Last May, Vicki Blue discovered through her husband that the famed apologist, Ravi Zacharias, had died.
“I’m glad,” Blue recalls saying. “Now he can’t hurt anyone anymore.”
Blue is one of several victims who spoke anonymously to Christianity Today (CT) for an article last fall exposing Zacharias’ sexual abuse and harassment of massage therapists at spas he co-owned. In an exclusive interview with The Roys Report, Blue for the first time revealed her identity for publication and shared her experience with Zacharias in detail in hopes of helping other abuse victims.
Blue was not merely a massage therapist at one of Zacharias’ spas. She was co-owner with Zacharias and his friend, Anurag Sharma, of Zacharias’ first spa, Touch of Eden, from 2004—2007.
According to Blue, Zacharias exploited his position as her spiritual mentor to sexually abuse both Blue and other therapists at the spa, including Blue’s daughter, Becca.
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For more than a decade, Blue kept silent about what happened. She said when she left the spa in 2007, Zacharias threatened to “ruin” her and Becca if they ever told anyone about the abuse.
“Ravi kept talking about an anonymous donor that he could get limitless money from,” Blue said. “He said, ‘I can keep it going and make your life miserable until you die.’”
Blue said she also was emotionally fragile at the time. And several years later, when her daughter, Becca, died suddenly from virus in the heart, Blue said she attempted suicide twice.
Yet after Zacharias’ death, Blue made a discovery that prompted her to break her silence. She learned that Zacharias had groomed and sexually exploited a Canadian woman, Lori Anne Thompson. And for Blue, that was the last straw.
“I looked on the internet after my husband mentioned Ravi’s death,” Blue told me, explaining that she hadn’t followed news about Zacharias for 10 years. She then discovered raviwatch.com—the website of Steve Baughman, author of Cover-Up in the Kingdom—and read about the 2017 sexting scandal involving Thompson.
Blue said after reading about Thompson, she “felt guilty for not crying out to the world about (Zacharias’) deviant appetite.” So, she emailed Baughman, who eventually connected Blue with a reporter. This led to CT’s article in September and an investigation by Miller & Martin, revealing the extent of Zacharias’ abuse, which spanned decades.
“When the first (Miller & Martin) report came out, I cried for three days,” Blue told me. “I felt so bad. All those ladies and maybe girls. I figured there were hundreds.”
Blue said she felt “totally broken” by the report. But she said she also saw God’s providence in bringing everything to light. She noted that the day before she found Steve Baughman’s website, she had prayed to God, asking Him to do something about Zacharias and his victims.
“God is doing this,” she said. “Everyone’s thinking this is being done by me, or by other women, or by reporters, or by whatever, but it’s not. It’s God.”
“The Closest Person to God Other Than Jesus”
Blue said she first met Zacharias in 2000 when he began coming to her for massage therapy at a spa she co-owned, called Salon Sedona. He continued as a client when she left Salon Sedona and opened a new salon, called Victoria’s Spa.
Blue said she would talk with Zacharias about her many spiritual questions. “I was a Christian looking for answers,” Blue said, explaining how she was abused as a child and struggling to “put things together.”
She said Zacharias helped her immensely with her spiritual confusion and she considered him “the closest person to God other than Jesus.”
But then, Zacharias began to cross emotional and sexual boundaries.
Blue said Zacharias repeatedly told her he was dissatisfied with his marriage, saying it was “all business,” and describing his wife as a “taskmaster” who “kept adding more and more and more lectures.”
Yet Zacharias claimed Blue was “his soulmate” and said he “couldn’t survive without (her),” Blue said. She added that Zacharias would call her every day. And when he’d come home from trips, he’d come to her spa before he’d even go home.
One time when Blue was massaging Zacharias, she says he reached around her waist and pulled her down to kiss him. Blue said she didn’t stop him.
However, during another massage, Blue said Zacharias reached up her leg to her groin.
“My heart sank at that point because I realized what he was doing,” Blue said. She said she responded by pulling his hand away and saying no. But the sexual advances didn’t stop.
Blue said Zacharias would turn over during therapy sessions and beg her to come close. She said Zacharias exposed himself and masturbated in front of her 50 to 100 times.
Blue said Zacharias twice asked her to have sex with him, but both times she refused because Zacharias was married. She said Zacharias also asked her for pictures of herself, and she sent him one fully clothed with Becca in the background “to make a statement.”
At the time, Blue said she believed Zacharias behaved the way he did because he was in love with her. “He talked like I was the most precious person on earth,” she said.
Blue added that Zacharias would also argue that he “needed” a sexual outlet. “He would say, ‘It’s my reward. It’s part of my therapy, my relaxation,’” Blue said.
Blue now views what Zacharias did as abuse. But back then, she says she was vulnerable and confused, adding, “It’s hard to explain. When someone gives you spiritual advice and you know everything he says about God is true, yet he’s also doing these things to you—it took years of therapy to realize I didn’t do anything wrong.”
At the end of 2003, Blue said Zacharias insisted that she start a spa with him and Anurag Sharma. She said she was doing fine financially at the time, but Zacharias kept pushing her into the business, claiming she’d make more money, so she agreed.
To come up with the initial $40,000 investment, Blue sold her townhome and also used an inheritance she’d received from her grandmother. Blue said Zacharias and Sharma also invested an initial $40,000 each.
