Dave Ramsey
Christian finance guru, Dave Ramsey, urges Tennesseans to pass a bill that would ban mask mandates. (Source: video screengrab)

Dave Ramsey’s New Crusade: Ending COVID-19 Mask Orders

By Bob Smietana

Christian finance guru Dave Ramsey has endorsed proposed legislation in the Tennessee Legislature that would ban mask mandates as discriminatory.

Ramsey, who has railed against COVID-19 restrictions and said that masks are for “wusses,” released a video Wednesday announcing his support for the “Medical Non-Discrimination Business & Consumer Act.” The bill would amend the state’s non-discrimination laws to ban businesses from denying services based on “the wearing or use of a medical device and whether a person has received medical treatment.”  

In his video, Ramsey described the burdens business owners have faced during COVID-19, including loss of revenue and the expense of trying to keep employees and customers safe. That has been made harder by what he called “out of control” actions of government officials.

“On top of managing these risks and carrying this weight, business owners were also required to become agents of the government in enforcing COVID-19 mandates because local officials in too many Tennessee counties overreached their power,” he said.

Ramsey went on to claim that business owners “aren’t really concerned” with requiring people to wear masks but fear “being sanctioned, fined or shut down.”

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In his opinion, “so many fear the government more than the actual virus. Optics instead of reality. That’s ridiculous.”

He said that while local officials had good intentions, the “inconsistent application of these mandates is beyond the pale.”

The Medical Non-Discrimination Business & Consumer Act is one of several pieces of legislation being promoted by Tennessee Stands, a conservative nonprofit that was started in response to the pandemic. The anti-mask group, which is reportedly run by a former craft beer brewer and preacher, claims Tennesseans’ freedoms are at risk.

“Have you had enough of lawless executive orders and mandates?” the Tennessee Stands website asks. “Then you’re in the right place.”

The website also features a video entitled “Freedom is not Free” that begins with a year-old clip of Dr. Anthony Faucci saying masks were not needed at that point. The video recounts the founding of the United States and lauds those who fought to “escape tyranny,” weaving together images of conservative activist Kitty Werthmann, president of the South Dakota Eagle Forum, speaking in 2013 about growing up under Hitler in Germany, illustrated with images of George Floyd-inspired protests and photos of burning buildings.

Tennessee Stands, which sells “I love facial nudity” and “Mask-free Tennessee” T-shirts, also has asked Tennesseans to sign a resolution demanding that the governor stop issuing COVID-19-related executive orders, promoted a bill to add religious exemptions from vaccine requirements and advocated for a state constitutional amendment to protect individual liberties during emergencies.

“Please act and put an end to the medical discrimination happening across our state and the damage being done to business owners who have no interest in being coerced into public policy and law enforcement roles,” reads a letter drafted by the group to promote the mask discrimination bill.

Ramsey, a popular figure in Tennessee based on his faith-inspired teaching on personal finances, has been an outspoken COVID-19 skeptic and masking critic since early in the pandemic.

“You would think that the black plague was coming through the U.S., listening to people whine,” he told his national audience in March of 2020. “You guys have lost your mind out there.”

He has continued ridiculing those who wear masks and downplaying concerns about the coronavirus. In December, he hosted a Christmas party at his company’s headquarters that drew hundreds of unmasked revelers.

The Christian financial guru has also ridiculed COVID-19 stimulus checks, saying that if a “$600 dollar check changes your life, you are screwed!”

Ramsey has required the nearly 1,000 employees to work in the office, despite an outbreak of COVID-19 at the company. Ramsey Solutions has also fired employees whose spouses questioned company policy and told employees that they should leave if they do not trust company leaders.

Ramsey Solutions has also been accused of violating anti-discrimination laws after a pregnant employee was fired because she was not married. In response to a lawsuit, the company claimed in court that having premarital sex violated company policy. The lawsuit is currently pending.

In his video, Ramsey states that his company, based just south of Nashville, employs nearly 1,000 people and was named one of the best places to work in America.

Bob SmietanaBob Smietana is a national reporter for Religion News Service.

