At that meeting, Shannon suggested sending David to Los Angeles Unified School District, Eileen testified. She added that when she objected because David was a child abuser, Shannon replied that since a âchild abuse indexâ hadnât been filed, David could still get a job teaching. Eileen testified that Shannon also stated that L.A. Unified never calls the church for a reference.
David Gray was hired by L.A. Unified School District in September 2001 and taught music to elementary school-aged children there until his arrest in 2004, according to a LAPD press release.
“Suffer like Jesus”
In her testimony at David Grayâs trial, Eileen stated that she repeatedly asked GCC to provide professional counseling for her and David. She testified she was told by GCC leaders that professional counseling is âworldlyâ and wrong.
Hardy counseled Eileen to forgive David âeven if he wasnât repentant,â Eileen testified. âHe would teach me over and over âthe threefold promise of forgivenessâ . . .â she stated, âwhere you act as though it never happened, and you never bring it up again, and you never tell anyone about it.â
This threefold promise is explained in detail in a booklet on forgiveness by John MacArthur, which is sold by MacArthurâs broadcast ministry, Grace to You.
Eileen also testified that Hardy urged her to allow David back into the familyâs home and to model for the children how to âsuffer for Jesusâ by enduring Davidâs abuse. Eileen stated that she was willing to endure the abuse herself but was not willing to allow her children to be abused, so she refused.
With permission from all parties involved, Eileen recorded her counseling sessions with Hardy. Eileen shared the recordings with the pastor who officiated her wedding to David, Alvin B. Barber, Jr.âformer pastor of Sunrise Bible Fellowship in Northern California. (Barber passed away in 2008.)
In a written declaration to a California Superior Court, Barber corroborated Eileenâs account.
âI have listened to one of the counseling sessions on tape between Carey Hardy, David, and Eileen and found that Eileen was being told to just accept her husband as he was and submit to him, even in spite of his admitted abuse of her and their children,â Barber wrote. âThankfully Eileen has chosen the legal protection of herself and her children over the obvious intimidation and questionable counsel of Carey Hardy and Grace Community Church.â
In November 2001, Eileen wrote GCC and requested that the church remove her from its membership.
GCC denied Eileenâs request.
Letters, harassment, and stalking
On November 27, 2001, Carey Hardy sent Eileen a letter on behalf of GCCâs elders.
The elders âdonât automatically remove someone from membership when we believe that we have a responsibility to help that individual resolve issues in his/her life,â the letter stated. âIn this situation, we definitely do believe that we should maintain our role in helping you and David reconcile. For that reason we are leaving your membership status intact.â
The letter adds âthere are no longer sufficient reasons for the two of you to stay apartâ and urges Eileen to âforgive David, allow him to move back home, and once again follow his leadership as Scripture teaches.â
It also states, âIt is now time to trust God to use your marriage to David to make you more like Christ. This is a more significant level of trust than simply trusting God to change your husband. . . . Itâs a crossroads related to your own relationship with the Lord, a crossroads in your relationship to your husband, and a crossroads related to your role as a mother.â
A letter from GCC on March 13, 2002 threatens Eileen with church discipline if she doesnât change course.
âSince you are refusing to forgive David and allow him to return home where he can put biblical change into action, we are left with nothing to conclude but that you want something else besides what Scripture teaches,â the letter states.
â. . . Though you are ignoring the shepherding role in your life that God requires from our church, we must still choose to follow the mandate of Matthew 18, verse 17, if you persist in preventing the restoration of your family.â
Matthew 18:17 says that if someone refuses to repent of his sin, the sin should be told to the church and the person treated like âa pagan or tax collector.â
The letter from GCC also states that it âhas become obvious . . . that David is not a âmental caseââ and âdoesnât need a âpsychological evaluation.â He is a sinner who can, by Godâs grace, change and grow.â
During the time she was receiving these letters from GCC, Eileen said David repeatedly threatened to kill her and her children and to take his own life.
David also stalked Eileen at home on numerous occasions between July 2001 and May 2002 in violation of his restraining order, according to court declarations by Eileenâs neighbors, Carlos Tobar and Wilbur Rodriguez.
Eileen said she also received pressure by GCC members to obey GCCâs elders.
On April 25, 2002, Eileen said she received a surprise, late-night visit from a couple at GCCâGeorge Bonsangue, who was a student at The Masterâs Seminary, and his wife, Priscilla.
In an account for David Grayâs trial, Eileen wrote that Bonsangue and his wife entered her home at 10:15 p.m. and told her she was âin sinâ because she had separated from her husband and had left the church without the eldersâ permission. When Eileen told the couple about Davidâs abuse, Bonsangue and his wife reportedly offered to take Eileenâs children so Eileen could âobey the biblical mandates for marriage,â Eileen wrote.
