Chicago radio personality, Mancow Muller, has just announced he’s leaving WLS. And in this episode of The Roys Report, he talks with me about his new mission in life: to stop James MacDonald.
Mancow says he wants to ensure that MacDonald and his son, who’s planting a new church in Chicago, don’t hurt anyone else like they’ve hurt him and his family. And he says he’ll go to great lengths to make sure that doesn’t happen.
Mancow also shares new details about his past, close friendship with MacDonald. And he discusses his plans for the future, which may include a run for governor.
This is an extremely timely and relevant discussion. Click the link below to listen now!
Erich “Mancow” Muller is a radio and television personality, actor, and former child model. He is best known for Mancow’s Morning Madhouse, a Chicago-based syndicated radio show, and The Mancow Radio Experience, which have been nationally distributed by Talk Radio Network. In January 2019, Muller joined WLS to host a morning show. During his time there, he exposed his former friend and celebrity preacher, James MacDonald, for being a “conman.” Several months after MacDonald was fired by Harvest Bible Chapel, MacDonald sued Muller and WLS parent company, Cumulus Media. Muller announced on November 17 that he will be leaving WLS, in part due to MacDonald’s lawsuit against him and Cumulus.
JULIE ROYS, MANCOW MULLER
JULIE ROYS 00:00
Chicago radio personality, Mancow Muller, has just announced that he’s leaving his morning show on WLS. He told local news that he’s leaving because COVID took the joy out of doing radio in Chicago. But as you’ll hear in this podcast, there’s a LOT more to the situation. And it involves James McDonald. Welcome to THE ROYS REPORT, a podcast dedicated to reporting the truth and restoring the church. I’m Julie Roys. And today I’m honored to have Mancow Muller join me to talk about what really has been going on the past few months. As many of you know, Mancow was key to getting James McDonald removed from Harvest Bible Chapel. He repeatedly called James McDonald a con man, and he aired excerpts from the now infamous hot mic recording, where James McDonald joked about putting child porn on a computer. Well, James didn’t like that very much. And last December, he sued Mancow for defamation. And for the past 11 months, Mancow has been pretty silent about that lawsuit. But today, he’s breaking that silence and you’re going to hear all about what’s been happening with the lawsuit and James McDonald. What led to Mancow’s separation with WLS and Mancow’s possible political aspiration. So I’m super excited to delve into that. But before we do, I just want to take a minute to thank our sponsors, Judson University and Marquardt of Barrington. Judson University is a top ranked Christian university providing a caring community and an excellent college experience. Judson has resumed in person classes for traditional, transfer and adult students. And you can choose from more than 60 majors and learn in a Christian community known for its spiritual values, leadership opportunities, and strong financial aid. Judson University is shaping lives that shape the world. For more information just go to Judsonu.edu/visit. Also, if you’re in the market for a car, I highly recommend my friends at Marquardt of Barrington. Marquardt is a Buick GMC dealership where you can expect honesty, integrity and transparency. That’s because the owners, they’re friends of mine, Dan and Curt Marquardt, are men of character, and I’m so proud to partner with them for this podcast. To check them out, just go to buyacar123.com. Well, again, joining me today is Mancow Muller, a longtime Chicago radio and TV personality, and a former friend of James McDonald’s, and a former member of Harvest Bible Chapel. So Mancow welcome. It’s great to have you.
MANCOW MULLER 02:26
It’s wonderful to talk with you.
JULIE ROYS 02:27
And I’m sure it’s been a whirlwind several days. I mean, you just announced that you’re leaving your morning show on WLS. I’m sure a lot of emotion involved with that. And I just appreciate you taking the time. But I’d like to have just some background. I mean, what led to the decision, which you announced just this week, that you’re going to leave your morning show on WLS?
MANCOW MULLER 02:47
Well, look, I started in 1984. I’ve had an incredible run. It was a great honor to get up and speak with people in the morning. Certainly when the Wuhan Red Death, this virus from trying to hit, a lot of the joy was robbed from me. But really what started the process of souring my relationship was McDonald suing me. Now I want to say this, I have a great relationship with my employers, and I will continue to work with them. They called me today. They still want me to do some work. There’s no bad blood. I want to make that clear. But as a guy that champions free speech, and honesty. And by the way, that’s really where it’s at right now. To be honest. I’m not a DJ. I’m a friend in the morning, and I’m their co pilot. You know, sitting talking to them in their car, and I take it seriously. So I’ve had, I don’t know, hundreds or thousands of calls with people that want to talk about what happened with McDonald. And I’m forbidden from talking about it. By the way, completely normal. There isn’t a business owner, or even a media company that wouldn’t say, look, you can’t talk about this guy. And James knows that. And that’s why the lawsuit happened. As this thing kicks into high gear, it’s slowed down because of the Wuhan Red Death. Taking my message to the world now that I can finally speak.