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69 thoughts on “Dave Ramsey’s New Crusade: Ending COVID-19 Mask Orders”

  1. I hope TN doesn’t turn blue, Patrick. I completely agree with what Ramsey says about covid whether I like how he does it or not. Forget who the messenger is. And its not about worshiping Donald Trump. I’m tired of the mocking of people (by folks like you) who have actually looked closely into all of this, have observed the inconsistencies and Nero like tendencies of health authorities, destroying small businesses and stopping churches from meeting, when SARS-Cov2 is not Ebola, or anything really serious. These folks in TN are freedom fighters who have done good science and are coming up against the Prince of the Power of the Air. Please think for a moment. I dislike much of how Donald Trump gave his message, but he WAS for the little man and for freedom. I think you are completely out to lunch about what is really going on in this country and with this virus. Try listening to people who have lived under communist regimes, and watched how such regimes work, deceive, and turn citizens against each other. I am one such person, and I’m horrified to see it happening in my own country. I pray we wake up before it is too late.
    BTW…GA and VA turned blue, in my view, due to deceit, manipulation, and downright evil. Godless people from other places coming to DC and to Atlanta,…. I suspect both were stolen.

    1. “ I dislike much of how Donald Trump gave his message……”
      So, cold remedy was supposed to taste good…..and you didn’t like its taste?
      See, in the world of the “Never Trumpers”, feelings play so much just as in the liberals’

      Uwe
      (Jude 3)
      Post Tenebras Lux

  2. Excellent. I am in total agreement with Dave on this one. Thank you Dave for speaking up and supporting freedom and common sense!

  3. Bill Gates thought fighting malaria was a noble way to spend his time and money. Be nice to see Ramsey doing something more meaningful like that.

    1. Bill Gates and his…Foundation…..was seeking “libel protection” for a vaccine he was interested on. Bill Gates can’t keep viruses away from his crappy operating system and now he wants libel protection from a “vaccine” he was supposed to work on?
      There is a nice, sunny & warm piece of real estate awaiting for you in the Florida Everglades. Very cheap. Bill Gates might have it for sale.

  4. Brian Patrick

    This behavior is nothing to be proud of. This lunacy, orchestrated by the former orange president, is what turns reliably red states blue and leads to all 4 branches of government being controlled by abortion worshipers. With a right like this we don’t need a left. I guess Tennessee will be the next Solid South state to go Demo after VA and now GA.

      1. Texas is flipping because of transplants from other states with a different political view that the traditional Texas politics. The one thing you can be certain about is change is inevitable as my pastor used to say, “Blessed are the flexible, they shall not be broken.”

        1. Bob,

          “Texas is flipping because of transplants from other states with a different political view that the traditional Texas politics.”

          Not really, not entirely. There are a lot of liberal Californians/NYers ruining their new states but there are also a lot of conservative refugees from those states. What’s really driving the bluing of former GOP strongholds is that Millennials and Gen Z are turning their backs wholesale on conservatism and the evangelical values they were raised with. If only under-30 whites could vote, every state would be super Democratic.

  5. Last I heard the branches of the government are the legislative, the executive, and the judicial. Could you let us know the name of that 4th branch of the government you mentioned?
    I don’t expect anything more from someone that says all 4 branches of government worship abortion.
    Please read some history, Roe vs. Wade was decided by a Court that was comprised of a majority of justices who were nominated by Republican presidents. Then read about the number of conservative courts since 1973 that failed to overturn it.
    I understand that since Trump his minions willingly live in an “alternative facts” world but not everyone whether Republican or Democratic wants to join them.

  6. @Eli – “Not really serious?” This virus has killed a half million people! Yes, they might all tend to be older and/or sick, but whatever happened to seeing people as being made in God’s image? Whatever happened to “honor thy father and mother?”

    Not only that, but COVID can cause all sorts of other problems. I had COVID pneumonia and was sick for nearly a month. Some people have long-term damage from COVID.

    The bill that is being proposed goes beyond “do what you want.” It mandates that business cannot a no-mask policy. In other words, it tells business owners that their personal preferences count for bunk in their own places of business. A mirror image of a mask mandate.

    1. Yes, I am serious! Masks do not stop covid. Are you seriously suggesting that the desire to be “ mask free” means I don’t “honor my father and mother”? Are you suggesting that half a million people would not have died if they had been wearing masks? Is that rational thinking?

      8 of my extended mask-wearing family members, between the ages of 2-92 all had covid. This mask frenzy feeds fear and irrationality. It causes people to muzzle kids, and people to be anti-social. It does terrible things to society. I see people hiking and biking twenty feet from other people wearing masks. How is that normal? Wear your mask, wear two or three! I’ll be happy when everyone is free not to wear them!