She added that when she refused their offer, George Bonsangue became âangrierâ and the couple left her home around midnight.
The Roys Report spoke with Priscilla and George Bonsangue, whoâs currently pastoring Grace Baptist Church in Wilmington, California.
The couple confirmed they went to Eileenâs house late one night in April 2002.
âWe just wanted to help (David and Eileen) reconcile,â Priscilla said. She added that she had babysat the Grayâs children and never saw anything that made her suspicious of David. âI wondered if . . . she imagined (the abuse) or was just making things up, or just mad at him.â
The Bonsangues said they donât remember offering to take Eileenâs kids or mentioning anything about Eileen fulfilling âthe biblical mandates for marriage.â Priscilla said it was just âan understood thingâ that Priscilla was willing to babysit, if needed.
Five days after the Bonsanguesâ 2002 visit, GCC sent another letter to Eileen.
âYou have yet to provide any biblical justification for your anger towards your husband,â the letter stated, âand you still reject the counsel of the elders and others who are concerned for your well-being.â
â. . . If you desire to meet with us to express your willingness to repent, we stand ready to help. If we donât hear from you in this regard, however, we must proceed with the Lordâs instructions and convey your sin to the church at the next communion service on Sunday May 19, 2002.â
On that date, John MacArthur reportedly shamed Eileen in front of his congregation for the first time.
The next morning, Eileen said a mother of one of Davidâs students at GCC came to her house upset because MacArthur had reportedly stated that âdeath may followâ Eileenâs shaming.
At the time, Eileen was being treated for cancer.
Eileen said the woman was âshockedâ by MacArthurâs statements and didnât agree with them.
Over the next three months, the pressure and harassment from GCC members and staff intensified, according to Eileen and a declaration by Eileenâs neighbor.
On May 21, 2002âtwo days after the shamingâDavid came to Eileenâs house with two men in a blue Honda, Wilbur Rodriguez wrote in his declaration.
According to Eileen, Carlos Tobar, who also witnessed the incident, recorded the Hondaâs license plate number, which was registered to a car driven by Hardyâs personal assistant at GCC. Eileen said she called the assistant soon afterwards, and he admitted to watching her house with David.
The Roys Report tried to locate the assistant for comment but was unsuccessful.
About a week after the shaming, Eileen said a close friendâaffectionately called âAunt Donnaâ by her childrenâcame to her home. The friend had been given a key to Eileenâs house, but reportedly returned the key and told Eileen she wouldnât be back.
âShe told me to obey the elders,â Eileen told The Roys Report. âIt was heartbreaking. All of itâs heartbreaking. She was the last person I thought would say, âI donât even care.â . . . She didnât say that but that was her demeanor.â
Eileen said many other GCC members delivered a similar message, either by letter or in person.
In a handwritten letter dated June 5, 2002, obtained by The Roys Report, the wife of a current professor at The Masterâs Seminary wrote: âI know it must be very difficult to do what the elders at Grace Community Church ask you to do, and I pray that you will joyfully submit to their leadership . . . It is what the Bible asks of you, Eileen.â
The woman also urged Eileen to reunite with her husband and submit to him, stating, âEven if David is sinning or is not a believer, this is still your spiritual duty.â
On August 8, 2002, Eileen received another letter from GCC.
â(I)n spite of the failures on Davidâs part as a husband and a father, it has become increasingly apparent that the greatest reason for the turmoil in the lives of your children, in the life of your husband, and in your own life is your refusal to forgive David, to support him in his attempts to change his thinking and behavior, and to reconcile with him.â
The letter states, â(T)he elders have concluded that you have no genuine desire to see your family restored.â It adds that GCC would announce publicly at an upcoming service that Eileen was being been removed from fellowship.
The evening of August 18, 2002, MacArthur preached a sermon with dire warnings about the severity of Godâs discipline. The sermon is still posted online.
â(S)ometimes the punishment can be so severe that the person dies,â MacArthur stated in the sermon. âIn the Corinthian church, there were some people who were weak and some were sick and some were dead because their sins were manifest at the Lordâs Table, remember that?â
Then, before administering communion and shaming Eileen, MacArthur urged his listeners to confess their sins so they âwonât suffer the discipline.â
Excerpt of MacArthur’s Aug. 18, 2002, sermon before Eileen’s shaming:
Eileen, who attended the service, said she felt comforted by Jesus throughout the entire ordeal.
