Michael Brown’s Video: Truth or Image Repair & Lies?

SPEAKERS: Julie Roys, Ron Cantor, Michael Brown, Landon Schott

Note: This is a rough transcript and may contain some misspellings.

Landon Schott: We are walking into a place where there’s been a demonic spirit that’s been loosed in our nation, and this demonic spirit is called the accuser of the brethren.

Julie: That’s how mercy culture Pastor Landon shot described the allegations of sexual abuse against Messianic apologist, Michael Brown, which the Roy’s report first reported, but a third party investigator came to an opposite conclusion.

Jim Holler, a Firefly found Brown, had engaged in sexually abusive misconduct with a young woman in the early two thousands and had an inappropriate relationship with a second married woman. Hollerer also concluded that Brown had engaged in a calculated effort to evade accountability, yet an elder accountability team rejected these findings and cleared Brown for ministry.

Brown then announced his return in a video online.

Michael Brown: This has been the most difficult season that we have ever lived through. I’m sure it’s been a challenging time for many of you as well.

Julie: And Mercy Culture Church, welcome Brown back. Not with caution, but confetti. This isn’t surprising given what Sha said just a couple months earlier,

Landon Schott: and that’s why I said, enough is enough of this gossip in slander because the accuser of the brethren is going after men of God that have given their lives to build the kingdom.

Someone say, not on my watch, Dr. Brown, we honor you, we celebrate you, and this presence driven church and community of pastors is behind you.

Julie: What should we make about the developments concerning Dr. Michael Brown? And what about his video? Is it truthful or just an attempt at image repair? Joining me to discern Truth from error is Ron Cantor, a former close friend of Dr.

Michael Brown’s, who has tons of behind the scenes information about what really went down. Welcome to the Royce Report, a podcast dedicated to reporting the truth and restoring the church. I’m Julie Royce.

Joining me now is Ron Cantor, a Messianic believer and also the President of Shalan new tv. And that is the only 24 7 Hebrew speaking TV station announcing the good news of Yeshua or Jesus Christ. And I got to know Ron back when the Mike Bickle scandal broke with the International House of Prayer, and I didn’t know anything about him at that point.

In fact. The only thing I knew of him is he was posting all these great posts on social media, and I was like, man, this guy seems to really get what’s going on here. And he spoke the truth. He was a straight shooter. And so I reached out to him and we talked and we ended up even doing a podcast out of that.

But now one of our good friends, both of our, like you were a very good friend. Ron was a very good friend of Michael Brown. He was a little bit more than an acquaintance to me. I have a little bit of history with him and considered him a friend. And this is just a hard thing to talk about.

But again, Ron Cantor welcome and it’s just such a pleasure to have you join me.

Ron: It is good to be with you, and I appreciate you having me.

Julie: And I remember, I actually went back and looked through my private messages on x. And I wanted to see when you first reached out to me, and it was October 15th, so October 15th, you reached out to me.

We hadn’t published anything at this point, in fact, we wouldn’t publish for another month and a half. It takes a while to do these investigations, but you had heard through the grapevine that we were going to do something on Michael Brown, and you’re like, is this true? He’s a friend of mine.

I wanna know. And I really, I, my hands were tied. I couldn’t really tell you much at that point. But I know you were just, heartbroken, right? I was

Ron: devastated. Yeah. I was devastated that was probably the day that I received an email from a former student at the Brownsville Revival School of Ministry who had heard that you guys were investigating.

I think he was part of it. He was testifying and he wanted to know if I knew or if I was willing to speak with Rebecca. And I was like, what are you talking about? No, this. Cannot be true. And and so I, I reached out to you to say it, tell me this isn’t real, and you wouldn’t tell me anything, which was enough for me to know that it was, and I think I said to you, I said, Julie if the roles were reversed, I would want Mike to tell me.

And so I waited a few days and really prayed about it. And then I reached out to him and I just said, Mike, I don’t want to send this email to you, but I, as your friend, I have to. And that opened a dialogue. He initially denied everything he said. There were wildly false allegations that there was no truth to them.

And the more I pressed, he opened up a bit more than I brought two others with me, Matthew 18, and then he confessed probably to about 65 or 70% of the allegations. So that was the beginning of what has been a horribly stressful six, seven months that I keep hoping ends soon.

Julie: Yeah.

And it was right on the heels of what happened with IHOP too, and you were very involved in that and with the third party investigation there, and so just really a horrible season for you. But it was horrible for me. I, I couldn’t believe you think you can’t be shocked anymore. And in my business with all of the investigations we’ve done, you would think that I’d be beyond that.

But I wasn’t. And Michael, he came back when my husband was still teaching in the public schools and he had this Truth seekers club and they had this debate and we were like, wow there’s gonna be a rabbi that’ll debate on. Was Jesus the Jewish Messiah, and who should we get on the other side?

It was like, oh, duh. Michael Brown, he’d be fantastic. He came in, did a phenomenal job. He’s, he came to our ministry. I was actually leading worship that night. He jumped in on the drums and we, this is I just loved Michael. To me he was just one of the most brilliant apologists.

But also just such a down to earth guy and very warm. And so again for all of us this has been hard, but I think too, for those whom, maybe have gone to know Michael through this investigation or through this scandal, who don’t know what this man has meant to the Messianic Jewish community, but also to the charismatic community because he was.

Kind of the gold standard, like they would bring in Michael when other people were in trouble. In fact, with Mike Bickle, they brought him in

Ron: and not just scandals. Al also, if you go back to the Brownsville revival in the nineties, one of the reasons that he moved down there is that they, there was a revival of move of God, but these guys were not scholars and they needed somebody who was both a scholar.

And a charismatic, revivalist. And it was during that time I can’t remember that was it don’t be deceived or something that, that may, it’s close to the name of the book. Mike was often confronting Hank Hraf, who was criticizing. And so he was not only someone that would come into these situations with Mike Bickel, but also would speak into, the attacks against the charismatic world.

Julie: Yeah. And I, I don’t mean to, to paint with a broad brush here, but charismatics, I would say have, whether rightly or wrongly the reputation of being overly emotional and not very. Rational, maybe not as highly scholarly. And so someone like Michael, as bright as he is with the degrees he has, in ancient languages and everything was just really a find, I think, and to have somebody to show, hey, yeah, you can be charismatic and really be very scholarly. And that was Michael. And again, this has been tragic to a lot of folks and I don’t think anybody is rejoicing in any of this, it’s just been horribly painful.

As all the scandals are. Some have closer to home, but recently he released a video and this was after. And we’re gonna go through that whole timeline of what’s happened. But I wanted to play it just. The way it is. I just wanna play it for folks because I want you to listen to this and just say, boy, if I didn’t know anything else about Michael Brown, I would think, wow, this guy has been exonerated.

Take a listen and see what you think.