Blue’s testimony matches what Sharma told me in an interview several months ago, though Sharma said he thought the initial investment was around $50,000. Sharma said he was on “Cloud 9” when Zacharias invited him to be a business partner.
“(Sharma) worshipped Ravi . . . as much as he worshipped God,” Blue said. She added that Sharma was like a “bodyguard,” protecting Zacharias.
As a result, Blue said Zacharias called all the shots in the business, like the location for the spa—a strip mall in Alpharetta, Georgia. Blue said the location “was a disaster” because there was construction in front of building for the entire three years she was in the business. But the building was close to Zacharias’ home, so he reportedly insisted on it.
Over the three years she co-owned Touch of Eden, Blue said she invested a total of $68,000, which she lost entirely. Blue said she also gave back half her salary during the final year of the business to keep pace with the investments Sharma and Zacharias were making.
More Abuse Revealed
In 2007, Blue’s daughter, Becca, who was a therapist at Touch of Eden, told her mother that Zacharias had molested her. Blue said she then talked to six other therapists who said Zacharias had either molested, or “done something perverted,” to each one of them.
It was a devastating and eye-opening moment.
“I realized then how much I had been used and manipulated,” Blue said.
Blue said she also realized that what Zacharias was doing was “so illegal,” and she immediately wanted out of Touch of Eden.
Yet she said she was carrying tens of thousands of dollars of business debt on her credit cards and realized she had to be very careful how she maneuvered out of the business.
She added that simultaneously, Zacharias and Sharma were urging her to convert Touch of Eden into a spa specializing in Ayurveda, an ancient Indian medicine system with Hindu roots. Blue said she didn’t want any part of it.
“To me, (Touch of Eden) was a Christian place,” Blue said. “I told them, ‘No, that’s with all the chakras and Hindu religion. I can’t do that here . . . Absolutely not.’”
Blue said Zacharias and Sharma also wanted her to bring in women from Asia to train and work under licensed therapists at Touch of Eden. This especially scared her.
Over the next several months, Blue said she was able to extricate herself from the business and get Sharma and Zacharias to pay off the credit cards. Sharma and Zacharias then launched an Ayurvedic spa, called Jivan Wellness, and Blue, who said she was penniless, went to work elsewhere.
However, before leaving, Blue said she confronted Zacharias about the abuse and urged him to confess to his sin to his “brothers and sisters” at Ravi Zacharias International Ministries (RZIM) and get help. She said Zacharias refused.
About a year later, Blue said one of the former aestheticians at Touch of Eden approached her about suing Zacharias. Blue said she told the aesthetician that she would testify on the aesthetician’s behalf but was afraid to sue Zacharias because of the threats he had made to destroy her. Blue said the aesthetician never filed a lawsuit.
In 2011, Blue’s daughter Becca died. And Blue said Zacharias contacted her and asked if she would massage him in his home. Blue said she was in “total agony and totally lost” at the time, so she conceded, wanting to talk with Zacharias about Becca’s death.
Once again, Zacharias crossed sexual boundaries. And once again, Blue confronted him, except this time, she named some of the women who had accused Zacharias of molesting them.
Blue said Zacharias “lost it” and began yelling about how she was betraying him and the ministry.
Blue said she quickly tried to pacify Zacharias, so he wouldn’t hurt her. “I knew if I wasn’t careful, it would be bad for me,” she added.
That was the last time Blue said she ever saw Zacharias.
Hope for Healing
Blue readily admits that the past 11 months have been an emotional roller-coaster.
When the allegations of abuse from her and other spa workers first became public, RZIM denied the victims’ claims, stating that the allegations “do not in any way comport with the man we knew for decades.”
Three months later, the ministry reversed its stance and said it found the women’s claims credible. And in February, when the Miller & Martin report released, RZIM apologized to the victims, stating that the ministry’s trust in Zacharias was “severely misplaced.”
Blue says she’s skeptical of claims that no one at RZIM knew about the abuse but said she doesn’t have first-hand knowledge one way or the other. She said she’s just glad the truth finally came to light.
“God is cleaning up this entire mess,” Blue said, adding that she hopes that by coming forward, she’ll encourage other victims.
“I felt like if I told anyone . . . I’d be laughed at,” she said. “It’s important to victims to know they’re not alone. They need to know they can get help.”
Blue added that seeing the truth finally come to light has been incredibly “faith building” and “healing” for her.
“That’s the best thing that’s come out of this for me,” she said. “I deeply needed that in my personal life.”
Email Vicki Blue Sent to Steve Baughman in May 2020:Documents Provided by Vicki Blue:
125 thoughts on “Spa Co-Owner & Victim of Ravi Zacharias Speaks: He Threatened to “Ruin” Me”
In one of your attached documents, the email addresses are unredacted.
Yes. Those emails have long since been retired.
My heart hurts for you, but what a brave, incredibly vulnerable, and absolutely amazing thing you’ve done. You have freed so many.
I wonder if Ravi started his ministry as a deceiver or he was once a person trying to do Gods work and a physical injury changed him into this monster.
It appears that Ravi was a deceiver from the beginning. He was *not* a strong apologist. You can read John Stackhouse’s critique of Ravi’s work as an apologist here: https://www.johnstackhouse.com/ravi-zacharias-as-exemplary-apologist-a-demurral/
That was an excellent link, thanks!