JULIE ROYS 04:05
And you think that was really James, that was his intent from the beginning, is to silence you, or do you think he’s after money or both?
MANCOW MULLER 04:12
Look, I think the man is completely motivated by money. I spent a lot of time with him. I forget what person it was. I think he’s been quoted elsewhere, of saying, I made a lot of money but James MacDonald, lived like the Sultan of Brunei. I’ve been around billionaires, and you can’t name a celebrity that I haven’t interviewed or been around. They didn’t spend money like James McDonald. I’ve made some money. I don’t have a $200,000 security system. I don’t have a plate flipper on my car so I can evade the cops by truck like McDonald wanted to try to get from my friend Harry at Studio Hot Rods. I didn’t give away Harley Davidsons and cars as gifts. If I believe some of what I read and some of what I’ve seen. He is absolutely the most piggish money-oriented person, and I hung out with all the Board of Trade people. I mean, I’ve never seen anything like it. And of course, to me, in my opinion, that’s not his money. That’s God’s money. And truthfully, before James McDonald and post James McDonald, I don’t give money in church for some guy to fly private or live like the Sultan of Brunei,
JULIE ROYS 05:21
When he filed this lawsuit against you, I mean, he said last December, he had already been fired, in many ways, humiliated. So much had come out in the media. I know his own church disqualified him. There was an audit of Harvest Bible Chapel. They said there’s a massive governance failure, which led to James McDonald misusing millions of dollars from the church. And, you know, I’m kind of thinking this guy might just ride quietly into the sunset and go away. Silly me! Next thing, you know, he slaps you with this lawsuit. I mean, you’ve never really been able to talk about this at all, like you said, who you are WLS and in there, you know, rightfully so because they are included in this lawsuit too. He sued Cumulus, who’s the parent of WLS. So they don’t want you talking about it. They just want to get this lawsuit over with. So you haven’t been able to talk about it at all. When you got that lawsuit, I mean, what’s going through your head? How are you feeling when, here your former friend, who obviously you called out and call the con man and did expose him, but suing you now?
MANCOW MULLER 06:24
Well, anyone who reads this lawsuit knows that it’s frivolous. Now, this will help me in the future going back against McDonald, and I intend to fight back. I don’t want to give names, but there’s another guy that he wanted to do some awful things. To me, behind the scenes, was like a little mafioso wannabe. So he had other people and I have certainly names. They’re going to be subpoenaed and people are going to come to court. There’s endless people that are disgruntled. There’s endless people that he hurt. It is endless! Julie, I deal with it every day. This guy is so – you feel dirty! I got a shower! Every day, the amount of information that I had on this guy. I mean, it’s overwhelming. But he does he doesn’t sue anybody but me. Why? Wouldn’t you sue the guy that, if it’s not true, that he said he wanted to hire me to kill his son-in-law? You know the elders wouldn’t you sue them? No, he sued me. Why? Because he HAD to silence me. He doesn’t want the truth out. Because the James McDonald of the pulpit is not James McDonald. That’s an act that’s the facade. It’s the Wizard of Oz. And that whole act is about one thing in my opinion, and that’s, you know, getting as many widow mites as he can in his pocket. You prying open the purse. He’s the best fake crier there. The first time I met him I think I took him to Chef Pings, and he sat and cried the whole time. I didn’t even know why he’s crying. I didn’t know really who he was. I knew he was a preacher.
JULIE ROYS 07:54
He cried the whole time?
MANCOW MULLER 07:55
You know, he faked cries and he’s a manipulator. It’s again, you know, all this is my opinion. But I think there’s proof that backs it up. A lot of proof. He’s a con job.
JULIE ROYS 08:06
So you think he was crying when he first met you because he was just trying to gain your sympathy? I mean, was he crying because he said his job was so tough? I mean, why is he crying when he first meets you?
MANCOW MULLER 08:15
I know exactly why he was crying. He thought I knew all about the Elephant’s Debt. He thought I knew all that I’d probably check them out online. I didn’t know what he’s talking about. Don’t believe what you’ve read. I haven’t read anything. The one time I had gone to his church, I walked out and was pretty loud about it. I don’t want to sit in a church and watch a video screen. And that was the other thing that I found in McDonald’s. He would never tell you where he was going to be live. Look, the guy didn’t want to work. He wanted to show you a video. And he didn’t want to say where he was going to be live. And he had all kinds of reasons for that. To me, the reason is he was lazy. He’d recorded Saturday, and not have to get up on Sunday. And he was, you know, he was wanting to retire. And so he was doing the least work possible. And he sure as heck didn’t want to waste time talking to the parishioners, counseling people, and helping people.
JULIE ROYS 09:06
Being a pastor.