âHe bore the shaming with me,â she said. âI felt I wasnât alone. And I felt very triumphant because (MacArthur) lies. The whole thing was lies.â
A few weeks later, a Los Angeles court granted Eileen a legal separation from David Gray. With her husbandâs consent, she moved 500 miles away from GCC to her hometown and a church that welcomed her into fellowship.
The next year, Eileen learned that David had not only physically, emotionally, and verbally abused her children, but had sexually abused them, as well. She then reported her husbandâs abuse to LAPD.
Even then, GCC did not defend and support Eileen, but instead rallied behind her husband.
The Roys Report describes the rest of Eileenâs story in a follow-up article. Click here to read.
Correction: The original version of this article stated that Shannon and Hardy were arrested for failing to report child abuse and intimidating a witness. The LAPD report obtained by TRR says the two were “cleared by arrest,” which means they were either arrested, ordered to appear at a city hearing, or ordered to appear at a court hearing. Shannon was ordered to appear at a city hearing, but not charged. Hardy was charged and ordered to appear in court.
GCC Letters to Eileen Gray:
GCC Letters to Eileen Gray_RedactedJohn MacArthur shames Eileen Gray on August 18, 2002 (with Spanish subtitles)
English 
Spanish
272 Responses
Oh my word, I know the Bonsangues. They briefly pastored a church we attended.
We left because he was uber Calvinistic. They were odd. My sister called him “Boris Karloff.”
This is no surprise, sadly and most likely the tip of the iceberg. My family and many I know have had similar treatment from a MacArthur âaffiliatedâ church in Jupiter, Florida. Authoritative threatening letters if you disagree at all with any âpastorsâ or âeldersâ even if something is unbiblical. So sad, but thankful that truth always stands – Jesus is THE TRUTH. Bless that brave woman and her precious children.
This would be called spiritual abuse which I have been subjected to several times.
Wow. This is some good journalism, and heartbreaking at the same time. I have some experience with the culture of GCC (family member who is a MacArthur follower) and can say I’m not surprised at the absolute belief by so many there that they are right and anyone who opposes them are wrong. That aspect is more or less baked into the culture. Even so, it’s shocking how far they took it in this case.
Also shocking is how selective the “biblical” arguments were in this case. Apparently there was no recognition of a husband’s obligation to love his wife as Christ loves the church, or that the covenant of marriage was broken the second abuse occurred.
Yes, it is typical that many men in these types of churches (although it can be subtle) seem to focus on the women being submissive rather than striving to simply worry about the role Christ gave them to love and be kind to their wives. So thankful for my strong and kind husband – a true godly man is a gift from God as is a godly woman who will not allow herself or her children to be abused.
Sorry to say, that it is that way in a majority of the churches. I understand Eileen and why she waited. Her and the children had went through enough trauma. By waiting, she was protecting them all from continued abuse. David, along with the church leaders, along with anyone who will believe these men and keep allowing all kinds of abuse to continue, “needs” mental health counseling. The church abuses women who are trying to reach out and seek help, by ignoring and punishing them. Personally, ‘The Church’ has turned so many women away from wanting to attend church, due to how they have been and are treated. Then, having to be in them watching and hearing the people there going on and on about “how great their husband is and what good he does. Nauseating. They have no idea of how he is and what all he does, when away from the church. All church leaders and members, along with City Leaders, Social Workers, Doctors need to sign-up and go through this and get educated in the issues that people are doing, going through and having to live with on a daily basis. Then, have ‘The Church’ shame the women who are the one’s trying to be heard, understood and believed. The first one, both men and women are to go through.
https://www.braveheartsuniversity.com/
This one is only for the women.
https://www.bravefulsociety.org/
This makes me so angry. I would like to say this doesn’t happen in other churches, but it does. I am a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist and a Christian. There is a huge movement now in churches to not trust Licensed counselors, because they are “secular”. Now there is Biblical counseling surge and these counselors are not licensed. The situation described in this article should only be treated by a licensed professional. First, of all a licensed professional would have reported the abuse, we are mandated reporters. Second, couples where violence has occurred is never recommended. The abuser receives individual counseling and the victim receives individual counseling. Marital counseling only occurs when the abuser is truly repentant, not just words, but in actions as well. A long separation is needed to see if change is lasting or just an attempt to get back in the home. I’m incredibly thankful that Eileen found a loving, welcoming church. Many women in this situation reject God and never return to church. If the church represents God and that is the way the church acts, then I do not want a part of God. My final comment, would you seek medical advice from an unlicensed doctor? Then, why should you seek advice from an unlicensed professional, especially in a matter this serious.
