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Dear Evangelicals: The REAL Reasons People Are Exiting Church

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Dear Evangelicals: The REAL Reasons People Are Exiting Church
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What are the real reasons people are leaving the church? Is it politics? Corruption? A desire to commit sins God forbids? Our guest today says for him—and for many he knows—it was none of those things. Rather, he had questions no one in church wanted to hear, let alone answer.

On this edition of The Roys Report, you’ll get to know Jamin Coller, a pastor’s son and former worship pastor who’s spent the past several years embedded in the so-called ex-vangelical community.

It’s a movement loosely comprised of folks who used to identify as evangelical, but no longer do. And, if they still attend church, it’s certainly not an evangelical congregation.

Jamin says there’s a great deal of misunderstanding between evangelicals and these ex-vangelicals. But there doesn’t have to be. To help build understanding between these two groups, Jamin has written Dear Evangelicals: The Real Reasons People are Exiting the Church.

This book is not necessarily one every listener will agree with—at least in its totality. But we’re highlighting it this month because we love ex-vangelicals. And we believe they have an important perspective to consider.

Filling in for host Julie Roys on this podcast is Lance Ford. Lance is a veteran pastor, church planter, and author. He’s also a member of The Roys Report board.

It’s to our benefit that Jamin has fully explored many core questions and concerns of ex-vangelicals. Now tune in for a lively dialogue as he speaks with Lance, whose firm grasp of Scripture and theological ability to apply it is expressed through a father’s heart.

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Guests

Jamin Coller

Jamin Coller is a seminary graduate and pastor’s kid who spent 30 years as a minister, worship pastor, Christian educator, and national speaker. Today, he consults with church leaders to help bridge the gap and provide insight into the minds of ex-vangelicals. He and his wife, Wendy, raise their six children in north-central California. Learn more at Jamin’s website, FindingGodDespiteReligion.com.

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36 Responses

  1. “They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us” -1 John 2:19

  2. About the podcast, why are people leaving the church…..a lot of talking on this, but I still don’t know why they are leaving. Tx. Gary Schotel

  3. Do you talk about people who have left evangelicalism but moved into Catholicism or Orthodoxy? I did that 20 years ago and liturgical expressions of Christianity are exploding with young people right now.

    1. Some strong youth in my church (Southern Baptist) left to become Anglicans and one became Catholic. They are done with fake and being entertained. They want the strong liturgy from centuries ago.

    2. I tried liturgical churches. I love liturgy, but they are very hierarchal and have their own set of problems. They are NOT exploding with new adherents. That’s a false perception.

      1. I can’t speak about our liturgical parishes, but our own Orthodox Church, and many more that I know about, have indeed received massive numbers of people who have left the evangelical churches. Our own parish has grown from 80 to 320 during the past four years, and that doesn’t include the 50 we sent out a year ago to start another parish in another part of the city (they’ve received another 25 people from the evangelical church since then). I myself am a former evangelical pastor who became Orthodox 25 years ago.

    3. Hi Martha, there was an article in the NYT newspaper how young man are gravitating toward orthodox churches because of it’s liturgy and it’s demands such as fasting and other spiritual exercises.

  4. Lance Ford’s past appearances on The Roys Report podcast have been interesting and insightful and this was no exception. I really appreciated him taking a different role as podcast host, especially covering this topic. If you have concerns about people leaving the church, this conversation is worth listening to.

    1. Agreed. This interview struck me as not truly about deconstruction but rather about a man who needs someone to genuinely care for his soul, validate his previous church hurt, and counsel him to disentangle God’s love from the trappings of religion and the psychological baggage often associated with being a pastor’s son or daughter. Instead of scolding Jamin Coller about theology, Lance Ford asked thoughtful questions and expressed respect for the guest. The tone of the interview was more important than its substance.

  5. I listened to the first 15 minutes and just couldn’t continue. If I met this guy (the guest) in a parking lot, and he shared this story, I would have one piece of advice: get by yourself, read the Bible, and ask God questions, the One who leads us into all truth. I would never rely on local people to provide deep truth, because most people are not deep, AND there will always be certain questions no one but God can answer. Brother, you have to grow up like the rest of us, mature in God, with God. That’s what will please Him. Not publicly agonizing about how people in your local area failed to answer questions.

