For decades, John MacArthur has stressed that every Christian should become a member of a local church and submit to that church’s leaders. Then, if a member falls into sin, MacArthur taught, the church must discipline the member, and publicly rebuke and shun him should the person refuse to repent.
Given this prominent teaching, one would expect that Steve Lawson, a former dean and longtime board member at MacArthur’s The Master’s University and Seminary (TMUS), was a member of a local church. And given Lawson’s silence and apparent unwillingness to repent for his sin, he should be placed under church discipline.
However, a pastor and TMUS graduate claimed on his podcast last week that Lawson wasn’t an elder, a pastor, or even a member at Trinity Bible Church of Dallas. Trinity is where Lawson had served as lead preacher before the church fired him in September for sexual misconduct with a much younger woman.
Now, constituents of TMUS and other ministries formerly associated with Lawson are demanding to know how these ministries allowed a man who allegedly wasn’t even a member of a church to serve in leadership.
Neeva Walters, a former member at John MacArthur’s Grace Community Church (GCC), shared concerns Nov. 10 on X.
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“Elders at GCC are finding out the info regarding Lawson’s membership via articles posted on X?!?! I’m not sure which is worse. Believing this incompetency, or believing they already knew & platformed him, & then handed off his discipline to TBC anyway,” Walters posted.
Cliff McManis, a graduate of TMUS and pastor of Creekside Bible Church in Cupertino, CA, said on his podcast, With All Wisdom, that he had learned of Lawson’s status during a conversation with an employee at Trinity.
“(The employee) agreed (Lawson) was not an elder,” McManis said. “He was not a pastor. They kind of waffled when I said, ‘Was he a member?’ They didn’t want to tell me. It was pretty obvious he wasn’t.
“They also agreed and acknowledged that as far as they know, the elders of their church are not the ones managing the Matthew 18 process with him of church discipline.”
Trinity Bible has not responded to multiple requests from The Roys Report to confirm Lawson’s membership status and say whether the church is pursuing a discipline process with Lawson.
Trinity announced on its website Sept. 19 that Lawson had “been removed indefinitely from all ministry activities,” after admitting to “an inappropriate relationship” with a woman.
Three days later, Trinity elder Mark Becker addressed the congregation and stressed the importance of church discipline. But the church has remained tight-lipped about Lawson since then.
Carl Hargrove, an elder at MacArthur’s Grace Community Church (GCC) and an associate professor at TMUS, confirmed on X that Lawson was not an elder at Trinity but could not verify his membership status.
“When I was informed (Lawson wasn’t an elder), I asked twice whether or not that was actually the case. It was confirmed!” Hargrove posted. “Hopefully, we TRULY learn our lessons from this tragedy. I was speaking to my students recently and said that we must evaluate highlighting speakers who have no real connection to the local church. It must stop!”
TMUS has remained relatively quiet about Lawson situation.
The school sent its students an email Sept. 20, announcing it had cut ties with Lawson because of the scandal, but has not publicly addressed the matter.
TMUS did not respond to TRR’s requests for comment.
How was Lawson vetted?
The recent debacle has caused some to question the credibility of the process TMUS used when hiring Lawson.
Matt LePage questioned GCC elder and TMUS professor Carl Hargrove about the hire Nov. 8 on X.
“Were you and the leadership at GCC and TMS not aware that Steve Lawson wasn’t a member of a local church? How was he appointed as the director of the Doctoral Program under these circumstances? It seems surprising that a role with such spiritual influence wouldn’t involve confirming a candidate’s active commitment to a local church community,” LePage posted.
In a separate thread, Hargrove addressed the matter Nov. 8.
“I discovered after his fall that he wasn’t even an elder in his church. Disappointed that I assumed such. Reasonable, yet wrong,” Hargrove posted.
Dennis Swanson, a former vice president at TMUS, said in 2013, he expressed concerns about hiring Lawson to TMUS Executive Vice President Dick Mayhew.
“Dick told me (MacArthur) would just fire whoever voted no and have a revote. Mac wanted it and that was it,” Swanson told TRR. The faculty, which included Swanson and two other TMUS vice presidents, voted unanimously to hire Lawson.
Swanson said his main concern regarding Lawson was his unwillingness to put in the work required of a TMUS dean. Swanson’s concerns were justified, he said, when TMUS hired an assistant for Lawson, who did much of the “paperwork and organizational things.”