Totally agree with you Kimberly. Several years ago the law had changed that you cannot even call yourself a pastoral counselor if you are not licensed. There is such spiritual abuse happening in the church today sad to say.
Thank you for your insight and contribution to the discussion, Kimberly. I have provided pastoral counseling for over 20 years and have seen my share of unqualified Christian counselors. They can do great damage. Your example is spot on.
Peter, unfortunately I have as well. It always makes me extremely angry and very sad. I work so hard to encourage the client to separate God from the church’s evil action. I also share that God weeped over this even more than you did and is angry.
Kimberly M. Chastain, you made many good points. I feel angry about this situation, too. It is another example of church leaders behaving in heavy-handed, hypocritical ways — and twisting scripture in the process. Do Christians have any recourse to such spiritual and ministerial malpractice — other than leaving an awful church (and praying)?
As was stated in the article the pastors should have been charged with failure to report. I’m wondering if a church or the pastor can be sued for counseling without a license? Often, pastors can have an exclusion. Yet, harm was called. I have had wise pastors who refer to me say, “If I cannot be effective in 2-3 sessions, then I refer to you.” I think that is a good point to consider.
@ Kimberly Chastain
First off, I appreciate what you had to say. However, I do want to interject here to present a different perspective about counseling. I’m not a licensed counselor and yet know enough to know that this situation was handled abysmally. Under such circumstances, she would be the one driving the ship. Her protection and that of her children would have been the foremost consideration, not whether her husband was reconciliation material.
I don’t believe there’s a Biblical standard anywhere that would require her to stay in such a situation. Just plain common sense has to be factored into the equation at some point. I also believe divorce is allowed in such situations as the husband has actually been the one who abandoned his wife, not vice versa.
I know of others who actually are licensed Biblical counselors who would recommend the same course of action. I say that to say that not all Biblical counselors fail in the counsel they give. I also know of someone who was victimized by a licensed therapist, a Harvard grad no less, who proved about as useful as a horseshoe on a bicycle.
I think it depends on the person and their gifting, but being licensed doesn’t necessarily make someone competent. I’m sure you know that’s true in multiple disciplines. I’ve had my own very bad experiences with the medical profession, but everyone was licensed. I hope this doesn’t sound critical or argumentative as neither one are intended.
Peter, I appreciate your comments. I would say where I live, in the southeast, it is still pretty set that adultery and physical abuse are a reason for a divorce within the church. Emotional abuse is not. I praise Eileen for her decisions, yet in my experience a woman who has been beaten down emotionally and physically by her abuser often has super low self-esteem and not much energy to leave. If the elders tell her to stay she will. I have seen that before.
I agree their can be bad licensed therapists as well. My concern is with unlicensed Biblical counselors. You can go to school or take classes online. You do not have to do 2,000 hours of supervised therapy. You do not have to take an exam. I’m all for Biblical counselors addressing spiritual issues, but not abuse, trauma, depression, etc.
I have been a therapist for over 34 years now (I like to say I started when I was 5, because that sounds so old). To this day I have to beg Christians to talk to their physicians about anti-depressants or anti-anxiety meds. Clients will tell me their pastors, friends at church, etc. if they pray about their situation or figure out the sin in their life they will be fine and don’t need meds. I have also had to hospitalize some of those same people when they become suicidal.
I did not see you as critical or argumentative. I hope I did not sound like “all” Biblical counselors are bad. I will say unlicensed Biblical counselors need to be very careful which clients they accept. They could be in over their heads rather quickly. I refer when I do not think a client is in my area of expertise.
@ Kimberly Chastain
Thanks for your reply. I have a thing about anything that sounds like a generalization. In certain contexts the words “always” and “never” get under my skin just a little bit. I blame my parents.????
@ Kimberly Chastain
I also wanted to add that there are multiple things in life that are not for the feint of heart. Counseling is one of those things, so you have my utmost respect for giving more than three decades to the healing of damaged souls.
Peter a “good” therapist I know says to never use always and never!!????ââïž????Someone broke her own rule! Thank you for your kind words. I do think there is such a thing as cumulative compassion fatigue. I certainly feel it some days.
@ Kimberly Chastain
I have no idea what it must be like to repeatedly view the chaos behind the curtain of relationships that have the appearance of peace and tranquility.
Having watched the aftereffects of childhood trauma play out over many years, I know for some the stains will never completely disappear. God’s grace and mercy are sufficient, but the scars remain.
This does not really surprise me knowing what I know of John MacArthur, as according to him as a Charismatic believer, he feels that I do not belong even in the body of Christ, and that I am demon controlled. It would be best if GCC shuttered their doors.