    1. Well I agree completely with getting alone with God and reading the Bible I don’t think that is the simple solution. Although the Holy Spirit guides us as we read through scripture and helps us understand, at some point every believer needs a community where questions can be worked out among those who have deeper theological training and understanding. Part of the problem in the church is people reading scripture through their own interpretations.

      1. You mentioned a problem is people who read the Bible for themselves. That reminds me of the Dark Age, when the so-called church in Rome forbid commoners from reading the Bible in their native language. If I left my learning to local shepherds or local trained theologians I wouldn’t know what I know or be where I’m at.

        What of 2 Peter 3:16? Peter said “[Paul’s] letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.” Ignorant and unstable people distort the Bible. Some theologians and shepherds are themselves unstable because they doubt truth. (James 1:8)

  6. This was disappointing. I only heard one reason – killing homosexuals? Is that it? I have 7 reasons that pulpit and pew church is disobedient to God’s instructions for Church:
    1. 100% of giving goes BEYOND the givers. No giving is confused to buy hired staff or pulpit buildings which God did not ask for. 2 Corinthians 8 & 9. Pulpit and pew church on average sends 16% BEYOND the givers.
    2. 100% “ONE ANOTHER” communication. There are 56 instructions for this and none to teach one man lecturing the Bible in perpetual dependency. “Meeting together” is defined as “stirring up ONE ANOTHER to love and good works, ….and encouraging one another.” Hebrews 10:24-25.
    3. 100% MUTUAL relationships. No chain-of-command per Jesus – “you are ALL brothers.” 
Matthew 23:8*12
    4. 100% REPRODUCING leadership. No perpetual dependency restrictions or rules of men. Luke 6:40
    5. 100% intergenerational gathering. No sending the children to another room. They have Spirit gifts even at young ages to “build up one another” to even adults. Matthew 19:14.
    6. 100% of spiritual gifts are “manifested” in EVERY gathering. ALL the gifts are EQUALLY ESSENTIAL to build the body of Christ. 1 Corinthians 12
    7. 100% of believers show the lost they are “perfectly one” instead of perfectly divided by 1000 brand names and clergy vs laity division. “Perfectly one” shows the lost Jesus is “perfectly one with the Father” – his DEITY. John 17:20-23

    1. Tim – in a way I think you are hitting on a point Jamin was attempting to make. If a hypothetical “pre-former member” goes to church leadership questioning, for example, any of the items you have listed (giving, the weekly lecture/”sermon,” leadership hierarchies, etc.) how will church leadership respond? Will they honestly search the scripture on that topic? Will they engage with the question at all? My impression was that Jamin’s frustration is with leadership’s refusal to engage with challenging questions. The content of the questions are somewhat irrelevant. This church structure, that you have shown is not obedient to God, does not lend itself to honestly engaging with challenging questions. The pre-former member feels betrayed because they were told the church has the truth and has the answers to life’s tough questions, but when they ask tough questions they get unsatisfactory answers.

  7. It is very fashionable right now to be a deconstructionist/exvangelical. And the truth is that all of these people got hurt in a church, or a family, or both, and now they are nursing the wounds with a goal: To get back at “the Church.” Coller makes the same cliche statements about Jesus that other deconstructionists use every day. That Jesus spoke out against “religion.” Jesus established the Church and the Ecclesia so what Coller is actually condemning is Christianity, not religion. “Religion” is always man’s own concept of how to reach or please God. But repentance, and accepting Jesus as one’s Savior is the only way to have a true healed relationship with God. That is the main function of a biblical Church. I’ve gotten hurt in churches that were not functioning correctly and were not doing things the biblical way. I did not decide that Christianity overall was the problem. I realized that those particular churches were flawed. People like Coller can’t properly assess blame for their problems, and their coping skills seem to be lacking.