“He was entirely the most disinterested person I’d ever seen in my life,” Swanson said. “He was going to get the job no matter what. He had no interest in doing (certain) things and made it clear he wasn’t going to. It was like anything else with him. Over the years, I discovered that he wanted to speak and teach and do what he wanted to do and didn’t want to do anything else.”
Swanson left TMUS in 2015 and said he has no direct knowledge of Lawson’s membership status at Trinity.
Another organization criticized for failing to better vet Lawson is G3 Ministries, a nonprofit that hosts conferences where Lawson would regularly speak.
Mary Burke questioned G3 President Josh Buice about the process Nov. 9 on X.
“Josh, I am talking about making sure everything lined up before you featured him at every conference. I am not talking about the steps you took after the news broke. You had a responsibility to vet him,” Burke posted.
In response to the criticism, Buice said, “It wasn’t as if he was completely unchecked. It wasn’t as if he was demonstrating no local church membership. Further, he wasn’t an employee of G3. He was a guest speaker. The fact is – he deceived everyone. We cannot be blamed for his sin.”
However, Buice added that G3 will be announcing “new vetting procedures for all speakers at our events to avoid something like this again – even if it’s a freak thing.”
Can Trinity discipline Lawson if he’s not a member?
Some expressed disappointment that TMUS and the church associated with the school, Grace Community Church, haven’t publicly rebuked Lawson for his sin.
McManis said in the late 1980s, when he attended TMUS, MacArthur announced the affair of two staff members to students during chapel as a public rebuke.
Also, as TRR previously reported, MacArthur publicly shamed and excommunicated Eileen Gray when she refused to take back her abusive husband into her home. Even after Gray’s husband was convicted in 2005 of aggravated child molestation, corporal injury to a child, and child abuse, MacArthur maintained his position.
Phil Johnson, an elder and pastor at GCC, told TRR he believes Trinity could use the discipline process outlined in Matthew 18 with Lawson, even if he isn’t a member.
“An attorney might say it puts the church on shaky legal ground if they ultimately excommunicate him, and that may be true,” Johnson wrote in an email to TRR. “But morally and biblically, I believe they can put him through the discipline process.
“Member or not, I presume he was paid something for being the lead teacher there, so I don’t think he has any biblical right to opt out of the discipline process with the claim that he wasn’t officially a ‘member.’ In the role he served, he was more than a member.”
UPDATE: After seemingly confirming that Lawson was not a member of Trinity Bible Church, G3 Ministries President Josh Buice today published a statement saying “two sources within Trinity Bible Church” had verified that Lawson is a member of Trinity. Buice did not identify the sources, and Trinity has not issued a statement regarding Lawson’s membership or elder status. The church also has removed its Sept. 19 statement about Lawson’s “inappropriate relationship” from its website.
Pastors Cliff McManis and his cohost on With All Wisdom, Derek Brown, responded to Buice’s statement, saying his “testimony is in conflict with what we learned from a staff member at Trinity.” McManis and Brown say the Trinity staff member said “waffled” when asked if Lawson was a member. The staff member also reportedly said the church is not managing a Matthew 18 disciplinary process with Lawson. The Pastors said they also spoke with another Trinity staff member, who “was unable to verify that Lawson had gone through a formal membership process and had been placed on Trinity’s rolls.”
Ann Marie Shambaugh has reported as a print journalist in multiple states, including currently in Carmel, Indiana.
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42 Responses
Are Baptist pastors typically members of their churches? Is MacArthur a member of his church? I’m genuinely unaware of how this works.
Baptist pastors are generally, if not always, members of the church they are serving.
Methodist pastors, on the other hand, are NEVER members of a local church, but of the Annual Conference (a regional body) where their pastorate is located.
Yes, Presbyterians also are members of a regional body but not the local church. But I wasn’t sure how it worked in Baptist/congregational churches where there is no regional body with stated authority. Thanks for clarifying.
Yes, the pastor in a Baptist church usually must be a member in good standing (when coming from the outside, he applies to become a member of the church). Obviously the role of elder is a pastoral role (the words are the same in Greek); elders are the overseers of the church; every head pastor must be an elder if he is to have any authority. Christ is the head and shepherd of the church and the pastors-elders-overseers are his “under-shepherds”. Many churches are led by a group of elders and pastors are typically considered elders and part of that board.
Yes, outside of “interim” pastors who are only at a church temporarily until a full-time pastor is called. If the interim ends up being the new pastor (which happens often), he (and his family) become members.
Lawson is gospel grifter and a snake oil salesman of no moral character.