  7. Russ Seuffert

    Well, I’d rather be a live “wuss” than a dead mask denier ! Why is it that the further south you go in our country
    the further right you go in both politics and Christendom? “Well, it’s my right to not wear a mask.” you say. Well then, what about your Christian duty to consider your brother and his well-being? I remember Paul saying something about this.

    1. If you feel Christ lead, Russ, to wear a mask, then, by all means, you should do it.
      I wear one. I’ve had both vaccinations. I just think it’s a little wiser thing to do than not to wear one. But, I want the right to make my own, very old, mind up for myself. I value greatly my freedom to do that. There have been specific reasons I have taken it off in a public setting and I think I knew, all by myself, when that situation arose that required a “ no mask” time. Glad I wasn’t turned over to the mask police force. 😉

  8. A helpful data analyst looks at mask mandate and Covid cases :

    1. IM (@ianmSC) Tweeted:
    One day, history books will look back & study how Governors in different states were able to convince people at the same exact times to listen to public health guidance & behave properly, despite using different mandates or interventions at different times

    A historical miracle https://t.co/3vLuaKhnG9

    2. h/t @ianmSC https://t.co/0ZPBWBy2mi

    3. https://twitter.com/ianmSC

    Take a look at his data compilations.

  9. JMN,

    House, Senate, White House, SCOTUS. Even with all of Trump’s confirmations we only have a couple guaranteed votes to overturn Roe vs. Wade out of 9 and it is correct, as you point out, GOP and “Republican” justices are by no means guaranteed to rule against it. I completely agree that our team supporting Trump was an abomination from day one and it’s patently obvious we are in a much worse position on every front than we were in 2015-2016.

    1. The house and senate comprise the legislative branch. Roe v Wade is a product of a conservative court no matter how you want to twist it, Such is the way of the far right, when wrong double down.

      1. The blood of 60+ million human beings cry to you from the ground….to the far left lunatics.
        That’s over 10 times what the Nazis did to the Jewish people.
        Uwe
        (Jude 3)
        Post Tenebras Lux

        1. Undoubtedly
          As it cries to the pols with their phony outrage to gain political power and to keep their coffers well endowed.

      2. JMN,

        “The house and senate comprise the legislative branch.”

        I stand by what I wrote. Almost every source of reporting/opinion on Capitol affairs and elections mentions the House and Senate separately. It isn’t super relevant whether nominally GOP or Democratic justices support Roe, the point is that the overwhelming tidal wave of public opinion in favor of abortion more than negates one or two “pro-life” justices.

        1. Reporting/opinion does not trump the Constitution.
          As I do not and never have supported abortion I will not argue with you, merely pointing out the hypocrisy of the pols who use it in the same way they incite phony Dr. Seuss and Mr. Potato Head outrage.

          1. Brian Patrick

            JMN,

            I don’t really think we have an argument other than whether we should count the bicameral legislature as two branches of the federal government or just one–there is plenty of vile and filthy behavior by both the left and the right at the national level on down to city dogcatcher in 2021 and I think wise Bereans should be looking to nonbinary political options right about now.

  10. Bob’s (not) new crusade…obsessing over Dave Ramsay. Ok, as a Christian you want him to be kinder, gentler. I get it. But as a business leader he’s spot on. He’s entitled to endorse whatever legislation he deems worthy. He has a hard hitting style similar to that of James MacDonald and a lot of people respond to that because they need to hear the truth unfettered. I’m not sure he’s “ridiculing” the stimulus checks. He just knows what it takes to have financial freedom and when these principles are followed, the majority of people will benefit more from that than the checks themselves (I’m not referring to people who find themselves in financial hardship due to circumstances beyond their control).

    I would like to know though, why so many Christians have an issue with wealth and success as if that in and of itself is evil. If they were wealthy, they would of course do something different! And they would “prefer” to see Ramsay do something different with his. He does run a for profit business, does he not? And he’s not a pastor, correct? So he can buy big houses if he wants. He may be abrasive but I don’t think that gives us the right to question whether or not he is a Christian. That’s between him and God. He could be more respectful but he has a good point about Christians living in absolute fear of this virus.