He never believed in God in the first place he was Hindu priest and find a way deceive many with his knowledge in Christianity but he himself does not know the Savior
Please you shouldn’t be surprised
I think he was always a fraud, deceiver, and monster from the beginning. Read about his complicity in an illegal abortion in Canada in the early 1970s. I suspect Christianity was an angle for him to gain power, prestige, and influence. He is a classic sociopath and narcissist. Once he knew about Vicki’s past history of being sexually abused, that made it easier for a sociopath like Ravi work.
His deceptive practices went back early on his ministry, such as his role in urging his brother Ramesh to coerce Ramesh’s girlfriend Shirley to have an abortion in the 1970s and Ravi’s denial to Shirley in 1999 of any such involvement (https://julieroys.com/podcast/ravi-zacharias-pressured-me-to-get-an-abortion). In addition, Steve Baughman pieced together compelling evidence that Ravi fabricated either in entirety or in core details, his heavily promoted conversion story (https://spiritualsoundingboard.com/2020/03/31/the-ravi-zacharias-legacy-fans-falsehoods-and-yet-another-troubling-question-by-steve-baughman/, https://twitter.com/RaviScam/status/
1349806061314719744/retweets). Yet many people familiar with Ravi’s books and talks, including colleagues and ministry partners who worked with him for decades, would find it nearly impossible to even imagine that Ravi didn’t wholeheartedly believe in the Christian message. I think the most plausible explanation is the one suggested by Baughman: Ravi had a genuine Christian faith, but he was a “pathological narcissist”, thinking he was so special, God would make an exception for his sins. Suppose we imagine for a moment that Ravi didn’t have a genuine Christian faith. What options are we then left with? We would have to imagine that a man famed for his eloquent critique of moral nihilism and atheism, in fact believes in the very worldviews he passionately attacked. It is surely easier to imagine there are Christian hypocrites who genuinely believed in the Christian message, yet failed to practise what they preached and did the very opposite. The paradoxical but real fact about human nature is someone can preach passionately about truth, love, forgiveness and marital faithfulness, and believed these at a cognitive level, yet in private practise deception, victimisation, intimidation and licentiousness. Humans are capable of doing wonderful things to some people, while at the same time, inflicting deplorable harms to others.
Before the revelations of the past several months came to light, it was easy to get carried away eulogising Ravi’s achievements and character. Now, there is an equally strong impetus to think of Ravi as the devil incarnate. Up till the immediate aftermath of his memorial service, much of the evangelical world saw Ravi as a Christ-like saintly character. Now many view him as a wolf in sheep’s clothing, who was a deceiver from the very beginning. I think Christians need to avoid viewing people and the world in black and white terms.
I find it striking that two of Ravi’s children, Naomi and Nathan, remained resolute that Ravi was a loving father (https://defendingravi.wordpress.com/26-2/; https://www.instagram.com/p/CM4rLrsn29L/, “My dad kneeled beside me & whispered there was nothing I could ever do to make him love me less. He gave me an unceasing love.”). Some things in life cannot be faked, one of them is raising children to adulthood, instilling in them a conviction of parental love.
There is video footage of Hitler playing with his little niece and having a big smile on his face.
I 100% agree with you and 100% disagree with Hon Wai Lai who even now is hellbent on legitimizing one of the lowest subhumans who has ever lived.
Interpreting your words literally, I would have to conclude that by 100% disagreement with my comments, you disagree with my assessment that Ravi’s deceptiveness went back early on in his ministry, that he is a pathological narcissist, that there are Christian hypocrites, that humans are capable of doing wonderful things to some people while inflicting deplorable harms to others. I don’t think this is what you intend to convey. I think you mean that you disagree with my concluding remarks that someone like Ravi (now an epitome of a serial sexual predator) can be a loving father. Here, we may have to agree to disagree. The best judges of whether someone was a loving father, are his adult children, certainly not people who never met the man. In no way my remarks should be interpreted as legitimizing Ravi’s depraved acts. Before the scandal became public, RZIM staff and ministry partners refused to countenance the possibility Ravi could be guilty of sexual abuse, because of the good things he did and the virtues he displayed (according to Prof. John Stackhouse writing in May 2020, “By several accounts of mutual friends, Ravi Zacharias was commendably capable of generosity, patience, gentleness, and encouragement, and he early on demonstrated a gift for evangelism. I have no reason to doubt these commendations and I’m glad to hear them.” https://www.johnstackhouse.com/ravi-zacharias-as-exemplary-apologist-a-demurral/). In light of the posthumous revelations, the evangelical community is now doing the inverse: Ravi could not possibly have been a loving father, nor capable of any goodness in his public life, because of his sexual depravity.
Vance: yes, it is conceivable a genocidal murderer could have been a devoted uncle (I cannot comment on whether Hitler was actually one), just as large swathes of the German populace including Christian bishops during the Third Reich were complicit in the Holocaust while behaving as exemplar citizens.
Hon Wai Lai is also discounting how other cultures behave. It is very common in India culture for family to stick together through thick and thin when attacked from without. Privately there may be other things going on but that rarely gets out in the public domain. The Indian family culture has very strong loyality to each other which can be good and bad. An Indian’s identity is tied up in that family. Once a person is out they have a loss of identity which can result in a personal crisis. Loving someone no matter what is a language that indicates that RZ instilled that in his children. RZ also expected that which is not healthy in my opinion. The RZ family is inter-twined on many levels that most American families are not. If RZ children realize that they were just a front for their father imagine how that will affect their own idendity. I sincerely hope the mother is guiding her children into some kind of professional therapy so they don’t have a complete melt down at some point. That would be the most loving thing to do in my opinion. If the mother is the taskmaster that RZ claimed she was I am afraid she will continue to cover it all up and demand her children go along with the facade. It is very sad.