MANCOW MULLER 09:07
That was for the little guy. He didn’t want to actually be a preacher. Which, by the way, is why I don’t want to be a preacher. Oh, I like to standing up there and talking about God. I love talking about God. It’s my favorite subject. But I will be honest here and it’s awful. I don’t want to go to funerals of people I don’t know. I don’t like being around people I know. I don’t want to go to weddings of kids and people. He didn’t want to do any of that either. He wanted the celebrity of it. I never saw a guy that wanted to serve, I’ll tell you that, other than himself. He wanted to serve himself.
JULIE ROYS 09:40
So you blame McDonald for your relationship with WLS going sour? I mean, you think if it weren’t for McDonald, that you’d be continuing your morning show?
MANCOW MULLER 09:50
I have to soul search on that. But I will say this. McDonald. Absolutely. But I know you’re in a lawsuit. It was your lawsuit that got me to to do this. Your lawsuit. Who is this horrible person, Julie Roys? You were the devil to McDonald and Elephant’s Debt. And in fact, I was online. trolling people with fake with fake names supporting them. Does a troll ever change? I did. Wait, Julie Roys is anti-abortion? She’s pro, this pro that, bro. This is a godly woman that McDonald wanted to destroy. I saw the famous video of the excommunicated elders being treated like they were, you know, Taliban hostages. And I started to get sick.
JULIE ROYS 10:44
It was crazy.
MANCOW MULLER 10:45
And I believe it was attorney Jeffrey Loving, the father’s rights attorney. I think I was talking to him during commercial break. It’s been it’s been, you know, years now. But I think he said you’re gonna want to find a new preacher. There’s a lot to that. That’s what, what got me going. But look, Julie, you were in a lawsuit. Anyone that’s read a lawsuit, you immediately have to stop talking.
JULIE ROYS 11:06
Oh, yeah. The thing that’s stunning to me. Is that after he sued me, I mean, that ended so disastrously for him. Because to me, him suing me was Christmas come early. I mean, when he sued me, and I mean, of course, at first, you’re terrified. You’re like, Oh, my goodness. I’ve never been sued before. But I had a great lawyer. He was actually somebody that goes to my church. And you know, from the beginning, he’s like, I’ve got your back, he read that, that lawsuit, and he was like, this is a joke, Julie. And I’m like, I haven’t I hadn’t published anything. You know, I’m like you. You had been out there talking about him. Calling him a con man. You aired those clips. And we’re going to talk about that hot mic that you aired the clips of.
MANCOW MULLER 11:45
JULIE ROYS 11:46
But I hadn’t published anything! I mean, I knew it was so frivolous. But as a result of him suing me, I got subpoena power. And for journalist, that’s amazing. I usually have to convince people to give me information. Now I could get my lawyer to subpoena people. And I and when I started doing that, and he realized what I was doing, then he dropped it really, really fast. So I was absolutely stunned, honestly, Mancow, when he came after you because I’m like, What does he not learn? And he has so many skeletons in his closet, right?
MANCOW MULLER 12:18
Yes. Oh, God, all the horrible things that he, you know, now that we’ve talked and I’ve gotten to know us, you know, they’re not true. And I didn’t want to say them, but you know, the horrible stuff He was saying behind the scenes. And he didn’t want to be exposed. And that was it. And then he immediately went on this campaign to try to collect massive amounts of money for the under churched people of Naples, Florida. And I’ll never forget sitting there saying out loud, Naples Florida is rich. They got tons of money. Wait, I got to give, you know, to the poor people of Rodeo Drive. I’ve got to donate my money.
JULIE ROYS 12:53
MANCOW MULLER 12:54
And you know what they did to that church down there, which to me is criminal. Maybe it’s not literally criminal. But to me, it just feels criminal. He saw what was coming, and he needed a parachute. A golden parachute with lots of money. And all of a sudden they had a big fundraising push.
JULIE ROYS 13:09
Yeah. And I should just mention, for people who don’t know. There might be some people listening who don’t know what happened down in Naples. But John Seacrest was the founding pastor of Harvest Bible Chapel, Naples. He had poured his life into starting that church. And then when he objected to James McDonald, when he was on sabbatical, after some of these, you know, bad things that McDonald’s had done, were starting to come to light. They put him on sabbatical, but they said he couldn’t preach in Chicago, but he could preach in Naples. And John Seacrest said NO, you know, until he’s cleared of wrongdoing, I don’t want him preaching at my church. And of course, James booted him. And he lost the church that he had, you know, poured his life into. And actually I’ve become good friends with John and Jessica now, his wife. They’re flourishing and God has blessed them despite all that. They planted a new church in Naples. But yeah, that was just nuts. What he did and just awful,
MANCOW MULLER 14:02
Give them my best and I think it’s the movie Goodfellas. I don’t know. One of those mobster movies, and McDonald loves mobster movies, and he dressed up like a mobster this past Halloween.
JULIE ROYS 14:12
Right? Couldn’t believe that.