The communication limitations in 1880 may have made it difficult to identify the Old West hucksters and frauds, but there is no excuse today.
The whole celebrity circuit is extremely dangerous and the eulogy handed out to these people. I recall Steve Lawson saying in front of John Macarthur , at a conference , that Macarthur was the John Calvin of our time. It should have been rebuked by Macarthur , but wasn’t. This sort of stuff should STOP.
Do you remember which conference this took place? I am currently doing some research to write a book on “celebrity pastors” and it would be helpful. Thank you in advance!
Steve Lawson was there at the founding of Trinity Bible Church of Dallas along with Kent Stainback, Mark Becker and Matt Heildelbaugh. He advertised the new church extensively at the Mens Bible Study he held in Herb’s House (owned by Kent Stainbeck) on 9 November and 7 December 2017 (we were watching the study). These studies were posted on Sermon audio.com until a few weeks ago but have since been deleted. Prior to the starting of Trinity Bible Church of Dallas, Steve Lawson, Kent Stainback, Mark Becker and Matt Heidelbaugh were at Believers Chapel in Dallas. Kent was an elder there and he and Matt Heidelbaugh were teaching bible classes. In January 2017, Steve Lawson had been appointed preacher at large, on the recommendation of the elders and preached regularly, led a week-day morning Businessmen’s Bible Study, teaching at the Men’s Retreat, and conducted Friday/Saturday Bible conferences at the church. There has been a very close personal and spiritual relationship between these men for a number of years. As elders charged with protecting the flock (Acts 20:28-31), they have failed the congregation and need to deeply examine themselves. This also applies to other organisations/churches including The Masters Seminary and Grace Community Church. In relation to Believers Chapel, there is a FB entry on 16 Jan 2017 that starts “The elders are pleased to announce that Dr. Steven J. Lawson has accepted our invitation to participate in the ministry of Believers Chapel as Minister at Large.”
If these people would read and apply what is clearly stated in the Bible, they would see this whole membership issue is bogus.
“So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls. And they devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers.….And all who believed were together and had all things in common.….And the Lord added to their number day by day those who were being saved.” (Acts 2:41-47) Nothing is said about membership classes or rolls there.
“And more than ever believers were added to the Lord, multitudes of both men and women,” (Acts 5:14) They were added to the Lord, that is, the Body of Christ, the one true church, not to a local church membership list or a denomination.
The Matthew 18 discipline process begins with “If your brother sins against you …” not “if a church member sins against another church member”. There is no scriptural basis for church membership as practiced today. Therefore, Lawson cannot hide behind his nonmember excuse, and any member of the Body of Christ he has sinned against has the right to begin the Matthew 18 process.
Amen Dan, what a great response.
Exactly, Dan Weingarten!
Spot-on.
It seems that so many say they are “sola scriptura” except when it comes to fellowshipping as they did in Acts and understanding the Greek word (“ekklesia”) translated as “church”!
After years of observation and reflection, I think the reason for that is that unregenerate ego-led types are horrified at the idea of a 1st Corinthians 12 “body” where ALL are equal and there is ONE head: Jesus.
Yes, ONE head ONLY.
[“Elders” simply means OLD MEN i.e mature mentors and supervisors. NOT “leaders”].
I join on to say yes / amen to Moira, Cliff, and Dan
Why cannot the simple truth of what is commanded/required plainly in scripture be enough? One likely probable is that it does not afford men the power and control over other people.
Belief and baptism give you membership in the universal body of Christ’s church. The verses prove that out. There is absolutely nothing in the Bible that says we need to fill out some stupid form to gain access to the Body of Christ. It is sad that after 500 years, we Protestants have actually reformed very little.
Several years ago, I was denied by the head of the denomination the right to go through the Matthew 18 process regarding the pastor’s well-documented sin of plagiarism because I was not a “member”. Meanwhile, the pastor fast-tracked the admission of 2 new members to increase his chances of a favorable vote. Before church one Sunday, I asked one of those new members where he was the previous Sunday, just making conversation. Without hesitating, he told me he belonged to a group that investigates paranormal activity, and they had spent the weekend at a “haunted house”. I told the pastor about it, but of course, nothing came of it. Needless to say, I left that “church”, and it soon closed its doors. Sad.
I agree with this statement. Where does the scripture say you have to have your name on a church roll ? Which denomination did Jesus’s belong too ?
So true. This is not a Matthew 18 case, and there is nothing in scripture saying anything about a local building/church membership. I was a member the day I accepted Jesus Christ as my savior.