Michael Brown: Thanks so much for taking the time to, to watch this video. This is the first time I’m coming your way to share my heart. Since December 17th of last year, 2024. So it’s been a long time. I wanna start by thanking all of you for your love, your prayer, your support for Nancy and me.

It has meant the world to us. This has been the most difficult season that we have ever lived through. I’m sure it’s been a challenging time for many of you as well. So thank you for your support, your love, your prayer. It has meant so much to us. This time away from ministry has been very painful and difficult, but I have encountered God through it.

I’ve encountered him in ways I never have before. There, there’s a lot to share with you, but now is not the time. There’ll be a time to share all this with you but not right now. I know that as I’m speaking to you, so some, you are thrilled to see me back online and others you’d rather never see my face again.

So I wanna make it clear. I’m not here to debate. I’m not here to argue. I’m not here to prove a point. I’m here to, I’m not here to chase down this rumor or refute this allegation. I’m not gonna be putting up screenshots and video clips and getting to some kind of internet war. I don’t believe that’s God honoring.

It’s not what I’m gonna do. My, my desire is to lower the temperatures, not raise them. And what I wanna do is just tell you the process we’ve gone through over these months. When accusations came to our ministry last fall, my board said to me. Mike it’s the better part of wisdom. It’s the right thing to do a third party investigation.

And I said, let’s do it immediately. I’ve shared the truth with you. I want everything to come to light. I’ll take a lie detector test, I’ll give you a cell phone, the laptop, every, everything. And the board said, okay I need to recuse myself so they could have the freedom to make all the necessary decisions in this situation, that’s exactly what they’ve done.

And then they said it’s this proper protocol during the investigation that you step away from public ministry. And that’s why I’ve been away all these months. So immediately the board hired a a law firm, a leading law firm in the state of Arizona. And the gentleman who was gonna conduct the investigation was the former Assistant Attorney General of the state.

And one of my board members said, Mike, they are gonna get the labels on your underwear. I said, please. Let’s bring everything to light. Those bringing the accusations were not happy with that organization, with that firm. They said, no, we won’t work with them. And they insisted on our board finding a firm that would be more friendly to their perspective.

So it took some time. Our board finally got an organization that was acceptable to them, and this was the first part of a twofold process. First the investigation, then the results of that investigation were turned over to an independent team of elders. This was the process I was asked to submit to, and I said, yes, let’s do it.

The investigation was turned over to an independent team of elders. They looked at the results of the investigation. They evaluated me. And then they rendered their verdict. And on April 28th, they released me to resume ministry effective immediately. And that’s why I’m here now, speaking to you today.

I mentioned at the outset of the video that the last time I spoke with you here on YouTube was December 17th of last year, and that was when I posted my public apology video. I and I said it with all sincerity of heart. I said it with most, with much brokenness. I hope you heard that in my words, but I wanna reiterate again that I meant every word from my heart.

It grieves me that I was a source of pain, confusion to any of you. And once again, I say I, I’m so sorry for any pain or confusion that I brought you. I am very much aware of the fact that in the body now, there’s kinda like a mini civil war over me. Some of you are really for me, some of you are really against me.

I wanna make an appeal to you. Please don’t divide over me. Unite around Jesus instead, please don’t lose friendships, relationships, ministry, partnerships over me. We know that Jesus said every kingdom, every house, every family divided it against itself will fall. So I appeal to you, unite around Jesus.

Don’t divide over me. I believe that’s pleasing to the Lord. So once more, Nancy and I thank you from the bottom of our hearts for your love and prayer, encouragement, support during this difficult and painful season. It has been your love and prayer has been a lifeline to us. I can’t state that strongly enough.

Thank you once more and to everyone, I really look forward to ministering to you in the days ahead. Thanks again for watching.

Julie: Okay. So that’s what Michael said. And for those who might have been listening to that and not following this story that closely, they may be saying, ah, sounds like he didn’t do anything.

Or, there’s some allegations he dealt with it in the appropriate way and wow, he almost even went the extra mile. You get the sense like just bent over backwards. I just wanna go over a timeline of what happened. If you’re not aware, again, just review this for you. Again, October 15th was back when you first contacted us, but we had begun investigating even before that.

Rebecca Hopkins, one of our reporters was working on the story. It wasn’t until December 2nd that we published allegations one by a woman, Sarah Monk, who at the time was anonymous, but then she later came out with her full identity about how Dr. Brown, in the early two thousands had a pattern with her after establishing this father-daughter relationship, then had a pattern of holding her hand, kissing her on the lips, slapping her butt.

We also heard reports of, a guy who walked in and found him, her sitting on his lap, and, just this sort of behavior. And then meeting

Ron: alone at night and in, in a car, in a parking lot. Which was against the rules of the school, and each student would’ve been kicked out for such behavior.

Julie: Yeah. And I even reading some of the accounts of other folks saying that the, they had such a strict dress code, but Sarah got around that, not that she wore anything inappropriate per se, but it was against the dress code, but she was given a pass on that. Then we also heard allegations about a married woman who had been in a relationship.

What came out really is phone sex with with Dr. Brown and Dr. Brown. Called the first relationship with Sarah Monk Nonsexual, the second relationship, he called it an emotional relationship. Then line of fire commissions, a third party to investigate all of this April 12th Firefly the investigator comes out with a report and what it found that the two main things that it found, one is that Dr.

Brown had engaged in quote, sexually abusive misconduct with the one young woman and then quote an inappropriate relationship, unquote, with the second. The married woman, but also, and I think a lot of people glossed over this brown, engaged in a quote, calculated effort to evade accountability.

And I know we’ll get into that a little bit. Then two weeks later there’s an elder accountability team, which I find the name that it’s called Accountability Team. Ironic because essentially what they do is they look at this report, one of the men, and it’s supposed to be an independent accountability team.

One of the men on that board is line of fire board member Jonathan Burrs Burn. So I don’t know how that’s independent when you have one of your own board members on this accountability team. But anyway, this accountability team rejects all the findings. So line of fire pays for commissions a report, and then rejects all of its findings and clears Dr.

Brown to resume ministry. And then on May 7th. Dr. Brown released the video that we just heard

Ron: in your timeline. Let me just fill in a little bit. When I originally went to Dr. Brown and went through Matthew 18, and he rejected the the thing that he ended up doing in the end, because of his board.

But I had encouraged him to take a brief break from ministry, allow for an investigation, because what he was calling foolish behavior, I was saying, no, it’s actually worse than that. And it’s a scandal and you’re gonna need other leaders to come in and help you. And I offered to, to walk with him through that, but he was not interested in that.

And that led me to reach out to Sarah and I had never met Sarah. I reached out to a third party because I didn’t know if she would talk to me. And I spent an hour and a half on the phone with her. And since then, that was seven months ago. She’s become a friend. We, she’s somebody that I, I am concerned about.