    1. I can’t say whether being a “deconstructionist/exvangelical” is very fashionable, but it’s a reality that has existed for a long time. Some people now realize they are not alone. They were written off as being disgruntled misfits or outright heretics (or lacking in coping skills!). No doubt some were asked to leave after being told, “this church isn’t a good fit for you.” By the latest count, the USA is home to more than 200 denominations. Worldwide there’s 45,000. Each one claims to have the right ideas about Jesus and God to the exclusion of everyone else. That’s their raison d’être. Each one claims to use the bible as it’s source. As seen in the comments, every person puts their own spin on religion. with some having the power to institutionalize it

      1. “ By the latest count, the USA is home to more than 200 denominations. Worldwide there’s 45,000. Each one claims to have the right ideas about Jesus and God to the exclusion of everyone else. That’s their raison d’être. Each one claims to use the bible as it’s source. As seen in the comments, every person puts their own spin on religion. with some having the power to institutionalize it”

        Very true! Everyone has their own opinions about what the Bible really says. From the outside looking in the Bible isn’t the actual authority it is said to have, rather it’s an illusion in the minds of those inside the circle.

        What’s your opinion why simple letters of correspondence weren’t continued that would contain correction and encouragement when things started going off the rails early on? Did Christ’s “high priestly prayer” in John 17 fail as in keeping his followers “one”, and not 47k different flavors?

        1. There is a history of Christianity. The Bible says in Acts 11:26, “The disciples were called Christians first at Antioch.” Before that, in Acts 9:2, followers simply “belonged to the Way.” The Bible did not establish a mother church in Rome or any denomination. Those were created by men with ungodly desires, intentions and beliefs, with the help of the kingdom of darkness. But the new heaven and new earth (Revelation 21) will not have that nonsense. And, things did not go off the rails. From Adam and Eve to the Day of Judgment—thousands of years of history—God planned the end from the beginning.

      2. In the venacular of deconstructionist/exvangelical the proper term to use in most cases is actually “Apostate.” No matter how flawed any church may be it is never the fault of “the Church” that someone becomes apostate. That is a conscious choice the person makes on their own. People are the same in every single institution we have, including the church. Some are good. Some are not so good. Some are just plain clinkers. That doesn’t mean the whole institution needs to be abolished. It means the people acting in an un-Christ-like manner need to either change their behavior, or be removed from the body, just as Paul instructs us. Anyone who gets hurt in Church can’t leave and then point to the Church and say “It’s their fault” with any kind of integrity. It’s individuals fault, not the institution. People are leaving the Church for several reasons and none of them are simple to delineate. But in most cases it is because they either don’t want to follow the true Gospel, or the true Gospel isn’t being taught. It has always boiled down to those two reasons. If you look at this young mans website you can plainly see that he has some issues to deal with, and those issues were caused by people that he writes about. And they would be issues even if he was not in church.

  8. “This thing….I didn’t want it to go away.”

    Wow. A completely, sadly, and unbelievably confused man. FAITH…its essence is believing in what we cannot see. God…His ways are past finding out.

    You cannot “deconstruct” your way to God. It doesn’t work that way. It begins and ends with faith.

    Hebrews 11:6
    “And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.”

    Throughout the centuries, men and women have vainly attempted to find God through discussion, through thinking, through works, through….You name it.

    It’s about FAITH, and faith is a gift from the Holy Spirit.

  9. He was accused of being a deconstructionist. Maybe I’m lost but I’m not understanding, specifically, what he was deconstructing.

  10. After fifteen minutes Mr Coller hadn’t said anything of substance. Actually, all I understood was that he was “annoying”. I’ll try to muster some resolve and finish the podcast 😳

    1. Louis Zaragoza and Mark Murphy, both of you are spot-on. I, too, was lost during what at times sounded more like a confusing stream-of-consciousness rant than an author interview. My conclusion is that Jamin Coller doesn’t want substantive answers to questions as much as acceptance within a caring community that demonstrates God’s love for all, even those labeled as “annoying.” I’m praying that our Lord will bring a patient and stable man into Jamin’s life who will model true Christlike character in a long-term friendship.