    1. MG,

      “Ok, as a Christian you want him to be kinder, gentler. I get it. But as a business leader he’s spot on. He’s entitled to endorse whatever legislation he deems worthy. He has a hard hitting style similar to that of James MacDonald and a lot of people respond to that because they need to hear the truth unfettered.”

      Just a question–do you support Bezos, Cook, Wojicki, Zuckerberg, Dorsey, all business leaders far more savvy and powerful than Ramsey (who have the exact opposite politics)? If business acumen and financial prowess are signs of God’s blessing, the four men and one woman I listed have it in spades over Ramsey and MacDonald.

      1. Brian Patrick,

        No, as much as possible I don’t support the list of people you mentioned. Before you ask me if I’ve “ever” ordered something from Amazon, the answer is yes however I avoid it as much as possible and like to support my local mom and pops. I am not a social media person and I think Zuck and Dorsey are outrageously biased, but they can do that because they own private businesses. That brings me to Ramsey. I don’t support him either….like in the form of buying his books or listening to his radio show. (But I might if my finances needed some TLC ’cause he sure knows financial stuff!). I just think that as a private citizen and business owner he has the right to endorse whatever legislation he likes and he can make choices about how to run his business (and how to spend the money he earns). And I’m not sure why you’re bringing politics into it. Oh, yeah….because you’re the guy that refers to our former president as the orange president. We agree that the people you listed have loads of business acumen, financial prowess and they are quite savvy and powerful. The God’s blessing part? Not sure where that fits in. The only reason I brought up MacDonald is to compare his and Ramsey’s relational styles.

        1. Brian Patrick

          MG,

          “Oh, yeah….because you’re the guy that refers to our former president as the orange president.”

          If you’ve followed my posts you will see that I detest the toxic left and toxic right equally–and certainly in terms of the societal damage they do the latter is substantially worse. However, most Christians ally with the latter rather than the former. I would say the ratio of Trump-defending believers to progressive ones here is about 5:1. Far more Christians make a golden calf out of Trump than they do Biden or AOC or fill in the blank. So, there is particular need to call that out, right here.

          1. Brian Patrick

            Ugh the typo monster strikes again. I meant to write that the toxic LEFT does substantially worse societal damage. The toxic RIGHT does more damage within the church. Ugh, my bad, I am sorry.

  11. You have to hand it to him, Dave does align with the best and the brightest.
    “The HIV that was going to [cause] the global destruction of human bodies with AIDS, we heard about that in the ’80s,” he said. “Yet no masks were required.”
    Arizona State Representative Joseph Chaplik

  12. You know, I’m really quite fed up listening to the buffoonery on this website about mask, no mask, mask, no mask. Don’t you people get it? Don’t you? This has nothing to do with stomping on your personal protected constitutional rights. It’s got everything to do with common sense, sound judgment, and wisdom. Wear a mask, wash your hands, stand 6 feet apart, get a Covid vaccination, until we can get this virus under control and maybe even eradicated. What is so difficult or intrusive about that? The previous post said something about not having to wear masks during the AIDS crisis. What a completely absurd statement. You don’t get AIDS by not wearing a mask. You get it as a sexually transmitted disease, meaning if you don’t want to get AIDS, stay celibate or if you’re married remain exclusive to your own spouse. Julie works so hard bringing us these timely and necessary investigative reports. It is certainly disrespectful to her to use this site as a platform for brainless comments about serious medical issues made by people who have no medical expertise but do have what is known as flapping lip disease.

    1. Exactly! Common sense, like wearing a mask at the beach, in the woods and while alone in the car.
      My 80 year old mom gets harassed at the grocery store when her mask falls below her nose… that is what I call buffoonery! .