So that’s why I’m passionate about this issue. It has nothing to do with Dr. Brown. It’s more what Sarah has gone through. She was 19 years old when they met and on fire for Jesus, and two years later she drove outta Pensacola Broken because of his, what Firefly calls sexually abusive misconduct.

But what they also did in the report is they took Mike Brown’s narrative of each little thing, and they said he was consistent when people confronted him. I was one of 10 different. Groups of people that confronted him during the past 23 years and consistent is not the word that one would use in the way he answered them.

He evaded, he lied, he gaslit, he shamed. But consistent is not the right word

Julie: in that way. He was consistent though. He was co consistently gaslighting, denying, blaming, shifting, blame, dvo. Yeah, that’s the consistency, but not consistently, not with integrity, dealing with these issues. And that’s, that to me has been.

Almost the more shocking part because although I hate to what happened to Sarah, and I love that you brought it back to the victim because what clergy sexual abuse does to victims is it absolutely devastates them on such a profound level. It’s so much different when somebody that you had in high regard as a spiritual leader betrays that trust.

It is such a deep wound and betrayal. And it devastates many people their spiritual life. And someday these men are gonna have to give account for what they did to the spiritual lives of these women. And in some cases, men, not in this case, but in some cases. But the thing that, that’s just I just feel like.

The coverup has been almost, as bad or worse and often I often find for the victims too, that’s what’s the most damaging. Because yeah, often with a coverup they’re expecting other people to come to their aid, and that doesn’t happen. And that’s why I think we’re on I’ve appreciated you so much because you have come to the aid of so many of these people and you didn’t have to,

Ron: They often say that the coverup is worse than the crime.

And you’re rightly pointing out not for the victims, but in terms of the case of Dr. Brown, it really was. Because if he had repented publicly to his elders 23 years ago, this would’ve been part of his testimony. It would’ve been hard, it would’ve been painful, it would’ve been difficult. But he would’ve dealt with it.

By evading responsibility for 23 years. Even to this day, even in that video, he’s not admitting what he did. He is hoping, again, I don’t wanna, I can’t judge his heart. I don’t know what his intent, but it certainly appeared to me that video was intended to say, it’s all done. I’ve been exonerated, I was honorable.

And look, God has blessed me

Julie: well and so we’re gonna go through this video because I think it’s instructive. And I think a lot of folks I’ve said this before it’s the same playbook over and over again. And we keep highlighting these and pointing out the playbook because it educates the public so that when this happens, you can see it and you can, so it’s not even just.

With Michael Brown, but I do think this can be instructive and applied to other ones. But in this particular case, I think because he is returning to ministry, and I think there’s so much confusion and my goodness the whole what happened at Mercy Culture Church. This is a church in Fort Worth, Texas, where they celebrated his return and Landon shot, oh my goodness.

The account that he has given is very much like Dr. Brown did on a shorter version, leaving out the key facts, making it sound like this man has been exonerated and it’s all good. And it’s just those really nasty people out there.

Ron: I have never seen such a spectacle confetti. At somebody who has been credibly accused and not really credibly, not just credibly accused, but an investigator found him guilty for sexually abuse and misconduct, you’re throwing confetti. And of course, that’s out after the outrageous standing ovation several months ago. In fact, what I don’t think Dr. Brown was understanding and Landon shot on, is that not only are they causing great pain with the standing ovation and the confetti, but they look foolish to the body of believers.

It’s almost like they believe the body of believers. Are stupid that we cannot discern and that we need them to tell us what to believe. Ezekiel 34, God is angry with shepherds who abuse the sheep. And I look at that when you throw confetti at a man who is involved in sexual sin at the end of an investigation where he was declared guilty.

You are, you need to be afraid. That is a very serious thing. And then I was just reading in Micah three and he, it’s the same thing where God is angry at the leaders of Israel for, he talks about them like, like cooking, slicing up and eating, the, and the sheep, the people.

And that is what we see here. When you are involved in sexually abusive misconduct, you are not thinking about the pain that you are inflicting on that soul. And then when you. Revictimize the victim by celebrating the offender. I, my head just wants to explode.

Julie: It is unbelievable. And the whole time I’m looking at those pictures that Landon posted online and I’m thinking, how must Sarah feel?

How does she feel? She wasn’t happy. She was, I can imagine Jock I would be livid. Livid over that. And I’m glad others were livid too. Because that is the appropriate response.

Ron: People with narcissistic per personality disorder, they lack empathy. They’re, everything is about them is we’re gonna see in that video, don’t go to War Over Me.

Everything’s a about them. Dr. Brown is enjoying being celebrated, but he’s not thinking. And if he wants to say, Hey, I don’t ha, I’m not a narciss, it’s great. Then Love Sarah. Care for Sarah. Have you offered to do anything for her? His board has offered to pay for coun or counseling, but I would like to see Dr.

Brown offer to pay for her counseling. And I don’t think he’s gonna do that because then he would be admitting that he abused her. And but they’re not thinking of the pain that goes through her soul or through Ray and his family’s soul when he is being, like any, I gotta be careful. It would be normal to say, Landon, bro, I get it that you wanna celebrate me, but this is not good optics.

It makes them look like fools in the eyes of believers so they can continue to do it, but it just brings their value down in the eyes of people that they wanna minister to. So when Dr. Brown says, I’m looking forward to ministering to you again, maybe start by being honest about what happened, instead of sending a gaslighting video out.

That basically says, look, I’ve been

Julie: exonerated. And I dare people at Landon’s Church to actually watch this, but I bet you they won’t because he continually calls me the Jezebel report and he continually, is so busy trying to disparage others so that we don’t have credibility and he can continue lying to his people, which is exactly what he’s doing.

But let’s go through this video Yeah. That, that Michael Dr. Brown put out. And we’re just gonna take. Clips, short clips. He and I think they’ll be very instructive. But here’s the first one

Michael Brown: I wanna start by thanking all of you for your love, your prayer, your support for Nancy and me.

It has meant the world to us. This has been the most difficult season that we have ever lived through. I’m sure it’s been a challenging time for many of you as well. So thank you for your support, your love, your prayer. It has meant so much to us. This time away from ministry has been very painful and

Julie: difficult

Michael Brown: season.

Julie: What do you make of that,

Michael Brown: Ron?

Ron: Yeah, I’m sure it has been difficult, but you’re the perpetrator. You are the offender. You put your hands on a 20-year-old woman who adored you. Do you think it’s been difficult for her? I can tell you as somebody who’s been in contact with her almost every day for the past seven months we have a WhatsApp group that is has about eight witnesses and Sarah.

And we’re constantly encouraging each other every day. And she’s surrounded by people who love her. But yeah, it’s been very difficult. How about mentioning the victims? Remember again, if you watch the video, there are no victims. What about the family of Kim? While I do understand that being investigated is difficult being a victim is more difficult.