MANCOW MULLER 14:14
Probably the most honest moment he’s had in the last decade. But dressing like a mobster. But what does the mob do? You know they get these small businesses. Load them up on debt, torture them and collect insurance. MacDonald, I thought, was very mob like in that he would, hey, we’re Harvest. Let us help you. And so here are these paid off churches that would get donated or get involved in the McDonald network. And he would load them up on debt. McDonald told me that he was donated an expensive TV station. He told me he was donated a camp worth millions of dollars from I think he said the Hobby Lobby people. That’s what he told me.
JULIE ROYS 14:54
Hobby Lobby was Elgin. The camp was the Van Camp and family.
MANCOW MULLER 14:58
Oh, that’s right. I don’t if it’s the Van Cmap bean company or whatever. But you know, and look, turned a big chunk of it into his private dear preserve with high fences. Where he invited me to come shoot deer. Again what any of this has to do with Jesus and saving souls, I don’t know. I read they are nearly $40 million in debt. He got a piece of land. He got millions of dollars. Wasn’t it all about saving souls? Wasn’t it for the kingdom of Christ? And you really see, no, it wasn’t about any of that. This is eternity we’re talking about. I’m sorry, I get I get worked up. And Julie, I don’t know if you believe me or not. I am fascinated when near death experiences. People that go to heaven all tell the same story. It’s glorious. I hope to go to heaven. I fail in many ways. But of course, it’s not about any of that. I am saved and I hope to get to heaven. I hope James McDonald gets saved one day. I really do. I hope he actually someday believes all this stuff He’s been preaching. People that go to hell don’t want to talk. But when they do talk, it’s I mean, there’s some images that I can’t shake. And I have been able, having done the show for so many years. I mean, I can tell someone’s putting me on; not telling the truth. And hell is real horrible isn’t the right word. It’s beyond that. And so if I can help save one person, or any of us can help save one person, from an eternity of that. This is eternity we’re talking about. I’m sorry, I get I get worked up. But that’s why people have to know about McDonald. Because I’ve met too many people. I’ve had too many people come crying to my front door that they gave up on church. Look at look at my friend Kosta, who they play videos of, who was a pillar of the church who was that, you know, this guy they saved. I think I got him to set foot into a church once. It’s been over a year. He’s totally rejected the church because of McDonald. This guy has destroyed so many people. So we’re gonna let him keep continuing? My mission in life is to make sure that he doesn’t destroy anyone else that is honestly seeking Jesus Christ. That’s it. That’s my goal right now in life. And I’ve got the wherewithal to do it.
JULIE ROYS 17:09
Well, let’s, let’s talk about that, then. I mean, the wherewithal. One thing you’ve talked about doing is countersuing him.
MANCOW MULLER 17:15
JULIE ROYS 17:15
And you even said, Hey, if I countersue him; if I prevail in this whole thing, I’m going to give my money back to a ministry and see it be used for good.
MANCOW MULLER 17:25
Wait a minute. I’m not being shifty here. I’m gonna, I’m gonna pay my legal fees.
JULIE ROYS 17:29
No, you got to do that first. I’m sure they’re gonna be
MANCOW MULLER 17:32
No, I’m gonna pay my legal fees. You know, look, this is my kids college money. This is you know, my retirement. But any extra money I get, after I pay my lawyer. Should I give it to Harvest? They mismanaged it. I’d like to open that house up and put missionaries in instead of that pompous, blowhard. So no, I look, I want to do good things for the kingdom I always have. And McDonald knows this. That was my prayer. You know, I want to be like those people in the Bible. And I know this is overused by everybody. But let me say this. David, I mean, what a mess. And he was a man after God’s own heart. I want to be like one of those people, but today. I think that’s what happened here. I do think God used me. It all happened in such a very supernatural way. So McDonald called and said, ‘Look’, to my lawyer, Michael Young. I’m done. It’s over. I want to get on with my life. Mancow I were former friends. I’m not going to sue him or anything. And I’m going to testify to this court. Will you tell him to stop and just forgive me and or however he said it and just, let’s end it. But then it’s over. And I prayed on it and thought about it. He gave me endless amounts of gifts, and expensive gifts.
JULIE ROYS 18:52
This is after you left or before you left Harvest?
MANCOW MULLER 18:55
No, this is while we were friends
JULIE ROYS 18:56
While you were friends. Okay. Okay.
MANCOW MULLER 18:58
So I went through my house and his books, and his tapes, and his CDs. You know, a Camp Harvest sweats that I had and you know, all kinds of stuff. And many, many cassette recordings of him. And I got rid of them. It’s over. I hope he gets saved. I hope he repents, but I’m done. I didn’t want McDonald in my life. And I didn’t want to, I didn’t want it to continue in my life. And then he sued me. And I think that’s yet another evil of his.
JULIE ROYS 19:31
He comes to you and Michael Young, your lawyer.
MANCOW MULLER 19:35
Comes to my lawyer. Yes. Not me.