  13. Sams wrote: “ This has nothing to do with stomping on your personal protected constitutional rights. It’s got everything to do with common sense, sound judgment, and wisdom. Wear a mask, wash your hands, stand 6 feet apart, get a Covid vaccination, until we can get this virus under control and maybe even eradicated. What is so difficult or intrusive about that? ”
    Are you aware of the fact that NO mask can block the virus? The only mask that can block 95.5% of the COVID virus is….drum roll…..the N95 mask. The other 0.5% will get right through to your lungs
    The smoke particle is about 4.4 microns. The COVID virus is about 1.2 microns. If you can smell smoke through your so called “Holly Than Thou Mask”, the virus is getting into your lungs. That (assuming the wearer is properly trained how to use it) mask has to be replaced every 4 hours due to moisture contamination. No bandana, t-shirt, can block the virus. Unless of course, you belong to ANTIFA and the BLM movement; they can “protest” all they want.
    Turkish Airlines flies a Boeing 787 almost daily, from Istanbul to Miami. Over 6,000 miles, over 12 hours of flight…with 297 passengers on board. Where is that so called “social distance”? They are PACKED…like sardines. 6 feet in front and to the back of every passenger, 6 to the left and right. That’s 144 squared feet per passenger. That is over 40,000 square feet required for all those 297 passengers. If you were to divide into 6 feet “social distance”, you’d need a square over 200 feet per side. That is math…not your “flapping lip” disease.
    That so called “vaccine” is not a vaccine; it is a DNA/RNA experiment….being injected into your body. A REAL vaccine takes about 5 years to test and develop. How about your disease of “flapping lips”?
    Ignorance is bliss…

    Uwe
    (Jude 3)
    Post Tenebras Lux

    1. Brian Patrick

      Uwe,

      If Trump had made masking up a priority from the beginning, and urged an aggressive response to the spread of COVID or the “China Virus” as he called it at one time–would you be speaking and advocating like you do now?

      I think I know the answer to that.

  14. I agree with Ramsey about masks. Very few people wear them correctly, and the virus is so small that the masks are of very little help, if at all. People who are constantly touching their masks, pushing them up or down, can spread the virus, if they have the virus. Who changes his mask every four hours? Do masks “slow down” the transmission of the COVID virus? Maybe. But maybe they give a false sense of security and safety too. Why do the most stringent blue states seem to have the worst outbreaks of COVID? I’m one of the most vulnerable with pre-existing conditions (type 2 diabetes and high blood pressure), and I’m 76 years old. Still, I’ve been to multiple functions (and on full planes) with no mask or a pulled down mask, and I’m still COVID free. Many of the passengers on airplanes wear their masks badly. And, why is it OK to eat and drink on airplanes without masks? Does eating and drinking on airplanes and restaurants with no masks somehow prevent the spread of the virus? These things don’t make any sense to me. And, the guys out riding bikes or running outdoors wearing masks with no one around for blocks, have to have something wrong with their brains. That’s either virtue signaling or plain stupidity because it has nothing to do with spreading or preventing the COVID virus. I didn’t plan to write this much, but there’s so much wrong about the mask mandates. And don’t get me started on forcing people to get the vaccine!

    1. Both Uwe and you fail to understand that the virus is carried on droplets which you exhale when breathing, coughing, or speaking. The masks reduce the spread and dispersion of said droplets which when coupled with distancing reduces the probability of others inhaling the droplets. It’s really quite simple.

    2. Brian Patrick

      PastorDaveJ,

      It’s your call on whether or not you want to wear a mask or not, if your state allows that. However, you are defending Dave Ramsey who wants to ban businesses from requiring masks ON THEIR OWN PROPERTY. I would like to see you spin a defense of that. That’s not Libertarianism, that’s authoritarianism which of course is what Trump and Trumpists (including Ramsey) have stood for all along. They may be generally less effective at it than the left but that doesn’t matter one bit regarding their motives and goals.

      1. Brian,

        All these so-called “conservative” Trumpists and so-called “social conservatives” like Uwe and PastorDaveJ are really just authoritarians and statists. They sure as h*ll are not conservative or Constitutionalist by any means.

  15. I often wonder why the outrage about wearing masks but not about wearing seatbelts.

    On another note, I recently read ‘And the Band Played On’ about the HIV epidemic. It’s interesting how the same sort of argument regarding individual liberties vs public health measures happened then, as it is happening now.

    In the early years after AIDS was first recognized, not a lot was known about it other than it appeared to be transmitted through blood and body fluids, and could be lethal in some folks. A debate raged about whether to continue to allow certain liberties that *might* facilitate its spread, or institute public health measures that would curtail liberties but *might* save lives. There was too little data to say with absolute certainty just how widespread and lethal it was or wasn’t. For quite awhile, the ‘individual liberties’ camp essentially won out. It takes years to generate good, solid scientific data on a new disease. And while that data were being generated, people were dying. Once the information was very clear that HIV/AIDS is, in fact, extremely serious and by that point widespread, the ‘cat was out of the bag’ so to speak. People had died who wouldn’t have died if appropriate precautions had been taken sooner.