Yes. He writes off all Catholics as well. I’m not ready to cross the Tiber myself, but I have numerous friends who are Catholic and are solid believers. With MacArthur and some other groups, they seem to keep narrowing the scope of who is saved until eventually (surprise, surprise) it’s just them and their groupies. I don’t get it. Preach the gospel, sure, but there’s no need to go so far out of one’s way to exclude and demonize those who are even a little different. Yikes.
What is it about abusers that makes authoritarian pastors reflexively defend them? What is it about victims that makes authoritarian pastors dismiss them? What is described in the article is not the life of the body of Christ; rather, what is described is a way of establishing the pecking order, it is the kind of “grace” found in a chicken coop.
Great question – Iâve been thinking the same thing. I think the answer may be that the authoritarian wants to control the behavior, information, thoughts, and emotions of his followers. The authoritarian doesnât allow an abused wife to leave her husband because that is a demonstration of freedom of will and mind on the wifeâs part that the authoritarian finds abhorrent. The authoritarian himself MUST make the decisions; HE must control his followersâ lives. Thatâs why the authoritarian supports the abuser; it is not reality which determines the right thing to do, it is the authoritarian – HE determines reality for his followers.
I think this is also what is going on with MacArthurâs resistance to COVID protocols and anything other than âbiblicalâ counseling. He simply canât stand a governmental authority telling him or his followers what to do. Similarly, he must control the counseling process to allow only the outcomes he has approved. HE must be in control at all times. He uses Scripture as camouflage for authoritarian control. God have mercy on him, seriously.
They are striving towards the ultimate theoretical end state of Protestantism:
THE ONE TRUE CHURCH OF ONLY ONE.
AKA “Us Four, No More, A-Men” minus three.
Calvinist A.W.Pink actually achieved this goal decades ago.
Catholism is not a little different. If people believe dead Mary can pray for them with no biblical basis, along with a host of questionable beliefs, it needs to be pointed out. I will not wait for a pastor to do that, I’ll be teaching my kids why Catholism in many of it’s beliefs are unbiblical. I even once heard a Catholic Bishop say, the threat to christianity is not Muslims, but charismatism. How spot on, even though they too have a lot of questionable unbiblical man made beliefs.
Diet Pepsi is to sugar Pepsi, what Johnny MacArthur is to Mormonism. MacArthur is âMormon lightââŠâŠ..all the legalism without the Book of Mormon. And while we are on the topic of Protestant cults, Macarthurâs subtle twist of having to display your Christianity has destroyed people. Free GraceâŠâŠ.itâs not rocket science people.
Not disputing the information but why did it take TWENTY YEARS for this to be revealed? Also, was John MacArthur allowed any rebutal of the information, as good journalism requires?
It says in the article that Eileen waited to speak out until her children were all adults.
The following paragraph is found in the article:
The Roys Report repeatedly reached out to MacArthur and Hardy, whoâs now senior pastor of Twin City Bible Church, for comment but they did not respond.
Also, your choice of words shows you do not understand the pain, trauma, and embarrassment that victims go through, and some never say anything, ever. Maybe, Raymond, you should read other peoples accounts of spiritual, emotional and sexual abuse at the hands of spiritual authorities and thus not be so amazed that it took TWENTY YEARS. Like Eileen said, she was protecting her children. Her family was deeply hurt and re-traumatized by this churches spiritual, authoritarian and moral bankruptcy. Might I add, illegal cover-up. They just were not prosecuted. Lets see if anyone apologizes to Eileen and her family. As far as rebuttals go, there is the court documentation and correlative eyewitnesses, and video footage.
Her children are all adults now, she was in mama bear mode and was protecting them from further abuse. Now that they are grown she felt it was time. As a victim of clergy abuse I understand how terrifying it is wondering if your community of believers will believe you. Thankfully, in my case my elders believed me and put the pastor in question out of the church.
The question shouldnât be why she waited to tell her story though, the question should be how this could happen.
The article noted that MacArthur never spoke with the wife, before, during or after the events that unfolded in his church. With over eight thousand members I wonder if he was made fully aware of what the elders were doing in that case or how much (accurate) information he was given before he shamed her before the congregation.
I feel sick.
They were not asking her to âsuffer for the sake of Jesus.â
They were asking her to suffer to promote the cause of Satan. Iâm not exaggerating. Jesus would have nothing to do with an effort to completely erase a manâs murderous sins against his own family that he is called to love and protect. The church should have been protecting that poor woman and her children. Thank God He gave her assurance of faith in the middle of such horrible gaslighting by a âchurch.â
And I feel sickest because I used to subscribe to this marriage permanence view myself. Now I understand that this does not reflect Godâs heart toward his beloved children. He doesnât sanction marital abuse and child rape in a familyâs own home. The conservative church has gotten this dead wrong, and we need to repent and wise up. Marriage vows should always be taken seriously, yes. But we need to recognize that when abuse is involved, the abuser has already broken the marriage vows. Pulverized them, to be exact.