JULIE ROYS 19:37
And he says, just wants it over. Just wants it over. And will you you know, kind of a ceasefire or truce and you’re like, yeah, and you get rid of a lot of the stuff he gave you. And then he slaps a lawsuit on you?
MANCOW MULLER 19:49
And I vowed I would never talk about him again. This wasn’t under the threat of a lawsuit. I think he said to my lawyer, no lawsuits, I just want to end it . And so I honored that, because he was a friend at one time. And I had in fact, there was a moment where someone called and said, Hey what’s going on with James McDonald? And I went, well, let me tell you about, um, you know what I’ve moved on. I’m not going to talk about it. And then, liars lie, he sued me.
JULIE ROYS 20:21
MANCOW MULLER 20:22
Now, if someone can tell me a more Christian way to handle this, I’ll do it. I don’t have the option of turning the other cheek. I have worked very hard to be able to, to do what I’m doing now. Look, I didn’t ask for this. I didn’t want this. I don’t want to fight this man. But I don’t have much of a choice. He wants everything that I have. He wants to destroy my life. He successfully silenced to me. This should give anyone that believes in free speech. And I do, it’s carved in my flesh. My life is about free speech. This should chill you to the bone. He was fired. He was done. It was over before I ever talked about it. He has no damages. I reported the news. And I happen to be part of the church of Harvest. This is a frivolous lawsuit, and he should be punished. But I asked my Christian brothers or sisters, am I to not fight back? Am I not to protect my household? Should I just give everything I own to the man? I don’t really have a choice other than to fight and it’s not a fight I even wanted. I just wanted Jesus. You’ve never heard me say anything other than that. Anyone that knew me at the church, this guy kept calling me and bringing I didn’t want any of this. I didn’t want the McDonald drama. I don’t care about Luke. I didn’t I you know, he didn’t impress me. Leave me alone! I want to know about Jesus! When I went to get baptized in the Jordan, I just wanted, I wanted to get home, I think Kos, my friend who was there with me as well. We just wanted to get away from these people. The drama. The intrigue. The it was like a caste system at the church. And I didn’t care about any of that. My God, I hang out with real celebrities. I don’t need to hang out with James McDonald. This want to be egomaniac. This megalomaniac. I’m sorry, I get worked up. I didn’t want that, I wanted Jesus. I went there to get Jesus. And here I sit years later, you know, and I wish I would have never walked in there. And I don’t want to discourage people from going to church. Someone else said, well, Mancow, you’re discouraging. No, I’m encouraging you to go to a church that is not about the cult or personality of some guy. I want people to find a church that actually preaches you know, the Bible. His whole thing was masculinity. But it was the masculinity of x-rated jokes. It was the masculinity of degrading women. You know what he said about that one woman, because she was a virgin, she probably had cobwebs?
JULIE ROYS 22:56
It was very toxic.
MANCOW MULLER 22:57
You know, it was always rude. Crude. That’s not what being a man is. Being a man isn’t suing people to silence them. You know, he would send me an I’ve got the proof. He would send me pictures of his waist in the toilet and he likes filthy jokes; racist jokes. That’s not that’s a man. I got news for my Christian brothers and the women that are listening. That’s not what a man is. This fake macho, Harley Davidson – I don’t know what he’s compensating for. But he ain’t a man. My father that paid his tithes and kept his nose clean and helped people didn’t try to destroy people. That’s a man. Sorry.
JULIE ROYS 23:38
No, I mean, you’re talking about what James McDonald is really like when you take away the facade. And the stuff that you’re telling me isn’t really hard for me to believe given all that I’ve learned about James McDonald over the past couple of years.
MANCOW MULLER 23:52
JULIE ROYS 23:53
But he said just last week, he posted some videos online where he’s asserting his innocence from any of this wrongdoing that he’s been accused of. And the thing that was most interesting to me was when he said that the hot mic recording. Again, for those who don’t know, you had aired this hot mic recording excerpts of, you didn’t air the whole thing, the whole thing was like 50 some minutes. But the whole thing has been posted online. So if you want to see what he said, it’s all posted online. But he’s saying that this hot mic recording, that you aired excerpts from and then he was fired, like the same day or the next day. I think it was actually later that night that the elders met late into the morning and then decided to fire him after you had aired these excerpts. He’s saying that you edited them to say something he didn’t say, What do you say to that?
MANCOW MULLER 24:47
That’s exactly what he said, and worse. And you’re not going to find anyone that’s going to say otherwise. I didn’t alter anything. Look, I was on commercial radio. There are commercial breaks, there’s weather and traffic together. That’s what’s so appealing about podcasting. It’s so appealing about what we’re doing. I’ve never been able to do that. I edited it for time. But he said what he said. James McDonald is a liar who can’t stop lying. The good news for me in court is he forgets. And by the way, there’s lots of case history for this. He cannot win. And he knows it. He isn’t some private little minister going door to door that I’m beating up on. This is the guy that bragged that he was bigger than me, that was on our many stations. In his head he was a superstar. After we did TV in Israel, I think on TBN, he told me that I should make up a better conversion story, because it didn’t play. Maybe something where I was having sexual issues, or drug or drink problems, and I found Jesus. That’s a story for TV. And he was quite unhappy with me. Because my conversion story is, well, it you know, it wasn’t exciting to McDonald.