      1. The problem, as I understand it, is that Coller did ask the tough questions. He got the same old canned answers that tap danced around the issue without ever addressing it. Or was dismissed with a wave of the hand for rejecting the contrived, embellished, conjecture-laced apologist dogma. C.S. Lewis said in “Reflections on the Psalms” X Second Meanings, “Because, as we know, almost anything can be read into any book if you are determined enough…Some of the allegories thus imposed on my own books have been so ingenious and interesting that I often wish I had thought of them myself.”

  11. “By this all will know that you are my My disciples, if you have love for one another.”
    There you go, no need for profile ministries, personalities and preaches.
    Rather, Love as Jesus defined Love – being gracious and forgiving, being content and desiring only whats needed as to whats wanted, foot washing & other acts of humble selfless service with no strings attached. And being more than happy to associate and fellowship with Neville & Nancy nobody’s.
    Just imagine the specfic and broad ramifications of such love for the local church, our communities, and the world? 🤔

  12. I did read his book. I do admit it was confusing at times. But, some of what he wrote resonated with me. Any questions about how things are done in church are shut down rather quickly. You become very isolated at your church, because you are a trouble maker. I have tried numerous times in our church with different elders to say we as a church need to be aware of abuse going on in families and how to handle such abuse. I am a female therapist and do have a lot of knowledge in this area. The church I attend has all male elders. They acknowledge it is a problem, but that is it. Even shut down me coming and giving a talk on ways we could address the issue better. For me, right now my thought of “leaving” the church, but not the faith is centered around women. We need not speak up, have no value, and really can’t do much. I have often prayed I wished I had as much freedom in church to serve as the women who followed Jesus. I’m tired of trying to fight the good fight and hitting a concrete wall. It hurts. One of the ways around this is I have started a Bible Study at a local Y and have men and women attend. We have lots of denominations represented, but we can share our lives together and study the Bible together.

  13. Times and Laws were changed by the anti-Messiah spirit (Rome’s false father, and Babylon’s golden head which still controls/dictates the entire group on the statue which Nebuchadnezzar saw in his dream and which Daniel interpreted: Media, Persia, Greece, Rome – Daniel 7:25 warned of this happening). Though Babylon suffered a deadly head wound and was laid low, it never lost its ability to control the entire pagan world with its gold, lies, seduction, false promises and defying of the Living YHWH’s Commandments and Statues, which if a man obeys, he lives by them (every Word which proceeds from YHWH). We encourage this young man to read YHWH’s Word AS IT IS WRITTEN verse by verse, understand It, Him, Yahshua the Word Made Flesh Who dwelt among us, and simply follow Yahshua and not a man made doctrine of any sort. YHWH’s Sevens Stand! Namaan knew, as he was told to dip in a muddy Jordan River 7 times, with his deadly, fatal skin disease! Psalm 12:6 “The Words of YHWH are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.”
    Yahshua’s Seven Eyes of Fire are blazingly jealous, and one more time He is shaking all that can be shaken, so that only that which He has built will stand: A people Upright for Himself Alone.

  14. This video is long on words, short on substance. I wasn’t sure if Coller was intentionally being vague to get people to buy his book to discover what he was talking about, or if he doesn’t know how to speak directly, or if he has brain trauma. He sounded like ex Bill Gothard acolytes who have difficulty thinking clearly after being mind controlled for much of their lives. Gothard wrote “another gospel” that replaced normal living with mind control and domination.
    Deconstructionists who come out of such churches don’t know what traditional churches are like and they don’t want to know. In their Deconstructionist identity they whinge about the “church” not hearing their questions while dismissing answers of mature Christians. They seem to think their vague notions are morally superior to clear teaching. It must feel safe to live in-between questions and answers and never getting there, but it is childish.
    Many Christians periodically examine their faith, the Christian tenets, what they really believe— especially if they change churches or denominations. That’s just healthy. It’s adult. But when does so-called deconstruction end? Looks like never.

  15. Such an important podcast. As a Pastor whose primary engagement is with people deconstructing their faith, I can confirm Jamin’s comments as an accurate reflection of people going through the experience.
    Equally importantly, Jamin raises the questions which would be prudent for anyone in church leadership to ponder and wrestle with:

    1. Is our apologetic endeavor really working as well as it could be (do we have “right” questions and “wrong” questions)?