I have a feeeling that we will see more “family businesses” like RZIM hit the brick wall. It seems like many things will be exposed and the Christian community needs to brace itself. We need to learn our lessons from it all. I hate reading about all this but do appreciate brave jounalists that bring it forward.
Hon Wai Lai,
“I think you mean that you disagree with my concluding remarks that someone like Ravi (now an epitome of a serial sexual predator) can be a loving father.”
I really couldn’t care less if RZ was a “loving father”. It’s irrelevant. As Vance pointed out Hitler WAS (you can dance around it all you want–I will go on the evidence we have, thank you very much) a doting uncle who genuinely loved his niece. I will go further about the Fuhrer. He loved Eva Braun. He was an early animal-rights activist who was against eating meat. Before the war he appeared to show genuine concern for the Gentile, “racially pure”/non-Slavic males of the German working class. So freaking what???
If the intention of your original message was “Ravi couldn’t have been all bad because he had a genuine human side too”, please know, you are mistaken.
She is in no way “legitimizing.” She is grappling with the polarity of what Ravi was and presented. Many people are grappling and processing with this horrible disparity. Your comment was extremely arrogant and slightly derogatory. Do better please.
Hey ; Vance – read before reply is a good rule of thumb. No need for artificial squabbles.
I believe this is the church in Delhi, India that RZ attended and grew up in. You can look at what RZ was exposed to in Christian teaching. Any Indians here can correct me if wrong. It is not uncommon for Indians to say they are “Christian” merely because their parents are or they attend church. These are called nominal Christians in India. They may have a head knowledge but no conversion has taken place. It could be RZ went to church on Sunday and attended a Hindu school during the week. Maybe someone in India can explain that.
It is not uncommon for Indians, Nepalis or Pakistanis to stand in a pulpit and have 20 verses of the Bible memorized in a sermon then walk off to have lunch with their mistresses. Many in the congregation know it but the Pastor is offering the folks in the pew incentives to keep their mouths shut. Pastors will give their children free education which is priceless to someone that can’t afford a good school. That child will get a better job and thus be able to support the parents in their old age. They have no safety net in third world countries. Pastors could give housing or some other perk to congregations. Many Pastors will pay other Pastors salaries and then claim they planted that church to Westerners which will get more Western money. Many Indian pastors will take Western money and invest in a business. They put the family on a trust which is controlled by the family for generations and is very hard to get details about. Societies in India are much more open and transparent. The heads of it rotate on and off. In a trust the family will own and operate properties and businesses for generations. Transparency is almost nil unless there is a court case in India. Keep in mind that this is a way to survive in their culture. They think this is being smart not sinful.
I find it amazing that RZ was in such high ranks as Mike Pence. How did that happen??
There’s also a (rather unholy) “Christian”/Islamic alliance in India. Some of this is understandable–there is a common threat from Hindu ultranationalists and radicals, but to me, if you are so willing to compromise your faith that you basically wholeheartedly accept a false religion, it calls into question how real that faith ever was. Also, the Hindu nationalists (not good people–but even the bad guys are worth taking the effort to understand) probably have a point, here and there, about corrupt churches bribing poor Hindus of the Dalit caste to convert. I don’t know nearly enough about the Indian church as I should but the bit that I do, indicates that it is full of rot.
Gullible christians from outside India are too lax in going along with any element that may play on the “exotic oriental”. (I noticed – 10 years ago – in two minutes in a shop things like Stackhouse points out, but I didn’t speak out.) The protestant missions to India were devoid of Holy Spirit belief all along, as well as too colonial, and merged into a dualistic and “non-dualistic” (monopolar version of same) disembodied dharma-karma Calvinism. Indian protestants just like Hindus, had found Sanskrit learning as a whole wrongfully undermined in two major ways. Not only RZ but for at least 150 years before him, they were not being equipped to help each other in perseverance. I think Dalits are more realistic than those of caste about their alleged “contentment” with not being of caste, but without the gift of wisdom and tact and Holy Spirit (who depends on the Ascension), our commendation of them isn’t genuine because also those of caste were bitterly wronged by the colonials (read Ferdinand Mount). The stoppage of prayer among “western” protestants has undermined chistians in all countries. Colonialists who preached half a gospel training up locals to preach half a gospel aren’t generous. The values we are talking about are exactly the ones that made Britain spend 100 years destroying Russia. This is not ad hominem, in essence about the Z. family letting us down. Colonial Calvinists who don’t teach truth and don’t pray are the servants who beat and starved their fellows while master was away. That isn’t Vicki’s attitude and I didn’t think it was mine (I was trying not to be Calvinist, no matter how bossy they were), but some of us, especially seniors, had some share in the neglect: when some lack, all lack.