JULIE ROYS 26:05
MANCOW MULLER 26:06
How I found Christ how I got saved.
JULIE ROYS 26:09
You know, recently, James McDonald said he’s restarting his ministry here in Chicago.
MANCOW MULLER 26:13
JULIE ROYS 26:14
We just heard that Luke McDonald, his son, who went off to LA pretty soon after he resigned from Harvest in the wake of James getting fired, but now he’s coming back. They just had a meeting last Sunday where he met with people in, I think it’s the AMC, the streets of Woodfield here in Schaumburg.
MANCOW MULLER 26:34
JULIE ROYS 26:34
So I mean, it’s a little stunning to me. I mean, James, his buddy, Mark Driscoll back from many, many years ago. I don’t know if you know who Mark is and in about that relationship. Before you ever started going to Harvest. But Mark was a bully, just like James and he got removed from his church. At least Mark went halfway across the country and planted a church. He was in Seattle. He went all the way to Arizona. But the brazenness of Luke now to come back to Chicago and plant a church and we hear James is coming back. Well, he is back. I mean, he’s here, and to restart their ministry here when they burned so many people here, and people know what he’s done. I mean, shocking to me, but I’m hearing from you, you’re gonna do all you can to not let that happen. Am I right?
MANCOW MULLER 27:21
Julie, like I said, if we can keep one person out of hell. Yeah. I look, their doctrine is twisted. What did Pablo Escobar’s son do? He carried on the family line of work. The sad thing about this lawsuit with the father is, in my opinion, the apple doesn’t fall very far from the tree. And I think my lawsuit, what we have, will also be devastating to other members of the family. The files that we have, the things that we know from Harvest, will be devastating. Look, James McDonald is is who picked a fight with me. But in exposing him, there’s some other things will come out. Yeah, I don’t think Luke McDonald should be preaching. To me, it’s just the family line of work. I think he will be the face for the father. I think that’s the front man. And all opinion. I don’t know. But MacDonald has said he wants to find answers out, of course, you and I know that’s a lie. He’s fought that for for years. Yeah, I’m gonna I’m gonna make sure I want to hand out to everybody that walks in a copy of the Harvest arbitration, which he says he wants public. And I’d like to hand out the financials. And I’d like people to see what pigs these people are. What the family made. And I got nothing against a family. I wish him I wish I really wish him all the good things. But as a guy that gave to the church, I gave my own money, to find out what the daughter made to work for a few hours in the T shirt shop and what how much money they all made. I think, from what I’ve heard is shocking. Of course, He’s never made it public. He says he wants it public. But he’s never done that. So what I would like to do to everybody that walks in any McDonald church, is I’d like them to have the finances from Harvest. And I’d like them to see the MacDonald arbitration and hear what these great men of God had to say and what they had to live with, with this guy behind the scenes. Again, the devil can quote the Bible. Luke MacDonald is lukewarm. What does the Bible say about lukewarm? You spit it out. And Luke is not his father. The father has charisma. He’s a good speaker. I fell for it. And then I learned more. So to me, I would guess that this is all about the return of James McDonald. And the you know, James McDonald used to joke that it’s all tax free.
JULIE ROYS 29:51
He would joke about that?
MANCOW MULLER 29:52
Yes, he would say that I should get into preaching because it was tax free.
JULIE ROYS 29:55
Oh, my word!
MANCOW MULLER 29:56
He also told me that when Driscoll was down. And again this has been several years but it was something along the lines that he got the church to help Mark Driscoll. And Driscoll, of course, his downfall was acting exactly like James MacDonald. Birds of a feather. And I believe and again, I, I want to make this very clear, this it’s been a couple of years and I don’t think about this kind of stuff. But I believe McDonald said the church gave him a $10,000 per diem or something. And we helped him, we saved money was down. And because of that, he’s made a lot of money for Mark Driscoll – a lot of money – and that they know how to make money. And that’s why they’re welcome on TBN and elsewhere because they know how to make money. They’re moneymakers.
JULIE ROYS 30:47
They gave Mark Driscoll $50,000.
MANCOW MULLER 30:50
Maybe he’s being modest. No, I know. He gave him money. But it was it was so that when Driscoll got back on his feet, because he was a moneymaker, James would, would reap the rewards. That’s what McDonald told me personally.
JULIE ROYS 31:04
They scratch each other’s back. You help me out. Yep, exactly.