    2. Is deconstruction a goal, or a calamity?

    3. Do we recognize the decline of the Evangelical church in the west, and if so, have we properly understood the root causes for the decline?

    4. Is there such a thing as choosing Ministry over “Ministry” and why would we have to make that choice?

    5. If someone has deconstructed, what is an “acceptable” form of reconstruction?

    Thank you for fostering this respectful dialog. These issues deserve our attention and concern.

  16. I am glad to see I am not the only one who couldn’t make it through the entire thing. He made generalizations about the church, pastors and preaching. If I was going to boil down what I heard it was this: I can’t reconcile the culture I live in with what I hear at church. He gave some weird example of pastors saying the Old Testament says we should kill homosexuals and that of course we shouldn’t do that now, but they don’t really explain it. Dude, you have access to the internet and some amazing teaching content, it isn’t that hard to research it on your own…unless you already know what the Bible says, but by saying “I have questions that are unanswered” you can excuse yourself.

    1. I agree on the point about doing your own research.
      I understand this might lead one in the wrong direction, but it has helped me immensely.
      I have spent quite a few years now after having questions of my own listening to and reading content that has given me a much better understanding of the issues. I was careful to not go down one path but to listen to different points of view, different commentaries and different perspectives, and to make sure that my sources were well studied and respected.
      So I am not sure what to think when people expect to get all the answers from their own church leaders. I also don’t understand how a church leader isn’t prepared to point someone in the right direction to find answers. Something is just wrong when you are expected to just accept the teaching without also leading towards deeper understanding, which is basically delving into the questions. Something is also wrong when you don’t continue to search for the answers if the person in front of you can’t provide them.

      It’s not as simple as Googling “What does the Bible say about killing homosexuals” but if one is seriously searching for truth, that can be the start of finding lots of good resources.

      1. Catholicism, Mormonism, Judaism and all “Christian” denominations have a common requirement: teachings apart from Scripture. No Christian is required to adhere to a single teaching external from the Bible. (2 Tim. 3:16)

        If an isolated, unlearned man was placed on a deserted island after learning to read and only had the Bible, he would never find five things for a Christian: (1) 10% tithe, (2) a main church in Rome or Utah, (3) a pre-tribulation rapture, (4) women teaching publicly, or (5) a triune god. History proves God works through and uses women in ways greater than Paul would allow, but all five beliefs would not be found by that isolated man reading the Bible free from all other teachings.

        1. What about an isolated woman? 🤔
          And perhaps, just perhaps, if this woman studied the entire OT & NT in context and she happened to also be privy to original Hebrew & Greek texts – like some women are today – she may conclude that the Triune God of orthodox Christianity is highly feasible. 🤔

  17. The irony of this interview and others I’ve listened to over the past few years (because I actually want to understand contra the critique of evangelicals) is that many have seemed to swap one form of Fundamentalism for another which doesn’t question itself but only everyone else. The “problems” with the OT have been discussed and explained for many, many years, and to say “we have problems” is to ignore others in the same way Christian fundamentalists do in favor of a very limited and personal interpretation of the Bible.

    To paraphrase Obi Wan, they were supposed to destroy the Fundies but instead they became one…

  18. My wife and I kept listening to this superficial podcast until the end, hoping it would get better. It didn’t.

    Jamin is a seminary graduate with extensive ministry experience who says the Bible doesn’t make sense to him, but never says what any of his actual questions are that churches didn’t allow him to ask. It’s implied he questions some core tenants of Christianity, as he says people accuse him of not being a Christian. It seems he has bigger problems with biblical understanding and yielding to the Bible’s authority than with churches that don’t let him ask questions.

    Not sure how a conservative church could help him further at this point. If he wants to question basic Christian beliefs, he could go to liberal church where they do the same, but they’re the ones, thankfully, in the most rapid death spiral, while Christ’s True Bride continues to expand and be purified around the world.

    This side of heaven, seeing dimly, every Christian will have all sorts of questions that remain unanswered, but the gospel is simple enough for a child to understand and receive in faith.

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