Rebecca, YES. The secondary abuse experienced by the church when she seeks help (because, you know, âGod hates divorceâ) is staggering. The survivor often loses âfriendsâ, family, and church in the process, and is led to believe she is leaving not only an unfaithful spouse, but God himself. That takes quite some courage, and a great deal of actual support.
God hates abuse even more than divorce. Look up âoppressionâ in a concordance and youâll see how often he denounces oppressors. But we tend to ignore those references in the conservative church.
Whenever I hear a preacher-man obsessed with “GAWD H&S DIVORCE!!!”, I always wonder if he’s a closet abuser himself and if he didn’t ring in God’s Wrath as his Enforcer his wife would leave him in an instant.
In reading of the position of the Church, Pastor and Elders it seems much more like a cult – control-oriented, only GCC knows what is Godâs will for your life. No wonder people are leaving the church in droves.
Thank you Julie for bringing to light the truth about John MacArthur! I am filled with disgust for his evil conduct as a minister of a church. Christians should not associate with anyone who conducts himself as John has done repeatedly. John needs to accept church discipline himself and repent for the many sins that would disqualify him from his position as a pastor.
I would very much encourage you all to read the book: When Narcissism Comes to Church: Healing Your Community From Emotional and Spiritual Abuse, March 17, 2020
by Chuck DeGroat. It is the cancer of narcissism infecting many churches that causes so much abuse. This is one of the BEST books I have read on the subject. If you know how to recognize a narcissistic pastor, you will know what to avoid. God Bless all of you as the darkness comes to light.
I second the recommendation, and would add “Something’s Not Right: Decoding the Hidden Tactics of Abuse–and Freeing Yourself from Its Power” by Wade Mullen. It deals more generally with abuse and how to recognize it.
Let there be light… and also accountability at all levels.
I am thankful that Eileen has chosen to make this story public; this takes so much courage and strength. I pray that she and her children will receive healing from this obvious spiritual abuse as well as the hell they had endured in their home from the husband and father who should have been their protector, not their abuser. Shame on each one who participated in this abusive behavior at the church that should have been a refuge for this vulnerable family.
Its a cult period. Any church that hires a masters seminary graduate or ex gty staff like DG is doomed. Expect your church to break or members thrown out if you disobey or simply disagree. Our church almost hired one and in hind sight God protected us from this. Macarthurites are never wrong, controlling, abusive, authoritarian, hypocritical and lovers of money. They have a quick to draw a line in the sand culture and its belief in a ĂŒbermensch man of the house with absolute authority is repressive and false teaching. Women/Wives MUST only submit period. They were sending a message to its entire membership that defying an elder or church staff has serious repercussions especially if you’re the wife or children and can only leave if you’re found…. Thank you JR for this expose. it made me sick to the bone just reading it, I had to stop a few times just to compose myself. Unfortunately being an ex GCC I can vouch for its veracity. Its a lot deeper…dig further.
Steve. Very informative post. The elephant in the room is the nasty theology of Lordship Salvation. It is pernicious. I have heard of people committing suicide because of this fruit inspection crap.
I am absolutely livid after reading that. The horror, injustice, and cruelty just did not stop.
Eileen, you are my hero. To have withstood that onslaught, to put your children’s safety first, at so much cost…I am standing and cheering for you. I’m so grateful that God was with you in that service, that you knew were not alone. He is so good. Thank you for telling your story. I hope you and your children are doing well now.
Julie, thank you for reporting these stories and for doing it with such thoroughness. May justice rain down.
The people I’ve met from John’s ministries have even at initial impression shown and eventually proven true to be deceptively greedy, void of grace, manipulative and simply liars. They say they love the doctrines of grace and will not hesitate to castigate anyone who disagree. They forgot that they were once depraved sinners and are still sinners living under grace but would deny anyone the same grace who disagrees under the pretense of loving the doctrines. They are under the illusion that loving the doctrines equals righteousness. their own failure and inability to walk consistently the doctrines makes them hypocrites or modern day pharisees. They will cover up the despicable acts of their own elders and staffs. Its a tribal culture and John has your back …if you scratch his. Just check out the sweetheart deals of “friends of John”, separation packages, loan forgiveness and you will find a can of worms. This story reminds me of the 90’s movie the puppet masters starring Sutherland. They are sending their graduates to churches to control and break. My heart goes out to Eileen and her children.