She’s been dealing with this for 23 years. You’ve been dealing with it in the public for six months.

Julie: Yeah, a hundred percent and it’s just engendering a lot of sympathy in his direction. But as you say, no mention of the victims, which is unconscionable, quite frankly at this point. Alright, I’m gonna play another one.

Michael Brown: This time away from ministry is, has been very painful and difficult, but. I have encountered God through it. I’ve encountered him in ways I never have before.

Ron: Yeah. So this is a tactic and I’ve seen ministers do it where you will say, God is here, his presence is here. Don’t you feel it? Don’t you feel God’s gonna move tonight?

Now he’s saying, I’ve encountered God during these past seven months when I know for a fact that he’s been working the phones and the emails and the texts pleading his case, standing ovations. Maybe in between that he has been experiencing something, but why is he telling everyone that?

It’s, look, I humbled myself. I moved aside and God has been visiting me. It’s in ways that I never experienced him before. And, I’m just reminded of when I first brought this to his attention it was a similar thing where he sent a voice text saying that this is right after he shared with his board about what was happening.

That he had the most amazing time of prayer that he’s ever had in his life, intercession like he’s never had before in his life. And and he told me, God told me I have your back, that there’s not gonna be an article. No weapon formed against Mutual Pro. God has given him these promises and none of those turned out to be true.

So it, it’s just. It seems a little bit like

Julie: spin to me. And I would say in image repair, tactic language, I think they would call that bolstering because what he is doing is almost setting himself up as the man who hears from God, the man who has these really amazing encounters with God. And that’s why we should listen to him, is because he’s special.

He’s special.

Ron: Yeah. And it becomes a proof text. Like, why would God be visiting me so powerfully if I was guilty? Clearly I’m not guilty because he’s visiting me.

Julie: Alright, moving on along. We’ll see another tactic in play here.

Michael Brown: There, there’s a lot to share with you, but now is not the time.

There’ll be a time to share all this with you but not right now.

Ron: Yeah. If not now, when, there was a private meeting he had with Fire International students in December where he gathered them together to speak to them. The, these are not, I think it said students, missionaries. Fire International is a mission sending agency that came out of the fire school and he gathered them on a Zoom meeting. And would not take questions for them. Said his board would not let him take questions. And he said, I think this is a direct quote. I can’t say all the things I want to say because of the investigation.

And my question would be, why not? This isn’t a criminal, there the law is not involved. You can say whatever you want and actually you know exactly what you did or didn’t do, so why not take questions? Why not? But he set the boundaries. I’m gonna make a statement and you cannot ask questions and then I’m gonna leave.

And of course we know that in his wife’s statement that she made, it was the same thing. There’s so much more I could say. But it’s over. It’s over. If ever there was a time to actually, I. Say what you’re gonna say now would be the time, but I would guess that we’re never gonna get to that point.

Where he’s going to answer the hard questions about what did you actually, he’s said what he didn’t do. He’s and that becomes a tactic too. I vehemently deny that I kissed her on the lips. There’s a whole lot of other things you’re being accused of, and so that becomes a tactic to say, if I stand on this hill, I did not do this then.

It’s his word against her. No, there’s all, he admitted to touching her on the butt. He admitted to smacking her on the butt. He admitted to putting his arm around there when they were alone and in, in, in Walmart sitting in a car with her at late at night. He’s admitted to a, he’s admitted to the investigator that he had a.

A sensual emotional, to me it was a sinful soul tie, is what he said. And that he was, which was expressed in email, text messages, and phone, which Ray the husband called phone sex. So there’s a lot more than just what he’s saying he didn’t do. So we’re waiting for the time that will come.

When you can say, the more that you’re, that, that is needed to be said.

Julie: Yeah. Again, this is indicating, there is this body of evidence that would exonerate him. And when you say this is a tactic, it, I’d say Yeah, it’s right in the playbook. For example, when I reported on John MacArthur that he had excommunicated a woman who had simply come to the church and asked for help from her child abusing husband and she had gotten a protective order, which you can’t get without some level of evidence, and the church pressured her to drop that protective order.

When she wouldn’t do it, they excommunicated her. I reported all of this. Phil Johnson came up with, we have exonerating or exculpatory evidence. We just can’t share it with you. But if we could, I’m still waiting. This is what, three years after the fact. We’re all still waiting.

Phil, give us please this exonerating information that you have. He has not, because why it doesn’t exist. It really doesn’t exist. Or if whatever they think it is, they know it will be laughable to do I would say, yeah. Michael, if you’re listening to this and you really have some sort of evidence one, why didn’t you give it to the investigators?

But if you have it let’s see it now. Let’s see it now. We’ll see. Okay. This speaks to evidence as well

Michael Brown: as I’m speaking to you. So some you are thrilled to see me back online and others you’d rather never see my face again. So I wanna make it clear. I’m not here to debate. I’m not here to argue.

I’m not here to prove a point. I’m here to, I’m not here to chase down this rumor or refute this allegation. I’m not gonna be putting up screenshots and video clips and getting to some kind of intranet war.

Julie: So it, there are some screenshots, emails and video clips that now you have published and we published a story on it as well.

Ron: Yeah, I think that this was said specifically because he knew, we had publicly declared that and not just me, it was me and Bob Gladstone who was as close to Mike as anyone for the past, several decades. As well as dozens of students with the encouragement of probably hundreds of students.

Former, I should, I keep calling them students, but these were our former students back during Brownsville Revival School of Ministry Fire School, which I was not a part of. I without getting into history, there was a split. I did not go with the split, but this was a report. What we did is we, realized that the Firefly report was not going to publish much of our testimonies. So for the past month, we started collecting all these testimonies and put them together in one document, which anyone can [email protected], brown witness report.com. It’s 137 pages. But it is testimony, and there were some testimonies I hate to say this, but there was a testimony from a young man in 2017 18 who was worked for Dr.

Brown and was asked to get a phone number off of his phone. Dr. Brown unlocked it, gave him the phone. He was on radio at the time, and he accidentally opened up Safari and it opened up to adult pornography that was supposed to be in the report. That guy received an email from Firefly to go over his report like we all did, where we would verify the facts and the names and all this stuff.

And then it. Somehow disappeared. It wasn’t in there. So that’s when we decided that we had to put this together. That came a little bit later and so we were ready. And I would encourage people if you want, again, it’s witness testimony

Julie: that’s all it is. And I think there is a tone that comes across that subtly communicates if you are getting into, internet war that you’re somehow lesser, I’m above the fray.

I am a bigger person, but you’re not really being the bigger person when you’re refusing to answer specific allegations and you’re just being really vague. So I think we hear more of that in this as well.