Hi!. A Christian from India here. It is extremely heartbreaking to hear you say that you would trust these news reports about Christians giving bribes to convert members of the Dalit community. Let me tell you something. It is genuinely difficult here to share the good news about Jesus Christ. This innuendo about offering bribes for conversion has been doing rounds since the Britishers left the country in 1947. Also, we are called anti – nationals for believing in the God of the west (apparently!.) and because we are not willing to follow Hindu culture and practices. So, please stop dragging us through this mud. If you want to accuse Ravi, please do so without including the Indian Christian community. You guys sit in western nations and have the liberty to go to church without any worries and complain about insignificant stuff all day long. Here, in India, so many preachers and missionaries are being persecuted miserably and their names tarnished. It is very unfortunate that you choose to side with the oppressors. Please do not talk rubbish about Indian Christians and churches without knowing nothing about them. It is not right to insult us simply because Ravi who was Indian did something that is not right.
“If you want to accuse Ravi”
Everything else you said has to be chucked out the window in light of that statement. Nobody is “accusing” Ravi. We have incontrovertible proof from all sources that he was a monster, predator, and pedophile. If you defend him you have zero credibility on any issue.
I did not say the Hindu Nationalists are right and I even *verbatim* wrote that they are not good people… did you miss that? At the same time, where there is lots and lots of smoke there is usually at least some fire. I find it as hard to believe the Indian church is healthy and functioning any more than the American church is. Do you deny what I wrote about the Christian-Muslim alliance in India, for instance?
There is no such thing as a Christian – Muslim alliance. That is just propaganda by politicians who go around saying that India must not be infiltrated by foreigners and their ideologies. If you know something about India’s history, you will figure out that the India was invaded by the British and prior to that by Islamic dynasties. Like I said, Christians and Muslims are considered anti – nationals because we do not follow Hindu culture and that irks them. So, the only thing that is common among us is that we are not wanted. Please stop comparing the problems faced by the American churches with that of ours. And like I said, do not drag Indian Christians into this RZIM scandal. Ravi only spent his childhood here. He was largely influenced by the western church and western culture.
Blessings to you!
I hear you. I see you.
When you said, “You guys sit in western nations and have the liberty to go to church without any worries and complain about insignificant stuff all day long.”, you were absolutely accurate. We have so many freedoms and opportunities here, that unfortunately it often makes us ungrateful & entitled. Many of us are completely ignorant of what people of other countries endure. Myself included. Though, I am trying to educate myself. We choose to go, or not go, to the church of our choosing. And while there is still racial divide and gender discrimination, we don’t experience anything like the caste system and unfortunate treatment of the Dalit people. Most of us here also can’t comprehend true religious persecution. A friend who taught English for several years in Asia spoke of the necessity of VPNs and secret Bible studies in basements. And while trying to walk in faith, not fear, there were legitimate concerns of being discovered…and what would happen if they were.
I’m not saying that nobody in the west has experienced hardship. We absolutely have. In our church, I help counsel and disciple others, and walk with them on their journey to finding Freedom in Jesus Christ. So I’ve heard many individuals’ stories and know what they must overcome. All I mean to say is – that as a whole, we have it pretty good. Which will sometimes make people soft, insensitive, and ungrateful. Then molehills start becoming like mountains to us. We begin to pick everything apart, finding fault in things, people, or situations that are, like you said, insignificant. Maybe you’ve heard of “cancel culture”?
My friends who have gone as missionaries to other countries come back changed. Grateful. Thankful. More understanding. A heart of flesh. Unfortunately, we often have to witness something firsthand, to physically see the hardships of other peoples, in order to see the multitude of blessings in our own lives.
I actually came to this page to educate myself on this heartbreaking situation of Ravi Zacharias. But I am thankful I read your post. I am also thankful that Our God is such a good, good Father & has forgiven me of the wrongs I’ve done and my sins against Him – past, present, and future! I recognize how fortunate I am that my sins are not on display for all the world to see. Thankfully, I don’t have to decide or make judgement on this situation. What I AM called to do is love and pray for everyone involved.
May God bless you!
Thanks for coming forward, Vicki Blue. Better late than never. Take comfort in the fact that Ravi deceived major religious leaders who have not yet acknowledged that they swallowed his bologna hook, line, and sinker, trailer, boat, and highway.
Southeastern Baptist theological seminary
Do you seriously think they all were deceived? You don’t think ANY of them looked and still choose to look the other way?
Brian, I think it was like you scratch my back and I will scratch yours. It is called a negative contract. I know dirt on you and you know dirt on me so that keeps both our mouths shut. I find it weird that so many Christians leaders say they didn’t know RZ in one breath and then in the other they detail how they had meals with him and his whole family. They seem to cover all their bases legally.
You nailed it. Of course they were in bed with RZ because it was profitable for them to do so and of course they knew everything he was doing and of course they are tares just as much as he did. And, of course if RZ was still alive, not a single one of them would be pretending to denounce him now. I don’t think they are all international serial rapists but I’m sure that at the very least most of them have unsavory personal lives. We need Julie to do more exposing of the Falwell family mafia, the MacArthurs (what we know about both of those is plenty bad but I am sure there is much more), John Stumbo, SBC President Greear, and many, many more.
Amazing, this man so called a follower of the Lord Jesus , gave in to the “lusts of the flesh” rather than seek things of the Spirit . He was a brilliant deceiver, a Hypocrite who sadly ruined many women’s lives . Some how , many through his preaching came to faith in the Lord Jesus
What a mystery?
No wonder men like Steve Baughman are Professing Atheists.
This man ( Steve Baughman) shows more love and tolerance than many , like Ravi and the organisation he left behind .