Why is it God can strike dead Annanias and Sapphira over a partial financial donation, but stands by indifferently as the many David Grays abuse women and children? Strange justice.
Not to detract from the import of your question, the answer to which is almost certainly beyond the scope of a comments section, they weren’t struck dead for a partial donation, but for the fact that they lied about it. When Peter confronts them, he makes it clear that the money was theirs to do with as they pleased, but that the issue was giving a part while falsely claiming they were giving it all.
Excellent question Matt. Can I rephrase it this way? What’s the difference between the early days of the church when the apostles were alive and healings, miracles and God’s direct intervention occurred, such as striking dead Ananias and Saphira for publicly lying and today, when we have no apostles, no miracles but we have the complete revelation of God, the Bible, including both the Old and the New Testament.
The New Testament did not exist while the apostles were alive. Apostolic authority ceased with the death of the last surviving apostle, John, who wrote the Gospel of John, and three epistles bearing his name and the book of Revelation. Failure to accept the Word of God as the sole and only authority produces the perverted justice when “a church “stands by indifferently as the many Grays abuse women and children”. Much has been learned during the past 20 years particularly about predators who groom those around them so that they can abuse children entrusted into their care. So its not surprising that elders at GCC were fooled by the child molester, Mr. Gray, who has been behind bars since 2004. Sadly this 2002 view of victims at GCC is the norm in most churches in 2022. “Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever” (Hebrews 13:8). Jesus expects local churches to obey all of Matthew 18 and to carry it out biblically. Elders and congregations need to be held accountable for failure to obey the law when it comes to abuse of children entrusted into the fellowship. The Los Angeles Police Department is to commended for arresting the responsible elders in 2004.
Iâd bet good money that the families of these types of pastors, including JM, are miserable in their existence.
The GCC advice given, and the behavior of leaders described above, are very discouraging. I could not help but wonder if the attitudes, advice and protocols have changed in the last 20 years. It appears to me that they may have. For example, I found this 2016 interview with John MacArthur in which he espouses a far more supportive and protective stance toward women experiencing abuse, including emotional abuse. Transcript is here: https://www.gty.org/library/sermons-library/GTY156/straight-talk-on-marriage-family-and-christian-living
Donât be fooled, these men are masters at changing what they say to continue to stay in power. They calculate, slander, and manipulate to look good and sound biblical when they are anything but that . . .donât be fooled!! If they were repentant, they would confess these things and forsake leading others. They love the lust of the eyes, the flesh, and the pride of life. Wolves proclaiming to be shepherds. But until you have seen it, it is very mind blowing to grasp.
Mark,
It is not a big surprise that he would flip flop. MacArthur is an opportunist. He can order, direct and participate in the spiritual abuse and public shaming of abuse victims like Eileen. But today, when the wind of society started blowing in a different direction, he says that abused spouses should leave and divorce.
He did the same with Trump. In the 2016 article you linked, MacArthur states:
“The destruction of the family is a horror, because itâs destroying civilization/society. And who is the most popular current republican candidate? A guy who has lived with a number of women who werenât his wife, lived with one woman while he was married, and has been married three times. Heâs going to be the President of the United States of America?”
Four years later, MacArthur announced: “Any real, true believer is going to be on (Trump’s) side in this election.”
So on one hand, he warned that supporting an unGodly and immoral leader like Trump will lead to the destruction of the family and of American society. But when the wind shifted he made the support of Trump a tenent of *true* salvation.
And the fact that MacArthur can support Trump today after all we have learned about him shows that he still does not believe sex abuse victims.
Thank you for sharing that, Mark. It does reflect something very different than what Eileen experienced. That said, if what happened to her was in the early 2000s, that is long after GCC was an established and influential church. Would you agree a humble apology is in order?
Wayne: Yes, I do. Although JM’s biblical exposition over many years has been helpful to me in my own Bible study on many occasions over the years, I have not felt like he exudes a broken and contrite heart, at least not publicly. He is rightfully articulate about the depth and power of sin in the world, yet he does not seem to inlcude himself as one who is affected by it.
Greg: I thought of those comments about the election, too. I wondered whether he took the stance he did, and was saying what he said, because he believed one choice was preferred over the other only because it was the less objectionable of two very poor options for president.
A casual listener of John for 4 decades now on Moody Radio, I have always felt his âGrace to Youâ programs should have been titled âShame on Youâ. His priggish self righteous tone seemed so absent of grace.
Lacking grace, Yes. Iâve long called his radio program, âLegalism To Youâ!