Michael Brown: I don’t believe that’s God honoring, it’s not what I’m gonna do. My, my desire is to. Lower the temperatures not raise them.

Julie: Okay. That line right there, that lower the temperature, there are times when the temperature should be raised and this may be

Ron: one of them. I think so. And this is the very de definition of gas lighting, which is when you when somebody is concerned about a real thing and you convince them that the real thing is actually the opposite.

So in this situation where there should be outrage that a 19, 20, 20 1-year-old girl went through sexually abusive misconduct at his hands, and a married woman was lured into a phone sexual relationship, there should be outrage. And you don’t have the per perpetrator say. Let’s just lower, I wanna be part of the answer to lower the temperature.

We’re not quite ready for that because you’re making videos where you’re acting like you’ve been exonerated. Yeah, I agree with you, Julie. It is very dismissive of anybody who is outraged over something that they should be outraged about

Julie: and extraordinarily self-serving, because the person that benefits from the, this whole thing going away is Dr.

Michael Brown. All right, here’s the next one.

Michael Brown: And what I want to do is just tell you the process we’ve gone through over these months. When accusations came to our ministry last fall, my board said to me, Mike it’s the better part of wisdom. It’s the right thing to do a third party investigation.

And I said, let’s do it immediately. I’ve shared the truth with you.

Ron: Okay. Yeah, that’s not true. That’s, that is a, I hate to use the word lie, but that’s not true. And the reason I know it’s not true is because I was around when all these discussions were happening. When he disclosed to his board, it was October 25th when he found out that you guys were investigating him, that was September 13th, according to a text message that he sent.

So he didn’t even tell his board for five weeks. I would have to assume that he was hoping that it would just all go away, but it was becoming pretty clear that more people were finding out about it and it wasn’t going away. So he tells his board on October 25th, it is not true. That at that moment they said we need a third party independent investigation.

And how do I know that? Because about a week later, I have a text message from one of his board members who said, if the allegations become public, if there is a story by the Roy’s report, we will absolutely launch a third party independent investigation. So when did they actually decide? I can tell you when the date was.

It was just a few days after that. Because I spoke to Sarah, as I mentioned early when I was not getting the proper response, biblical response, when Mike was not taking responsibility for what we did I thought I should. I should find this girl and talk to her. And after I talked to Sarah, I wrote it all down and I pres seven, eight pages, and I presented her story to his board and they were shocked.

Now, why were they shocked? Because it was a different story than he told them. It was a similar but far more severe story, and they were blown away. And so they confronted him that Sunday, they actually invited me to drive down. I was in Richmond at the time. They invited me to drive down to Charlotte and be part of that, and I was emotionally sp spent, and I just couldn’t do it.

But that’s after that confrontation. That’s when they said we have to do a third party investigation. The idea that he came in and immediately disclosed and, Hey guys, I want you to know I’m being investigated. And they said, the better part of wisdom is do, hey, yeah, let’s do it. Take my, we’ll get into the other part about the computer and everything else later, but

Julie: that didn’t happen.

It’s so unfortunate when you see just, again, complete revisionist history, not telling the truth about what happened. But that’s why I’m glad that we have this platform to be able to do this. And what is, again, for you to say that when you spoke to the board and they were shocked when they heard about Sarah Monk, and now they’re not so shocked, they’re saying, they admit that it was clergy sexual abuse and he’s okay to be ministering.

What happened in between there? What is going on? At the

Ron: very least, they should have said you need significant therapy because of the, just by the way you’ve handled this, publishing your autobiography in the middle of being investigated for sex abuse, getting a standing ov those are symbols of narcissism and a lack of empathy.

So at the very least, as at as. As compassionate friends, I would’ve hoped they would’ve said, because we care for you, because we love you, and because we do want you to be in ministry in the future. We think you need at least three months of intensive therapy to minister to your soul. Just from what we’ve witnessed over these past three, four months.

Julie: Oh. What’s stunning to me too, and I said this to my husband, I’m like, Dr. Michael Brown is 70 years old, and I’m not saying that you can’t minister into your nineties if you want to, I do know when I’m 70 years old I really hope that I’ll be spending more time with my family and doing some of those things, that only you can do, but I just, I don’t understand this clinging.

To position this clinging to ministry? In,

Ron: in his letter to my leadership back in November the and again, that whole letter I, I all, I took all the emails and this letter was over the top meant to hurt me and it was a plea to my leadership to, to do any of you have authority Overrun cancer.

That was the title of the email. And it was a plea for them to control me because of the great destiny on a 70-year-old man’s life that, that my calling to bring revival and cultural reformation. He literally said, quote, souls are at stake and that’s why they have to stop me. Now, to be clear, at that time I was not doing interviews with you.

I wasn’t, I did not talk to anybody about the situation except for those who needed to know, which were his board two of my leaders just to get advice. And the only aggressive statement I made was to two of his associates who tried to intimidate Sarah. They sent her several text messages and I first responded graciously, and when they did not apologize, I responded aggressively.

That was the thing that triggered him to con but if you read that letter, the self importance is shocking. Have you released that

Julie: letter? Yeah, it’s in the report. You can read It is, oh, I haven’t read the entire report yet. We just, it’s only 137 pages. It’s a quick only 130. Yeah. No I’ve read portions of it and it’s breathtaking.

Ron: He

Julie: starts

Ron: the letter by referring to Sarah as a demonstrably false witness. He says that she’s constantly changing her story, but he doesn’t tell them that the witness who’s. Changing her story is actually the victim. It, the assumption is that she’s just some angry, bitter person out there who is out to get him.

And he goes on in that letter to say that leaders around the nation are angry at me because the way I’ve handled other issues and that I’m gonna give them a bad name and I’m gonna disqualify them. ’cause we were at that point overseeing the IHOP investigation and he said, if you don’t, if Ron is a part of that, certainly you’ll be disqualified.

Julie: That is spiritual abuse. That’s, it’s leveraging scripture. It’s leveraging all sorts of manipulation. That is, that’s awful. And I remember when that happened because it worked. You’re board for time. Wasn’t that with the sorry. H help me out with Tikkun, the organization. Tikkun. It was, which for a while they did censor you and then they reversed it.

Ron: Initially they didn’t, when they got that letter, they were able to see that it was one of them referred to it as barf BARF. And they could see the manipulation and all that. What happened, what the reason they got upset with me is because after your article came out along with Mike’s public statement, which I knew to be false, he had already confessed to me six weeks earlier.

So when I watched him make a public statement that acted like he was shocked by these allegations in 2020 Chris Bennett came to him and confronted him with, after talking to Sarah and made it clear that she was hurting. That she had suffered because of his actions. And he, he says, if only we had known, but he did. And it goes on the whole entire public statement was mostly false. And I just felt at that point, I couldn’t be quiet. But then the next day or the two days later, they came out with an email. Mike sent out an email to his base referring to the allegations as an insidious and ugly plot of Satan.