1 Cor 12:25-26: so that there may be no division in the body, but that the members may have the same care for one another. 26 And if one member suffers, all the members suffer with it; if one member is honored, all the members rejoice with it.
coverups, deceit, stonewalling … these doctrinal dictators don’t give a rip about their harm to the body of Christ and our testimony to an ever darker world
If I recall correctly, wasn’t it learned after the Ravi Zacharias scandal broke that Ravi was not a member of a local church?
Now I wonder how many Christian apologists, evangelists, and musicians that travel around North America and the world aren’t members of a local church?
Perhaps listing “dean at TMUS” on his resume created sufficient credibility for parachurch organizations and churches to assume that Lawson was academically qualified and spiritually eligible for leadership?
In the evangelical industrial complex, speaking engagements and book tours often beget further invitations and publishing contracts such that some names become well known in certain circles. If a famous individual is later found to be living in serious sin, the Christian community is shocked because we relied too heavily on the accumulating endorsements of others without conducting our own reasonable investigations. It appears that Lawson, like some megachurch pastors, acted as a free agent without much, if any, accountability.
There is One Book in which our name is written when we receive forgiveness of sin through the Blood of the Only One Who died for our sins: The Book of Life of Yahshua haMashiach, our Bridegroom and Redeemer (even a created human spouse would never shed his blood for the sin of his wife, or a wife for her husband’s indiscretions – only Yahshua would and did so, for us, His Bride). Isaiah warns in chapter 8 verse 9 of the peril of making associations, other than through YHWH and His Son. Adam and Chawah met daily with YHWH in the cool of the day: this is true Church, when 2 or 3 are gathered in Yahshua’s Name, He promises. For this, satan attempts to destroy and desecrate the sanctity of Covenant between a man and the wife of his youth. Malachi 2:14. Shaul the apostle also resolutely stated that no man is to state that he belongs to this group or that one. Any attempt to force one to sign his name to any other covenant than that of YHWH’s Times and Laws, His Son the Word Made Flesh, can become abusive and manipulative. House Cleaning is happening on tables now, for there is no place clean due to vomit and filth on every table as YHWH’s Times and Laws have been changed by satan himself, the anti-Messiah one: Isaiah 28:8. Isaiah chapter 14 describes satan stating that he would change the Moedim of YHWH and make up his own. YHWH has Seven Eyes of Fire – His 7 Feasts/Shabbats which HIs Son Yahshua has full-filled and continues to do so. Everything other than That, Him, is wicked with no rest: Revelation 14:11
I hear phrases like ‘holding him accountable” and “disciplining him”. I’m just curious how that is done? Is public shaming really taught biblically? How about forgiveness and love to help restore a brother? Is that not more important than discipline?
Hard to restore someone who is unrepentant. Lawson had a very public ministry, I’m yet to hear of any repentance.
Actually, 1 Cor. 5 commands us not to associate with a brother who is guilty of sexual immorality, and is not repentant, as Lawson seems to be.
I am not a Lawson apologist, but I believe there is an important distinction between a confession of sin (a sign of possible repentance), and continuing in the sin.
No reports indicate that Lawson is still in a sinful relationship. Point being repentance can be valid even without a confession or some other public statement or sign of repentance.
I see the statement by Jesus to “go thy way; from henceforth sin no more” as the test of repentance. If Lawson is still in an adulterous relationship, then, yes, disassociation would certainly be appropriate.
From the few details we know, his confession was forced, vs. showing signs of repentance. (The woman’s father was going to out him if he said nothing.) Furthermore, he is no longer living in the same location as his wife. In this case, we should be treating him ‘as’ an unbeliever until he publicly repents before the church, not assuming he did behind the scenes.
Unfortunately, Lawson publicly shamed others that don’t hold his exact values and methods of teaching & preaching. Those of us seeking revenge have been unleashed on him. We’ll keep investigating.
No way this is Lawson’s first foray into infidelity, in my opinion. The brazen nature of what he and this young lady did tells me he’s done it before and likely many times before. He had no conviction about it whatsoever. The girl’s father forced him to admit what was happening. It still could be happening? Maybe someone can get a previous lady friend to come forward.
Also, it’s almost impossible to believe John Mac and his leadership had no idea about this and any priors. When John Mac says we “need to circle the wagons” he’s talking about circling the wagons around him and his legacy. This could become a real problem for GCC if people can get to the full truth here. It’ll likely take some time. The lawyers and PR spin consultants are hard at work.