MANCOW MULLER 31:09
Yeah. And and so look, yeah, McDonald used to say to me, the minute you have 1000 people or more, it’s real money. These other guys that have less than 1000 people in their church. And it’s, I don’t know, he said, 99.99% of them. And he said, you know, they’re not they’re losers. They’re not making any money. He told me the Elephant’s Debt – the people that, you know, were former elders that were talking about McDonald’s. There was some break in the church. It was before I got there. And he told me exactly to the penny, how much money was lost. He knew to the penny. Now see, I would think if I was a preacher, that wouldn’t be my concern. But he knew how much money the Elephant Debt was costing him every year, and he extrapolated it out and everything else. And then he would tell me what a Julie Roy’s article would cost him. It wasn’t about anything else. It wasn’t about telling the truth, or, or what can I do better. It was about keeping the real devil hidden. The real demonic spirit at Harvest, hidden. But he knew it. I mean, he knew it down to the penny. And I thought, well, that’s kind of sick. Two thousand people left, they would have brought friends. This amount of people would have been the church members. And over five years, it cost me $750,000 and 23 cents or something. I don’t remember the number. I’m making that number up, but it was to the penny. So that was his concern with with anyone talking about him. And see he had no problem not talking to your burden, you’re hurting you or kicking you out. Those stories are endless. But what he didn’t seem to remember is I had a radio show. A popular radio.
JULIE ROYS 32:58
No. I see. Oh, man, I could still remember when you did Old MacDonald had a cult and you played those clips. That morning, I was my jaw just hit my chest. I was like, Oh, my word. Unbelievable.
MANCOW MULLER 33:17
Where do I go? It goes on and on with him. Him asking me if you know if I knew mafia people. And I said I interviewed mafia people. You know, he wanted boot parties, which involved getting people beaten up, his enemies beaten up. And then of course, there was someone that he wanted gone. And wanted to know if I had any mafia people that could, I mean (laughs). And I thought, is he testing me? And then the third time, he’s like, No, no, no, I really need you to help me find someone to do bad things. And I got him on the phone with a cop. And he starts going off and the guy goes, you know, I’m a cop. I’m a cop. But he wanted people beat up and strong armed and threatened. And there’s those stories. And then of course, there was the guy at church. I don’t want to bring him into something else. But this guy Manny. Manny was a former Marine. Did he ever want you to? Well, anyway.
JULIE ROYS 34:13
Manny told me the whole thing. It’s unbelievable. Murder for hire from a megachurch pastor.
MANCOW MULLER 34:18
Yeah, no, it’s very, it’s very, it’s,
JULIE ROYS 34:21
I’ve got the story up on my website.
MANCOW MULLER 34:23
And recently, he’s been going to all of my witnesses. Everybody that I’m going to have in court. And he’s crying, and he’s biting his lip, and he feels horrible. And, and of course, nobody. Well, most people don’t believe it. They’ve been down that path before. Look, once he gets what he wants from you, you never hear from him again.
JULIE ROYS 34:42
MANCOW MULLER 34:42
So he’s, he’s desperately trying to silence people that would prove everything I’ve said in court, but he’s going to fail miserably, as well. Truth. I still believe in truth. I believe truth wins. And if truth wins, then I’m going to win in court.
JULIE ROYS 34:59
Well, I wish you well, and I know truth is on your side. So I feel pretty confident for you. Before we go, though I, I would like to hear what’s next for you. Sounds like you may have some political aspirations and some opportunities there, but you’re kind of mulling them over.
MANCOW MULLER 35:15
Willie Wilson is a great godly guy. I go to church with him. He’s got the Midas touch. He’s very wealthy. This is a kid that was basically a slave, a sharecroppers child that worked for free. And got stuck in a McDonald’s without money. And they asked him to, you know, can you mop some floors. And then the employees went on strike. And he ended up being anyway, he worked his way up to owning a bunch of McDonald’s and making a ton of money. He wants to bankroll me to run for governor. And then, when that happens, the Republican Party, some heavy hitters, the real money behind the Republican Party asked me to consider running as well. And look, my wife, you know, Illinois governors end up in jail. My wife, my wife, I don’t think she wants to live in the governor’s mansion. And she, she’s against it. But I’m considering it right now. And I’ve also got other offers. And of course, every one and their mother has a podcast. And so I may go do some more of that, which has been very successful. So that’s it. I’m either going to be governor or go back to radio. Oh, and there’s some TV, there’s some TV interest. Newsmax is coming on strong. And Clear media is doing some things, Fox is in trouble. So Fox news channel, so there’s, there’s no end of work for me. But right now, my only job in life is saving people from McDonald. I’m not kidding you. That’s my mission now.
JULIE ROYS 36:46
Well, and I wish you well with it. And I hope that you prevail again, in your in your lawsuit.
MANCOW MULLER 36:51
Thank you. There’s no question, we’re going to win this. It is a loser of a suit. He knew it when he filed it. And he knows that it’s all true. Truth Wins. And this was all about silencing me. Well, my mask may be on because of the Wuhan Red Death, but McDonald needs to know the muzzle is off.