And so these were true allegations, and I just couldn’t be silent anymore. And I told, I made a post and said, friends, he’s already confessed to me too much of this and to two other people who were part of the email chain. And so once it was, public, that, that did create some stress in my relationships and, we can talk about that on another day. I’m still doing my best to, I wanna honor those relationships as much as I can.

Julie: Thanks for explaining that, that backstory is helpful to know. So according to Michael in this video, as we move right along, he’s all for transparency. He wants truth to come to light.

Michael Brown: Here we

Julie: go.

Michael Brown: I want everything to come to light. I’ll take a lie detector test. I’ll give you cell phone, the laptop, every, everything.

Ron: Yeah, that’s a little strange considering he says earlier in the video there’s, there’ll be a time to, to share more, but that he’s referring to a conversation he had with his board.

Six months ago. Did he give him his laptop? Did he take a lie detector test? Did he give him his phone? I don’t know. But I can tell you that, I have had pastors send me text messages that are that implicate him, that, that or that where he is saying things that cannot be true based on other things he said he has stated.

It sounds great, but the whole purpose of this email, or rather this video, is to communicate to the public. Look I gave them everything. I was transparent, but I can tell you as somebody who gently, and again, you can see all those emails in the report. I did not come at him hard.

I was terrified. I did not want this information, but I gently tried to get the truth from him, and it was like pulling teeth.

Julie: So sad. Again, often it’s not the crime, it is the coverup. And the problem is when you begin lying, you dig your hole deeper and deeper. So here’s some more of what he said,

Michael Brown: and the board said, okay I need to recuse myself so they could have the freedom to make all the necessary decisions in this situation, that’s exactly what they’ve done.

And then they said it’s this proper protocol during the investigation that you step away from public ministry and that’s why I’ve been away all these months.

Ron: Yeah, I’m not sure that’s correct either. There was no announcement of him leaving public ministry until about a week after your article came out.

He had this conversation with his board in November in early November. And as far I don’t have any, again, I don’t know his schedule if he was preaching or teaching. I had asked him on October 28th I said, Mike, this referring back to the, when I asked him to deal with this, honestly, I said these.

What you think are foolish things are big deals, and you need to have a, an eldership look at this and judge it and possibly bring discipline. I said, but in the meantime, you should not be preaching while there are allegations out there. And he was, he would not hear that. And in fact, he was on his way to a preaching engagement when we were having this conversation.

A as far as I can understand, it was a day after I went public with the fact that he had already confessed to me that he that his board rather announced. So I think that was December 7th or something that he would be taking a break at their urging from public ministry. But his original plan when I was talking to him was just to keep.

Plowing ahead.

Julie: Yeah. And that’s what was troubling is even after he did take the sabbatical, then, there’s a pastor posting pictures with, oh, I was with Michael Brown today, and then there’s the book coming out is autobiography and he’s, his ministry is pumping the book, and they’re sending out e an email to people about the book.

These are not things I, and honestly the autobiography, that one just absolutely blew my mind. Does, is he not able to read the room? Can he not tell? This is this is, horrible optics. It just, the whole entire thing. O obviously

Ron: he assumed that this would be a good thing for his followers and they would be excited about it.

Why else would you do it? But it certainly backfired and the publisher pulled it a few days or a week later. But yeah, you’re right. It was a horribly bad optics.

Julie: Yeah. And it didn’t work. It didn’t work at all. So I’m glad that the public is holding him accountable. Alright, we got just a few more clips to work through.

So here we go.

Michael Brown: So immediately the board hired a a law firm, a leading law firm in the state of Arizona. And the gentleman who is gonna conduct the investigation was the former Assistant Attorney General of the state. And one of my board members said, Mike, they are gonna get the labels on your underwear.

I said, please. Let’s bring everything to light. Those bringing the accusations were not happy with that organization, with that firm. They said, no, we won’t work with them. And they insisted on our board finding a firm that would be more friend to their perspectives.

Ron: Yeah. So the idea that they were forced to get a friendlier investigator is also not true.

And I know that because I was the one pushing back along with Sarah and what I explained to them, and I know his board can confirm this, the word friendlier was never used, trauma informed that was used. What we said is and I can, it, it’s written on the line of fire website where lemme just read from, I’ll read their words. Yeah. Our first well-intentioned misstep, so they’re calling it their misstep, not not pressure from the outside, but their misstep right out of the gate. As soon as we heard about the inval allegations, it was our desire to authorize an independent third party investigation so that truth could emerge, and that our process could begin where Sarah and others felt safe to express themselves without fear of shame or judgment.

We found a reputable attorney who specializes in third party investigations without realizing that the firm he works with often represents and defends individuals or institutions that have allegations against them. That’s the truth is that we push back saying the guy that you chose, that their law firm they’re bragging how they got people off.

They’re indebted to the person paying them. What we said is, we need you to find, in order for Sarah and other witnesses to cooperate, find a trauma informed investigator who understands clergy sexual abuse. And he can either exonerate Mike or he can say, here’s the evidence that he did it. But the idea that we were looking for somebody friendlier is absurd.

And it’s not true. And his board knows it’s not true and it’s written on his website. What I just read for you right there.

Julie: And if they mean friendlier, as in friendlier to the perspective that people that are traumatized need trauma-informed investigators, right? If that’s what they mean, then okay, fine.

But he makes it sound like they’re on our side or on, some of the right, of the survivors. And the truth is they just have enough training that they know how to be sensitive. But here’s the other thing. Law firms have a fiduciary responsibility to their clients, right? And so when you hire a law firm, it often is not an independent investigation.

What they’re do doing is they’re serving their clients. And that’s exactly what you read on the website was that this law firm, it serves their clients, right? It gets them out of these kind of situations. It doesn’t try to get to the truth or help the victims. It tries to get the client out of this pickle,

Ron: right?

Julie: This next one that I’m gonna play is probably the most frustrating one to me. Not because of what he says, but because of what Dr. Brown doesn’t say.

Michael Brown: So it took some time. Our board finally got an organization that was acceptable to them, and this was the first part of a twofold process. First the investigation, then the results of that investigation were turned over to an independent team of elders.

This was the process I was asked to submit to, and I said, yes, let’s do it. The investigation was turned over to an independent team of elders. They looked at the results of the investigation. They evaluated me. Glaring omission

Julie: in this one. Yeah. So glaring

Ron: omission. So what he’s saying is technically the truth, that there was a twofold process.

That there would be an investigation and then this group of elders would look at the results of that and they would make recommendations. What he. Fails to say is that there were two, and you mentioned in the beginning of the broadcast two primary conclusions that the investigator came to and I’ll just read.