What is Lingonier ministries saying about all this? I go to Saint Andrew’s Chapel in Sanford Florida and I haven’t heard anything about this .
The by-laws of my former non-denominational church stated that if you regularly attended worship services at that church they assumed you were affiliated with the church and therefore they could apply the discipline policy to you even if you had not formally agreed to church membership. My understanding is that these by-laws originated from boilerplate language written by someone at Dallas Theological Seminary, so I’m assuming other churches have similar policies. Maybe I missed it in the article, but has someone from TRR obtained a copy of the discipline policies of these churches? Have others seen this type of non-member clause in church policies?
This is where credentialing by a denomination is so important. Being accountable to people and a structure outside and above the local church. If no one beyond the local congregation has any part in discipline of ministers, it is way too easy for a cult of personality to excuse and overlook serious issues. It can still happen in a denomination, but it seems a larger org helps reduce the chance of that to some degree.
Gameshows & big business allow the silliest things to happen. That 1st century pattern of the early church looks pretty good right now -as if could be improved upon. Arrogance doesn’t blend well with servant-leadership, but fits nicely with being a manager, ooops, I mean pastor.
Thats the whole problem..the first thing, todays church needs..is to bring in scholars.who know exactly what the 1st century church did.but the unfortunate fact is ..this hyper laodecian church..will never find its way back..only maybe before the end,,.a small remnent ..might rise up..but for now ..its holidays,,pagentry and entertainment so dont forget, you all next year, on super bowl sunday..lets skip church..invite , all our buddies over. and party all day..its one heck of a better show..than they have at church
This is certainly the Laodicean era of church history, but true Christians do not have to be part of it. I think that we have had too much reverence for those who are highly educated but not necessarily spiritual. We need to study and apply the Bible ourselves. Because of that, I challenge you not to rely on so-called scholars to understand how the early church functioned. You have the New Testament, and the Holy Spirit will make it clear.
question: the scripture admonishes us not to forsake the assembling of your selves but does that make a statement about you must be a member of one particular church? The only thing I will agree on is the bible instructs to expel the greedy and immoral. However, I do wonder how many so called pastors and church officials are greedy ?
St. Paul told the people he wrote to do what he and the other leaders had told them to do. There was to be no private interpretation of Scripture, no one going off to start something new without being supervised. This is a bit different from today, isn’t it? In America you can start a church with yourself as the leader and be responsible to no one. If you are a good speaker and know how to schmooze folks, there is almost no limit to what you can do. People that want a first century church should get a copy of The Shape of the Liturgy by Dom Gregory Dix and read at least the first three chapters. If you like the 20th century American version of things, you won’t like what you read in Dix’s book. You’ll have to have the Eucharist like they did from the beginning, you’ll have to have priests and deacons, you’ll have to have a bishop and you’ll have to have the sacraments we Eastern Orthodox and other ancient churches have. You Protestants want the original? You wouldn’t recognize it, given what’s happened since the 1500’s. There are scholars out there who agree with me – they’re just not from your tribe.
“Dick told me (MacArthur) would just fire whoever voted no and have a revote. Mac wanted it and that was it”.
Is this credible?
Sadly, yes. I heard Pastor MacArthur tell a story where he does that very thing. Essentially, “You don;t question me in front of others.”
Oh but Maccarthur is quick to call out false teachers.but if they are from his own party he is silent,and I have not heard a peep out of Justin Peters on Steve Lawson, either, and he is quick to judge other teachers.
Hi Laurel,
In fairness to Justin Peters: https://x.com/JustinPetersMin/status/1838214714586738733
I never believed in this concept of church membership. Nothing in the Bible about that. Church attendance and worship is not the same as church membership. The church is the body of Christ (those of us that have been saved and are secure in our salvation in Christ). Allowing any church to humiliate and berate people that have made mistakes is horrid to me. How many of these “leaders” and board members and elders have sin in their closets……answer is all of them.
That being said, maybe John Mac can have Lawson come to Grace Church and they can perp-walk him in front of the congregation? My guess is John Mac wouldn’t allow that because Lawson is a friend of over 25 years. Church perp-walks are for the little people.
Lawson will probably never preach again, and definitley not write a theological book. Hopefully, he invested well because his career is over. This sounds like discipline to me. I am always amazed at ferocity of the Chrisitan backlash when a leader “falls from grace”. It is kind of scary. I have seen more grace offerd among the lost. Woman should keep silent in church