As often occurs, the wife was described (by a group of men) as irrational and overly emotional. The husband, in contrast, was viewed as “fairly laid back” despite his previous admission of not knowing right from wrong [the textbook definition of insanity] “in the moment.” Typical at cerebral churches that emphasize cognitive knowledge of correct doctrine while becoming allergic to the Holy Spirit. Any display of feelings renders a personal unreliable. Or worse . . . a charismatic!
I felt sick, sad, angry, remorseful , every emotion possible while reading this incredibly sad and disturbing account of how MacArthur and his church treated this poor lady and her children. It displayed every action possible of how a cultic church behaves. I was a staunch protector of MacArthur myself until fairly recently and I thank our Lord God for opening my eyes to how corrup this man and his church really is. Thankyou Julie for your articles and keep exposing this wickedness.
Ignorance is bliss but once the light is shinned onto activities like this those who attend and support Grace need to demand answers from Macarthur and staff. if those answers don’t come then those who remain attending and supporting Grace are in my mind condoning what happened.
OMG! its ok if the kids are beaten to pulp, wife emotionally abused and frightened to near break down all because JM is scared of losing his franchise and money should the scandalous abuse of his staff teaching music to children is exposed. So they refused her leaving the church and rewrote the narrative that Elaine is a bad too emotional wife, non submissive, refusing to forgive and trust God. Rick Holland did the same thing to the MU student rape victim, she must forgive, trust God, must not report to the police. Same pattern, same man behind the scene and sin. JM wouldn’t have cared about Elaine or David and their children if they were given the opportunity to let him go first and far. Elaine’s desperate plea became a threat to the establishment and everyone came to the aid of the goose that lays the golden egg.
Does anyone really believe that JM is not behind Carey or Bill’s trashing of Elaine ? when it didn’t work, JM delivered the final blow from the pulpit. There are just no words to describe the cruelty, depravity and duplicity of these people who claim to be servants of the living God.
If you’re reading this, never never ever trust an unlicensed biblical counsellor , most especially those who worships JM.
Elaine, thank you for your courage to stand firm in your faith in the face of sin, false ministers, fake piety. You are the true christian in this whole episode.
JM and his elders sought to silence Elaine, and one day will seek to silence more. Kool-aid is coming, wait for it.
Steve W, “its ok if the kids are beaten to pulp, wife emotionally abused and frightened to near break down.” But we can’t have this fellow teaching music to our own children at church, so let’s send him to the public schools without disclosing his crimes.
This is the most important point. They clearly knew what they were dealing with.
Hey, hey! Ho, ho! Christian Patriarchy has got to go!
In seriousness, though: Eileen Gray stood up to double betrayal, violence and spiritual abuse. Everything that was done to her in this situation sounds incredibly wounding. Something that stands out to me, though, is the fact that much of the abusive behavior by the church seems to have occurred AFTER she had told them she no longer wanted to be a member there (Nov 2001). They told her she couldnât resign, then kept sending her letters, sent people to her house, and escalated to publicly denouncing her. How is this not harassment?
she went back 500 miles, near to her family. Abuser do that, they take their spouse away from family. Glad she could go back. Where is love in all this story. ? By Eileen who wanted to protect her children ! and she received all the blame !
The behavior comes from the absurdity of the Magisterium concept that strongly permeates Catholicism. Calvinism, and Independent Fundamentalism. All groups have hierarchy, but the ones above enshrine it and make it sacramental.
When you consider how it plays out for 99% of the sheep, it streamlines life. Youâre told EXACTLY what to believe and how to behave. Counseling is simple, you must be sinning or God wants you to suffer, case closed. Thereâs the rub. The whole of the sheep have bee groomed to not see abuse and questionable behavior. And while most of the experience is bad form, daily life works for them.
But because the overall acceptance of lesser impact abuse has been ingrained as normal Godly behavior, the abuser can target a weaker or broken sheep and abuse horrific pain in plain sight of all people.
Thatâs the problem with our broken nature. Most people desire a strong leader. They donât have time to figure it all out. We also know people act sinful and need grace. But abusers prey on that and conflate those to hide from detection and awareness.
You need to forgive, which means not report a true crime⊠You need to stay married and be faithful even though he/she is not. God call âyouâ to suffer (rather than the abuser to stop and get treatment?)
@ Jim Bohrer
Reading your last paragraph, I wondered why church leaders insert themselves in these situations where I believe God allows for divorce. I know there are many who believe God made no allowances for divorce under any circumstances. I think this situation has Biblical support under abandonment and then there’s adultery.
Why this situation played out the way it did based on the information provided makes no sense to me. It’s like reporting an assault and being arrested because you were the victim.