    COVID is not HIV. However, the COVID pandemic currently has some things in common with the early days of the HIV epidemic. Namely, there is still a lot that is unknown about the disease, it’s long term
    ramifications, and how best to prevent it. Until we have hoards of excellent research on it, which will take years, some people prefer to try not to repeat the mistakes of the past but to err on the side of caution, and give up some minor liberties (like a naked face) temporarily, since there IS reason to believe they may decrease (not eliminate) transmission. I, for one, would hate to eschew precautions now, only to find out years later that they just might have saved lives.

    1. Hill Bill Lee

      K – I’ve been in the biz of dealing with deceptive and greedy people for decades, and think the majority of people do not begin to understand the complex nature of deception and greed, but rather are far too trusting of people, especially those in authority. In fact without the elements of deception and greed, one is far less likely to get into positions of power.

      Did you know Dr Fraudchi is the same guy who was intimately involved in the supposed HIV crisis, and was desperately trying to create a vaccine for it?

      Did you know there are many doctors who deny that HIV causes AIDS?

      Did you know there are many doctors who successfully treat HIV positive people without antibiotics, antivirals, or pharmaceuticals?

      Did you know there are over a hundred unrelated conditions (like pregnancy) where a person could test positive for HIV?

      I could go on and on, but my point is the same deceptive and fraudulent practices surround the current supposed pandemic, but too many people (including Julie Roys) are content in believing what they are being fed from the top. I John 5:19 applies to governments and their “science” (full of assumptions).

      https://www.ukcolumn.org/article/covid-19-hoax

      1. Hi Hill Bill Lee (clever, I like it;)

        Yup I have a few degrees in this area and take care of patients as my job. I have learned a couple things about infectious disease here and there;)

        I have indeed had pregnant patients test positive for HIV. Testing is typically a 2-step process. First test is a screening test. If positive, a confirmatory test is done.
        2-step testing for various conditions is not uncommon, especially when confirmatory tests are difficult and/or expensive to run. Negative screening tests weed out most people who don’t have a particular condition but leave a few in whom
        It is uncertain. Then we run diagnostic testing to find out for sure. That’s how the tests are designed to work.

        To address the article- I wish I could see an outline of it because i find it rather hard to identify their line of reasoning well.

        At the very end, the authors agree that many people have died from a ‘respiratory’ disease. But they say maybe it’s not caused by coronavirus, because COVID-19 doesn’t fit all of Koch’s postulates and tests aren’t perfect. I think this is generally their main point (I could be wrong).

        A couple questions/comments for them. Id like to see their evidence for a different cause of what is commonly being referred to as COVID-19. Maybe I missed it, but it I don’t see any alternate hypothesis. Surely something is causing this disease.

        Suppose folks are mistaken and the disease that’s killing people is caused by a different virus. In practicality, what would change in the public health management of it? Not much if anything.We’d still encourage people to avoid activities that spread disease. We’d still be trying learn about the disease and make a vaccine.

        About testing- it’s not 100% perfect because no lab test is. Especially early in development.

        A brief word on Koch’s postulates- a postulate is by definition an assumption, not absolute truth. Koch’s were helpful in the early days of studying certain infectious diseases a long time ago. Koch himself found that his postulates don’t always apply. Today, far more is known about infectious disease than in his day. it is understood that many complex factors affect whether someone who is exposed to an infectious agent will develop signs and symptoms, and if so, when. Many infectious diseases don’t cause recognizable signs or symptoms right away, such as HIV, HPV, Hepatitis C, HSV, chlamydia etc. Some of this is due to long incubation periods (like HIV). Sometimes it is because the immune system fights the virus successfully. Sometimes cellular changes caused by an infectious agent can be seen under the microscope but the immune system fights off the disease before recognizable symptoms develop.

        At any rate, the whole world has lots yet to learn about this thing called COVID-19 and in the meantime, we do the best we can with the knowledge we have.

        It’s good to keep asking questions!

        1. Hill Bill Lee

          K – thanks for the response!

          I believe the article is pointing out the Achilles heal in the covid-19 debate in that no one anywhere, or at anytime, has ever truly isolated said virus, then shown a study where said virus is statistically the definitive cause of illness.

          If this has not taken place, then all subsequent measures (masking, social distancing, genomic sequencing, pcr “testing”, operating systems vaccine, etc.) are nothing but wild guesses and assumptions. That type of “science” is nothing more than trickery and fraud.