Allan Jenkins. ( U K )
In reality, Allan – to lay the blame for this being a reason or the reason for Steve Baughman to be a professing atheist actually misses the part of his choice to simply reject the claims of Jesus Himself. That is actually Steve’s sin issue and heart issue at work. I just had to say that because I, as a survivor of sexual abuse and who was denied help from the church when I went forward at 14 years old, could “blame” the church and reject Jesus if I wanted to also. But the difference here is that I have chosen to take personal responsibility for my sin and look to Jesus and accept what He has done for me. If a simple excuse by the way of blaming someone for not believing is the way to atheism, then why believe at all. That’s ridiculous. An atheist chooses to blame people in the church or whatever, instead of looking to the perfect one in Jesus and receiving Him for who He says he is. I would not agree with you about Steve showing more love and tolerance than many. I’d say at the root of atheism is a complete hatred of God and love comes from God. Gotta learn to separate your feelings there, Allan :)
It’s much easier to make an ad hominem attack on the messenger (Baughman) than face the fact that the idol you worshiped was a monster, eh?
Brian, Maybe some therapy is in order? Spew there!
Stacy, even GOD is an atheist because He doesn’t believe most of the twaddle that is talked about Him.
CJ, then we export this twaddle to other countries so they can dupilcate this twaddle instead of God’s Word. Boggles the mind that we think we are doing a great job evangelizing the world. (Just the record I am not saying there aren’t great works of God out there. I just don’t think it is the majority although it should be considering how God has blessed us.)
“Some how , many through his preaching came to faith in the Lord Jesus”
Now you’re just aping RZIM propaganda. Unless you can provide evidence for this that doesn’t come from RZIM itself, please, just stop while you’re ahead.
Incredible courage. Incredible.
Thank you. You also.
Hi Vicki Blue,
I remember you mentioning in an early email that you were also impacted by Ravi. You did not elaborate at all and I can see why.I am glad you were able to speak your story and it took courage and pushing forward despite the pain. I am sorry about your daughter. I have an adult daughter and I can only imagine…
Thank You and I will pray for you as well.
I think it is you that has the incredible courage. When I first heard about what you had to say about R a few years ago I remember this strong feeling that it was true. I couldn’t shake it. I believed you. It was confirmed and I’m so thankful that you spoke up and opened this door. I’m equally pleased he is not alive to hurt anyone again. I hope your road to healing is on course. Praying for you. Maria
Good to hear from you. I have prayed for your family and I hope that you are seeing some “sunshine” in your life.
In my case Steve consistently showed me love & tolerance. He’s been fair, nice and caring. I’ve gotten to know him a little and I hope he is my friend. I can’t speak for him about his beliefs. I know I never heard him say he hated God, only that after much consideration he knew he couldn’t say he believed. His studies indicate he’s still interested. I still trust in the Sovereign Lord and have faith that Christ can save and Steve will know Him.
I hope Steve remembers me as a follower of Christ.
I have no doubt that Steve will remember you forever.
I have a slightly different take on Steve’s atheism. He made a profession of faith as a youngster. Along life’s way, he encountered many perfectly valid questions. Trying to get answers to them is what led him to Ravi in the first place. He was looking for a way to validate the faith of his childhood. Hard-core atheists don’t do that sort of thing. He not only had questions about Christianity but questions about atheism. When he encountered Ravi in search of answers about the book of Daniel by googling “Christian apologists,” he thought for a moments that Ravi had answered his question but then encountered his false credentials. I still expect to see Steve on the other side. I am not as sure about Ravi who had more in common with Rasputin than the Redeemer.
I think the above is basically correct; however, if Steve sees it, he can correct me or nuance my summary.
FYI, I sent Franklin Graham a memo about Ravi and a copy of Steve’s book about Ravi in January 2019. Franklin had over a year to get Ravi’s attention. If he tried and gave him a free pass like so many prominent evangelicals (Mac Brunson, Steve Gaines, Al Mohler, John Stumbo, et al.), Franklin is not always a safe guide to the sheep.
As for all of Ravi’s wonderful speeches and wisdom, I came to the conclusion almost a year before I knew of his affair with Lori that I would accept nothing from Ravi’s lips without secondary or even tertiary confirmation. He would not have fared well in the history class I used to teach —though in the other hand he might have passed but simply twisted the facts to suit his purposes.
As I said above, you were hardly alone in being duped by this seven-headed dragon in wolf’s clothing. As for his being a good father, good fathers love their wives and mothers of their children. Who knows, perhaps mating with many women is a form of loving your wife, a form that Paul overlooked. But I do grant that he did not eat his children.
Ah, but I digress and understate. All I meant to do here is to assert my belief that the one who saved him as a youngster still has him in his hands. Atheism comes and goes. Big woof. Steve will never escape the doctrine of a Designer. He might not believe in “God” but he cannot help believing in a Designer. No one can. Not Nietzsche, not nobody. Ah, but I digress again . . .
Southeastern Baptist Seminary
From my understanding, Steve found out that what Ravi stated concerning the dating of Daniel is a hotly contested issue. Ravi could have easily stated that there were scholars who believed in a later dating of Daniel. There is internal evidence, as well as the nature of apocalyptic language that points nicely to a latter date, but that is not the point. Intellectual honesty and humility demands that “apologists” speak correctly. This episode goes to show that apologists can severely undermine their ministry if they “exaggerate” the evidence. (or credentials) What gets me is how often Evangelicals misrepresent Scripture because they never understood, studied, or payed attention in Literature class. But now, I digress….
Thanks, Vance. Good thoughts.