JULIE ROYS 37:11
Well, and in Illinois, we have this thing called a Rule 137 Sanction, that you can come back with with a lawsuit and I’m hearing from you that that’s your plan. And these frivolous lawsuits have to stop. And so I appreciate what you’re doing. And I know a lot of people say you shouldn’t sue a believer and I’m like, wow, you know, a tree by its fruit. The fruit has been so rancid for so long that
MANCOW MULLER 37:34
JULIE ROYS 37:35
What do you do?
MANCOW MULLER 37:35
Julie, there was a there was a kid named Iggy that beat up the lesser weaker children and took their money and finally I had enough and punched Iggy in the face, as a little boy, and his nose exploded and he cried and he was a frightened kid. And usually these kids are abused. I don’t know what McDonald’s background is. But McDonald is a very frightened, nasty insecure man. In real life, he’s a bully. And you find with bullies that when you fight back, they cave. When you guys fought back, he caved. This this thing would be over except for the Wuhan Red Death has stopped the courts. This thing has as drug on. I can’t imagine any judge that doesn’t see this and end it. This is an attempt to quiet his critics. And I’m one of them, of course. But this is what he’s always done. He has a long history of this. What was the king that was against David?
JULIE ROYS 38:38
MANCOW MULLER 38:39
Yeah, that’s who this is.
JULIE ROYS 38:41
Yeah, I’ve heard a lot of comparisons of Saul.
MANCOW MULLER 38:43
Yeah, he’s my Saul. There’s a spirit of Saul with McDonald. And it’s a demonic dark demonic spirit. He’s trying to get my lawyer thrown out. And he came back with I want to I don’t know we did dinner, we got coffee all the time. We went to a Bears game together. I don’t remember exactly what it was. But all lies. He just he can’t stop lying.
JULIE ROYS 39:09
(laughing) It’s funny you say that because I remember reading the lawsuit he filed against me and him saying that my husband was a business partner with Ryan Mahoney, one of the Elephants Debt guys, and I went to my husband I’m like, do you know Ryan Mahoney? He’s like Ryan who? He had no relation to reality. Zero.
MANCOW MULLER 39:30
And he also said you and another person, and this is why I I wanted to help him against you, before I knew you were, is that you were this horrible crazy lady going door to door and frightening children.
JULIE ROYS 39:44
That’s right! My life is really much more boring than that. But I don’t think I frighten any children lately.
MANCOW MULLER 39:52
And that is that is that your child? Come here! Come here! And you’re yelling at people and I’ve never seen any hint of that. You were coming to destroy the church and I, you know, I was a member of the church and I was enlisted to help. And he wanted everybody to go online and, and counter everything and, and use fake names. He is all over the internet. And I think he told me he has five to ten fake names
JULIE ROYS 40:19
I know his fake names. I see them all the time. it’s the same people.
MANCOW MULLER 40:23
No, he’s he said nasty stuff about me. And it’s, it’s James McDonald, using a fake name. And so he encouraged me to do it. And I did it. I did it. I went online. And James was a great man of God, this is these people are. And then I started, you know, again, the first time in history that I did anybody’s actually been won over on the internet. It doesn’t ever happen. Nobody ever changes their mind. But I started seeing some things and went, Wow!, these people don’t seem that bad to me.
JULIE ROYS 40:52
I’m glad you’re not trolling me anymore. Thank you. I appreciate that.
MANCOW MULLER 40:55
JULIE ROYS 40:56
And I appreciate you taking the time today. Again, I know it’s been a crazy week, and I just pray that God goes with you.
MANCOW MULLER 41:01
The Lord is faithful. He’s put my feet on rock. He will guard and protect me as He always has. I don’t expect that to change. It’s weird. We do. At least I do think I hope this doesn’t change. I hope God remembers me. But He’s always been faithful. And I continue to believe that for the future. And I think that God is going to be with me when I walk into court. I really think I was brought in, I’m part of it, that God had enough of what McDonald had done to the kingdom. And everybody please keep me in your prayers. I you know, I do need. I do need prayers, and I appreciate it.
JULIE ROYS 41:38
Absolutely be praying for you.
MANCOW MULLER 41:40
Thank you, Julie.
JULIE ROYS 41:41
Well, thank you, Mancow, and thanks so much for listening to The Roys Report, a podcast dedicated to reporting the truth and restoring the church. I’m Julie Roys. If you want to find me online, just go to Julieroys.com. Also, please make sure to subscribe to The Roys Report on Apple podcasts or Google podcasts. That way you’ll never miss an episode. And while you’re at it, I’d really appreciate it if you’d help us spread the word about the podcast by leaving a review and then please share the podcast on social media so more people can hear about this great content. And again, please do be praying for Mancow and for his family. Incredibly trying time in a time of transition for them. Just remember them, please, in your prayers. Again, thanks for joining me today. Hope you have a great day and God bless.