          Can you provide studies that have done this?

          Many studies use the word “isolate”, but do not by definition show isolation, and their authors when questioned have admitted to no true isolation.

          Almost six thousand people (including doctors and scientists worldwide) have signed since this was published only days ago.

          https://andrewkaufmanmd.com/sovi/

          1. Andrew Kauffman is a psychiatrist by training and education for starters, NOT an epidemiologist or biochemist and the like. But go ahead and continue to push that fraud.

            Here is another fact:

            One of Kauffman’s favourite examples for why his war against germ theory is justified is the case of Stefan Lanka, which he sells to his audience as “the Supreme Court of Germany actually ruled that there is no measles virus that’s been proved to exist” (from his interview with London Real, time code 1:04:00). The truth is that Lanka issued a challenge: he wanted a single scientific paper that, on its own, proved beyond the shadow of a doubt that the virus existed. When a doctor named David Bardens produced six papers that together met the burden of proof, Lanka refused to pay and the Court recognized that Lanka was free to set the rules as he saw fit because this was an award and he could give it to whomever. IOW, Kauffman rigged the rules of his own game.

            Here is a counter-link:

            https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/covid-19-pseudoscience/psychiatrist-who-calmly-denies-reality

            Apparently your 1 John 5:19 does NOT apply to conspiracy theorists like yourself and Kauffman.

          1. Hill Bill Lee

            CM, certainly that’s one spin on it, but read for yourself. German court rules no proof that HIV or Measles has ever been isolated.

            http://whale.to/m/hiv.html

            https://learninggnm.com/SBS/documents/Lanka_Bardens_Trial_E.pdf

            https://learninggnm.com/SBS/documents/Lanka_Case_Protokoll_13_4_2015.pdf

            If the issue of isolation and proof of causation of covid-19 is so simple and straight forwards, then why have no governments or health departments been able to provide such documents? Why has CDC admitted they have no isolated or gold standard? Why have authors of such papers confess to no such thing when confronted?

        2. Then there are prion diseases like mad cow, scrapie in animals and Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease (CJD) in humans which are caused by a misfolded protein that the classic Koch postulates do not address.

          But I guess deniers like Hill Bill Lee think those diseases don’t exist (and neither do prions) despite the fact that Nuclear magnetic resonance (NMR) spectroscopy and X-ray crystallography have determined the structure of these mis-folded proteins.

          1. CM, Not so fast, my good buddy. :) Don’t let the chemical and pharma companies off the hook so easily – money is stronger than truth in this arena (Satan’s domain). Always ask what exactly causes what?

            https://www.dcnutrition.com/insecticides-the-cause-of-mad-cow-disease/

            http://whale.to/m/madcow.html

            These same evil entities pay billions to have studies done that exclude them from liability by blaming so called contagious outbreaks on a virus. Ever hear of swine flu, ebola, polio, zika, etc. The reality is fear is the true contagion, and fear is a liar, and a big money maker. :)

      2. Brian Patrick

        Hill Bill Lee,

        If you are so diametrically opposed to everything Julie writes and believes in, why do you come here? Do you see us trolling QAnon or David Icke or whatever you believe in’s forums?

        It’s possible that everything we have ever been told is a total lie. We might be figments of some alien computer’s AI living in a literal Matrix. How far down the rabbit hole do you want to go?

        1. Hill Bill Lee

          Brian P – where did I say I am diametrically opposed to everything Roys writes here?

          I support the articles on true abuse within the church, but am disheartened to have read a year’s worth of judging those according to a bogus standard (covid-19). Her blind trust in government funded science has betrayed her. The cart was way out before the horse and the trick worked – far too many people believed what they were propagandized with.

    2. And unlike those early years of AIDS, we now have “Dr. Google” where people can find virtually anything to support what they want to believe. It’s scary when people think they know better than those who have devoted their lives to rigorous study and research, and simply dismiss them as insincere.

      1. Hill Bill Lee

        L Martin,

        “It Is Difficult to Get a Man to Understand Something When His Salary Depends Upon His Not Understanding It”. Upton Sinclair

        Medical schools indoctrinate more often than not. Same with seminaries.

        To think outside the box is a virtue, even if they unjustly accuse you of embracing conspiracy theories.

        Truth in the history of redemption generally speaking only remained in the hands of the remnant.