Actually Steve is not an atheist but an agnostic. The reason I say this is because an atheist is one who does not believe that there is a God but has no proof for his belief. If one were to ask him what % of all the knowledge in the world he has he would admit to less than .1% or less – almost nothing. So how can anyone who knows almost nothing say with 100% certainty that there is no God?
Steve is patient with people. When he was revealing on his Youtube channel what he found out about Ravi during his investigations some would either attack him because he was an atheist or they went completely off topic and tried to preach to him, or quote Scripture. Lets just say that his responses were more gracious than mine would have been. I only have had a few emails with him, but I live in the area which he lives and I have visited the Graduate Theological Union where he occasionally studies. It is a consortium of various denominations, top schools with a heavy dose of liberal theology. Beautiful buildings.
I also asked him if he would do an updated version of his book, but he demurred. Basically, he completed his mission. I wish him the best.
I honestly don’t care whether Baughman “hates God” or not, ONLY whether he speaks the truth. Once we get over all our little idols it becomes pretty obvious that only the truth matters.
Vicki, I don’t know you, but I wanted to let you know you that (a) my heart breaks for you, and (b) you are a hero.
That evil, diabolical predator molested you AND your daughter. He went to great lengths to silence you. And when she died and you wanted help, all he wanted was sex.
By doing what you did, you saved the lives of, and gave hope to, many victims of Ravi Zacharias.
Yes, many of us, just looking at objective facts–his falsification of his credentials and vitae, the suicide email, the Image Repair in his public statement of his settlement with Lori Anne, and Julie Anne’s meticulous work on the Shirley Steward case–had already figured out that Ravi was very bad news. Ravi himself had convinced us that Lori Anne–and Shirley Steward–were telling the truth. His own personal statements gave him away.
But if you hadn’t contacted Steve, that entire corrupt cabal that is RZIM would continue to live with a big evangelical platform, all while his victims carried the bag in silence with no one believing them.
When the smoke clears, Ravi Zacharias may be known as the worst sexual predator in the history of Christianity. And if that is the case, he will have earned that. That’s on him.
Because of what you did, his victims have received a great deal of vindication. And the Church knows the truth about Ravi Zacharias, a truth that is unavoidable, a truth that speaks much to the rot and corruption among an evangelical leadership cabal that loves money and prestige, much the way that the religious leaders of Jesus’ day did.
We remember Ravi the way we remember Haman.
Thank you, Lori Anne.
Thank you, Shirley.
Thank you, Vicki.
The flags were waving for years about this dirty pig’s behaviour. Those who knew are equally complicit and now that their cash cow is dead, should pay the full price.
A Christian owning a spa and getting massages from young women!
Zacharias was no Christian just a wolf in sheep’s clothing; he even sought closer links with the Mormons!
100%. As far as I am concerned Stumbo, etc. are all spawned of the same snakepit as RZ himself. Without a cataclysmic level of repentance they will face the same eternal fate and I’d be the liar if I said I’d be lacking in delight at that.
Vicki, bless you for sharing your story which no doubt has helped many others. I feel saddened that you had to go through all this for so many years. Your horrific experience God is now using for good. Thanks for allowing yourself to be vulnerable in order to bring healing to the lives of others. You will be rewarded for this kind of sacrifice.
You are welcome.
And now….RZIM reimburses Vicki Blue for the years of therapy she had to pursue to get healing, right? Aaanndd….they pay for all therapy going forward, plus all else they need to pay her for.
You have great spiritual discernment Vicki Blue – “God is indeed cleaning up this entire mess”
God’s peace and love upon all the victims of abuse.
Vicki, while we don’t know each other, I must admit that my heart is bursting with pride and admiration for your bravery in coming forward. Like any cult-like situation there is hesitancy in speaking truth. I know. God put people (like Steve and Julie) and knowledge in your path to lead you through. To bring healing for yourself and supportive evidence to victims like Lori Anne. To expose the evil that was RZ. I feel a certain amount of vicarious vindication as well. Thank you so very much! I grieve with you for the loss of your child. She is beautiful! We can both look forward to a glorious reunion with our children some day. God bless you❤️
Thank you Shirley.
Thanks for sharing your story Vicki. I am sure it was a very difficult thing to do.
I would echo your words about Steve Baughman. I found him to be a very honest, kind man who values truth.
Vicki, thank you for your courage! I’m impressed and encouraged by you! This article was hard to read and a such a bewildering tragedy! May God give you healing! You are giving hope and courage to others!
Thank you Vicky for revealing everything that had happened. I do want to remind my brothers and sisters that what had been done by Ravi as evil as it was, is not the ground for us to judge. Let the Lord be the judge of it because frankly you and I are no better than Ravi. Deep in our hearts, we know the sinners that we are. What we can learn is to be watchful of our lives and heed the prompting of the Holy Spirit. Not sure if God takes it kindly for us to foul mouth even our fallen comrade while our hearts is no better than him except for His sustaining grace. God is the judge of his eternal destiny. God also knows whether Ravi was a liar all his life or not. Let God be God, we are all just His servants.
Brian P’s “delight” (1.03 a.m) doesn’t persuade me; neither does your trope, Miekhie, about us all being as bad, which has been misused (as I witnessed) (though I will say God operates surprising sliding scales); otherwise I agree. The so-called “reformed” notion titled “once saved”, glossing over help for perseverance, has never had mileage.