One had to do with his sexual sin based on the gathered information, consistent accounts from multiple witnesses. It is evident that Brown engaged in inappropriate relationship with Kim, a married mother, as well as an inappropriate relationship involving. Sexually abusive misconduct with Sarah. Sarah was 19 years old when Brown first took notice of her leading her to believe that God was placing her in a place of favor under Brown.

Within a year, at the age of 20, these interactions escalated to physical touch. So what Jim is describing that Jim is the President of Firefly. What he is describing there is clergy sexual abuse, where at 19 years old, she was allowed into the inner sanctum she was, and in her mind is in the midst of revival and a move of God where 2 million people visited from all over the world.

And she is that close to, to Mike Brown, that she saw this as the favor of God. And then as he eventually made that relationship physical with holding hands and kissing and taps on the butt, or smacks on the butt, meeting to get, kept getting more and more intimate. So somebody could say, I don’t know anything about grooming, and you might not.

But that is grooming, that is the very definition of grooming. And then the second thing that, that Dr. Brown leaves out in in his, he skips to the end where they put him back in ministry is the coverup. Jim wrote this, it is believed that over the past 25 years, brown has deliberately deflected questions about allegations of sexual misconduct involving Kim and Sarah.

This pattern of deflection appears to be a calculated effort to evade accountability, suppressed the allegations, and protect his ministry’s reputation By maintaining silence and avoiding direct answers, brown has seemingly sought to shield himself from scrutiny, potentially enabling these stories to remain hidden and preserving his position within the ministry.

If you’re gonna be honest and you’re gonna make an honest video about coming back into ministry, at least tell people what these two primary conclusions of the investigator were to act. Again, if you’re watching that video and you don’t know anything you would be shocked to in retrospect hear those two quotes.

Julie: Yeah, absolutely. He doesn’t put the findings of the investigation. He skips straight to what is still, to me, the most shocking, despite the findings. You’re good to go, but again, very deceptive and really to me that is lying by omission. What he did right there, leaving a false impression.

That is as much lying as saying an outright untruth, and I think people need to say is a man who is doing the things that we’re pointing out right here is this man, even if it weren’t for all the things in the past, is a man. Who deceives in the manner that Dr. Brown is deceiving, qualified for ministry.

And I say that as this is someone I looked up to. This is someone I respected. This is someone who could run circles around me in his biblical knowledge. Absolutely. He could. I not in the same league with Dr. Brown and I don’t pretend to be in the same league, but I do know what lying is, and that’s what’s going on.

Ron: I would even challenge this elder accountability team to watch that video and respond. ’cause you are the guys who released him back into ministry. And anybody who knows anything about this investigation can see that he is not being forthright with the people that he’s talking to. So again, that’s my challenge to them.

Speak up and maybe say, wait a minute, th this is not what we hoped for.

Julie: And this is an affront to God. We serve a God who is the truth, right? If he is going to be a minister of the gospel, he has to have a higher regard for truth and truth when it comes to ourselves, because that’s, he’s clearly lying to himself.

And if he can’t tell the truth about himself, how can he be speaking the truth to, thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of other people. Yeah. All right. Just a couple more that I wanna want to highlight.

Michael Brown: I mentioned at the outset of the video, that the last time I spoke with you here on YouTube was December 17th of last year, and that was when I posted my public apology video.

And I said it with all sincerity of heart. I said it with most, with much brokenness. I hope you heard that in my words, but. I wanna reiterate again that I meant every word from my heart. It grieves me that I was a source of pain, confusion to any of you. And once again, I say I, I’m so sorry for any pain or confusion that I brought you.

Julie: And he’s so sincere about that apology that when I went to look for it, I noticed it had been made private. So we can’t even view the apology and go back and compare notes. It’s been

Ron: down for quite a while. And what, again, this is just more gaslighting because what he is trying to communicate is that back in December, I apologize for.

Causing you confusion and causing you pain. And that is not what he apologized for. What he apologized for is that he had an emotional tie, as he called it, with this married woman named Kim that we know from her husband. And we know from the Firefly report was a sexual erotic relationship that included that was not physical, but it included emails, text messages and phone calls.

And we also know from Ray, the husband that during these phone calls, Dr. Brown allegedly would try and encouraged Kim to meet him somewhere privately, and he asked her not to be intimate with her own husband. So that’s what he’s apologizing for in December, even though it’s very vague. And let me just say this.

As you listen to this whole thing, there’s several times when Dr. Brown says, we want the truth to come out. We want the whole truth to come out. But when he’s actually. Attempting to tell the truth. It is so vague, you have no idea what he’s talking about. So phone sex becomes an emotional tie. Nobody knows what an emotional tie is.

I’ve never heard that phrase in my life. And so it, it is again, it’s just more gaslighting that, I’m being so honest with you and I’m telling, and I want to take my emails my, my phone, my computer take everything and look at it. But then when it comes time to actually tell, okay, Mike, just tell us what happened.

You can’t get an answer. No. And so what? He’s apologized. So he is saying, I really meant it, I really meant it when I apologized for causing you confusion and pain. And I don’t think anyone out there is going, I just feel. Pain and confusion from what happened. Tw it, it’s not even but again, it’s, it is steering a narrative in my opinion.

Julie: Oh. And what we’re dying to hear from him is to tell the truth about what happened. It wasn’t emotional. It wasn’t non-sexual. Both of these relationships were sexual. He sexualized these relationships. He prayed on these girls. What we want to hear from him is a true apology for what he did to these women.

Yeah. That’s the apology we wanna hear. Michael. We wanna hear you name what you did instead of using other language that deflect from what it really was.

Ron: And the only reason we know about his relationship with Kim is because Sarah was house sitting 23 years ago. And for some reason, six months after the relationship ended.

Inside of his nightstand. She was putting a note there for him ’cause they used to leave notes for each other. She opens up the nightstand and there’s a legal pad w where written on it are sexual fantasies between the two of them. And she’s stunned about that. That’s if that doesn’t happen, if those notes are not in the nightstand, we don’t find out.

But when I asked him about it, he put the blame on Kim. He said, she said something inappropriate and I wrote it down in case I was ever accused of something. He said to somebody else, Michael Vic, he said that she wrote me some. So the, in the consistent stories keep changing. And he said to Michael Vic, who was an elder level leader a couple years ago, he said, yeah, she wrote something that was inappropriate and I wrote it down.

She emailed something inappropriate and I wrote it down so that me and my wife Nancy could go confront her. I think she was deceased at the time. So you’re taking a woman who’s no longer with us and you are blaming her for a relationship that I would say you groomed because you were the one with the power, with the authority that the man of God that Diane Langbert, David Pooler, all of all would say you were the one with the power in the relationship.

Julie: Yeah, a hundred percent. And let’s not forget when he started making these statements public, her husband came forward to defend her honor because he knew what Dr. Michael Brown was saying about his wife, right? About what had happened was an absolute lie.