        1. Well perhaps you should apply your cynicism of the medical establishment to your media outlets as well. I’m sure they like money too

        2. Brian Patrick

          Hill Bill Lee,

          I don’t reject all conspiracy theories. Some of them are plain fact (i.e. Fast and the Furious, Hezbollahgate, Benghazi under the Obama Admin) that have essentially been admitted. However, most of what you rattled off is flat-out lunacy. Do you really expect a dying, perishing world to accept all that and have an attractive view of Christians as rational mature beings?

          1. Hill Bill Lee

            Flat out lunacy? Interesting comment. Sounds like you need to spend more time digging and researching.

            Here’s one site for starters.

            http://gamzuletova.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/HIV-AIDS-The-Isolation-of-HIV-Has-it-really-been-achieved_-The-case-against.pdf

            Have you ever watched the 2019 movie “Dark Waters”? It documents one brave attorney’s long journey of fighting the corruption of a chemical company. Pharmaceutical and chemical companies are in the top tier for most corrupt corporations in the world.

            I have atheist friends who see right through covid-19 and know it’s a manufactured crisis that is being used by governments and corporations (fascism) to control and enslave people. They aren’t impressed with all the churches conforming to all the lies and cognitive dissonance from those in power.

            Much like the judaizers in Paul’s day: “false brothers had infiltrated our ranks to spy on the freedom we have in Christ Jesus and to make us slaves” (Gal. 2:4).

          2. Hill Bill Lee,

            No thanks. I am not interested in your fairytales. Maybe someone else here is.

          1. CRYING FROM THE MOUNTAIN

            Gordon, my pastor used to call them cemeteries , is that what you meant?

  16. I want to correct some misconceptions or what I believe are poor thinking

    1.Masks do help, while it is true that masks that ARE NOT N95 don’t trap the all the virus, they can reduce the viral load which can reduce the chances of how sick you get. Also we don’t know who may have a genetic predisposition to get ill or die from exposure.
    2. People not wearing masks correctly is a lack of teaching. Even if they are only covering f their mouth, many people are mouth breathers anyway
    3.Most of my non Christians think we Christians are anti science and I intend to agree. We seem to jump at every conspiracy out there. Plenty of people have died at church have been sickened because the ignorance of pastors and elders. God created science too and it serves hit kingdom.
    4- Dave Ramsey has little respect for many of his employees by making them come in.
    He doesn’t know who is immune compromised and at risk.
    5. One writer mentioned HIV and I was nurse in Atlanta during the onset of the crisis, there was so much we didn’t know Initially but we learned and adapted, Covid is no different.
    6. An astute doctor who is not a believer made a comment , he says there is a division, you have science ( medical etc) and business on the other side ( mainly concerned with profits, often above the welfare of people) and if you are going to err, err on the science and I think he is right. In my town of Knoxville, the city council made up of business people stripped the local health department to make decisions for the community regarding Covid. Know you think most of those council who own businesses are really interested in what is best for our people?

    1. Brian Patrick

      Chuck P,

      I don’t get how any logical Christian would disagree with any of your six points, and I suspect that few would have prior to the advent of the orange wannabe emperor in 2015.

      I don’t think Christians should blindly trust “science” (after all, modern “science” insists that a nine-month-old fetus is just a blob of cells, and that there is no such thing as innate male and female biological sexes)–but it’s idiotic for us to go out of our way to be anti-science, as well.

      1. Brian, would you have been happier if clinton had been elected in 2016? Because that was the other choice, sadly.

        1. You do understand that in 2016 and in 2020 you could vote for neither the Giant Douche nor the Turd Sandwich right?

  17. While it’s true that Dave Ramsey is not a minister, and he does run a business not a not-for-profit org., it is also true that he markets his products partly to Christians and churches directly. It’s also true that many Christians listen regularly to his radio show and are thus influenced by him in little ways beyond good financial practices. Ramsey has also spoken out on matters of interest in the evangelical subculture, for example, his statements supporting Mark Driscoll even after his errors had been publicly revealed. So therefore, it’s entirely appropriate for his actions and statements to be watched and reported on in media that are within the target audience of his business. It would be even more appropriate for him to submit himself to his own pastor(s) in private for spiritual direction and counsel.

    Also, whatever one wants to learn about from Ramsey one could also learn about from other ministries, such as Crown Financial.

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