Ron: He emailed me or texted me and he said, I will only talk to you and another friend of mine in Pensacola.

And that was what he was, he did never, he never wanted to talk about this again. Yeah. Never wanted this to become public. But when he saw that Dr. Brown was besmirching, I don’t think I’ve ever used that word besmirching. His, it’s a $10 one for sure. It is his deceased wife’s name that he felt he had to come forward.

Michael Brown: Alright. Two more. I am very much aware of the fact that in the body now there’s kinda like a mini civil war over me. Some of you are really, for me, some of you are really against me. I want to make an appeal to you. Please don’t divide over me. Unite around Jesus instead, please don’t lose friendships, relationships, ministry, partnerships over me.

We know that Jesus said every kingdom, every house, every family divided against itself will fall. So I appeal to you, unite around Jesus. Don’t divide over me. I believe that’s pleasing to the Lord.

Ron: What’s ironic about that is that he actually sent a letter to my leadership team seeking to divide us, and he actually succeeded in dividing us.

So he’s telling the public with a very sincere sounding voice, don’t divide over me. But he actually proactively sought to divide me from people that I’ve walked with for 38 years, and he succeeded.

Julie: Yeah. And that, let’s not forget too, he is blocked. I don’t know if it’s hundreds it very well may be all of these people.

I him so many people and I couldn’t believe, honestly, I couldn’t believe he blocked me because I was like, that’s just like poor form. Like when a journalist, journalistic outfit is investigating you, then you block them. That’s not giving the persona of openness. And it’s not like I was trolling him.

It was really wild.

Ron: I haven’t written anything on his Facebook page or his Twitter page was deactivated or he wasn’t using it. Since all this happened. And then the other day I just realized that he had blocked me from both Twitter and Facebook. Joel Richardson said, if you literally have to block more than half the body of Christ, then you are the one dividing the body of Christ. And I know from all of these former students, faculty who have all been blocked because they’re asking questions. And if you don’t believe me, just go. To his Facebook or Twitter and ask him something about the Firefly report.

You will be your comment will be deleted if it’s on Facebook. You can’t delete on Twitter, but you will be blocked in wi with within an hour or two. And I don’t know if he’s doing it or he has people working for him, but it’s probably in the, it’s probably over a thousand people at this point.

Julie: I doubt if Dr.

Brown will be watching this, but boy, if you are better than this. You really are. I just really believe that he is, and he needs to come to a senses. This is just, this is sad. This is not the way to end all these years of ministry and this is the legacy that you’ll be leaving unless you own this and really do things right.

I just, I hope and pray for that. Amen. The last

Michael Brown: clip. So once more, Nancy and I thank you from the bottom of our hearts. I. For your love and prayer, encouragement, support during this difficult and painful season. It has been. Your love and prayer has been a lifeline to us. I can’t state that strongly enough.

Thank you once more and to everyone, I really look forward to ministering to you in the days ahead. Thanks again for watching.

Ron: Yeah so once again it’s about him and the pain and the difficulty. And you’ve been praying for me. I would love for him once to say and Sarah, if you’re out there watching and Ray, if you’re out there I’m so sorry that 23 years ago I allowed myself to do the unthinkable, and please forgive me, their names aren’t even mentioned in this entire five minute video.

It is, we’re hurting. It’s been hard for us. It’s been difficult. I haven’t been in ministry and, but now I’m gonna be back in ministry. It is. It’s all about Mike.

Julie: It also has this subtext of, those of you that really love me are the ones supporting me and praying for me and telling me, go.

And you’re, you’re on the pro Michael Brown, side of the Civil War. Listen we’re not in a civil war. This is the body of Christ. And scripture says that the kisses of an enemy are perfuse, but faithful are the wounds of a friend.

Ron: Amen. I, that’s when I wrote him back in October when I reached out to him.

Julie: It’s true. Like I’ve said that to my board. I know somebody said to me once, wouldn’t you have my back with this? And I’m like, no. If by your back, if by your back means what? I love you and do what’s best for you, a hundred percent. That is my commitment to you. But if by your back means what most people mean, which means I’ll cover for you.

No. And I want every single member of my board to know that’s not what, that’s not what’s supporting me is you support the mission and you support, the call of God on all of our lives corporately. That’s the job. And to hold me accountable and the most loving thing you can do for me, the most loving thing a believer can do for another believer who is in sin and in deception is to call it out.

That’s what we’re doing.

Ron: Yeah. And I agree with you there, there is no civil war over this. Anybody who’s looked honestly at the evidence, has landed on the right side of this. I don’t know that Landon Shot is reading the evidence. I forget. He doesn’t

Julie: want to, he doesn’t want to. I’ve interacted with Landon quite a bit in the past six months, and the same thing with allegations against him.

He just. He doesn’t really want to,

Ron: it’s just uncanny. But the people who have looked at the as evidence, the people, the sheep, are smarter than we thought, apparently. And they can read, and again, that’s why we put this report out brown witness report.com, and it’s 137 page report that it is just the stories of witnesses and it’s not just the stories that have to do with sexual abuse, but spiritual abuse.

We were in a very intense environment back in Brownsville and things happened that I had no idea there is a story that should be its own feature by a woman named Sarah Cohen about what she went through in deliverance ministry. And I hope some major maybe you guys should pick up that story and just print it.

It’s just a shocking story. But yes, my. Desire here. You said, you know that people that are praying for Dr. Brown are on the right side of this? Then I’m on the right side of this because most days, over the past seven months, I have been praying for him and his family asking for the Lord to break through, not manipulative prayers like, Lord, show me, but Lord be redemptive, rescue him.

Let him see. ’cause I do care for him. It, it’s becoming harder when I see these videos. ’cause they do make me angry. I’m gonna be honest, but my heart’s desire, my longing is that he would own this and be restored. So that’s why we put out the report for believers everywhere to know exactly what happened, but also.

Still encouraging him to come into the

Julie: light. I so appreciate you Ron. I appreciate you standing for truth. I appreciate you loving your brother by telling him the truth and confronting him, and I really appreciate you being willing to make your thoughts public instead of just whispering in them behind the scenes, which I know is what a lot of leaders do.

They’ll behind the scenes, they’ll say, oh, we know this, that, and the other thing, but they don’t take a stand. And you have very courageously done that and shown a pattern of doing that. So very grateful to you. Thank you again. Thank you so much for having me. Yeah, and I appreciate your ministry.

Thank you.

Thanks so much for listening to the Roy’s report, a podcast dedicated to reporting the truth and restoring the church. I’m Julie Royce, and just a reminder that the Roy’s report is listener supported. That means we can’t do anything that we do without faithful supporters like you. So if you believe in our mission of exposing abuse and corruption, standing up for victims and holding Christian leaders accountable, would you please help us out with a gift this month to give?

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