YFC and his parents’ bad Holy Spiritless denominations and his own later adopted denomination didn’t give RZ the chance to count the good cost when he was on the back foot at age 17, and the miserable Holy Spiritless denominations of the millions of hangers-on don’t give them the chance to count the good cost or exercise reason. Do those people advocate praying?
I am astounded at the neglect of Orr-Ewing and the alleged adder-up Lennox not to check out due diligence on RZ’s trustees before going into employment with them, or run even elementary intellectual checks like I did (it took me 2 minutes), because RZ and his trustees were very pleased to have them as a front, spreading the “word” at all the camps and conferences.
“Brian P’s “delight” (1.03 a.m) doesn’t persuade me”
I’m legitimately interested in knowing what you objected to, that I said.
Simply that eternal fate is / is going to be fact and I think our “delight” will be in the vindication (in any manner) of those wronged (by whoever) and to some extent in whatever degree of repentance the wrong doers may eventually manifest. Upon reflection this appears to be what you meant. My next comment will be expanding (from my experience) on my and others’ difference with Miekhie’s expression.
I am pretty sure we are told to delight when the evil are destroyed, are we not? The disgusting den of vipers that is Evangelicalism Inc. is about ripe for throwing into the Lake. The religious establishment was hopelessly wicked long before Jesus, during Jesus’ earthly ministry, and throughout all of the intervening 2000 years to the present. That’s pretty much one of the core messages of Scripture.
How did God the Son in the Flesh treat the moneychangers, the Pharisees, the scribes, the Sadducees (today’s religious leftists), etc.?
The same demonic tares that put the Lord’s prophets to death for speaking the truth, the same animals that had the Lord himself executed, the same spawn of Satan that burned saints at the stake in the Middle Ages for spreading Scripture to the masses are those who today rape and molest girls and kids and cover it up with the full collaboration or at least idleness of (the majority of) our ecclesiastical elites. You’re d*** right that I will rejoice when this snakepit gets their comeuppance of unquenchable eternal fire.
Yes, I am the Lord’s servant. A filthy rag. I am saved only by the Lord Jesus and his death and resurrection. Without the resurrection, I find no hope for all of man. I did not, however, claim and create a gigantic leadership role of mans’ souls on earth, in the Lords name; being a shepherd who slaughtered His sheep. I am a lowly servant with a small sack of seeds, hoping some of them will find fertile soil. Thank you God, for your Grace.
“Yes, I am the Lord’s servant. A filthy rag. I am saved only by the Lord Jesus and his death and resurrection.”
Ignore these big-mouth incel keyboard philosophers who are more than likely either angsty teenage boys or unemployed loser fiftysomething men living in a basement. Don’t let them get to you.
Equivocating sin drives me nuts. It’s like when people say we shouldn’t speak negatively on drug addiction because “I’m addicted to coffee.” There are “lost sheep” and there are “ravenous wolves” described throughout the NT. Calling out a predator is to be wise, not self-righteous.
Vicki, I too thank you for your courage and vulnerability in sharing your story. You are a blessing to a hurting church.
“Many will say to Me on that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?” And then I will declare to them ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.-Mt 7:23
If Ravi wasn’t “practicing lawlessness”, I have no idea what that phrase means.
Sorry MIEKHIE, but your comment is actually anti what the scriptures actually tell us to do. I realize that you have likely received bad teaching which is sort of a half-truth and are merely repeating it. What is the other half? How about things like this:
1 Cor. 5:11, “But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people. What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?”
Gen. 6:9, “This is the account of Noah and his family. Noah was a righteous man, blameless among the people of his time, and he walked faithfully with God.”
Matt. 23:29, “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous.”
God calls certain men righteous in the O,T, even before Jesus died for them. Jesus repeats this by proclaiming that the O.T. prophets were righteous even before He died for them. Paul tells us to judge those in the church! If we choose not to, we sin! Both Jesus and Paul warn us to be actively on the lookout for wolves in our midst. And when Paul was referring to his past as a Pharisee with all of its inherit pride he referred to that religious pride “righteousness” as “a filthy rag.” He never used the term to describe us. That kind of thinking is what opens up people to receive RZ’s kind of abuse in the first place. We are fearfully and wonderfully made! We are valuable to God because we were made in His image and that is the very best thing that exists. God made no one to be abused. That thought is a lie from a very real Devil.
The N.T. writers judged people in the church from the man sleeping with his mother-in-law to those spreading heresies and false teachings. They told us to judge too. If we do not then we become the victims. All sins are not equal. Overeating at a meal is not the same as wanting to become involved in human trafficking for sexual favors as RZ clearly wanted to do!
Hi Jesperson, I am not saying that we should not point Ravi’s sin etc, but it is not in our place to decide his eternal destiny nor to judge his motive from the beginning of his ministry. How little do we know about his heart and motivation and yet some christians are so wise as calling him as fake from the beginning or even his conversion story. Some do think they know where Ravi will end up, but we don’t know what had happened at the last moment of his life (remember the thief on the cross). We might not have the compassion, but God is our good Sheperd who loves Ravi and probably gave him as much as opportunities to repent with his dying breath.
See my 6.29 in reply to Brian P’s 11.23. We are only replicating the error of those we pretend to repudiate if we pronounce who “is saved”. I think Vicki is describing, like Jeremiah and Elijah, disappointment and weariness in straightforward vulnerability, not cynicism.
God operates surprising sliding scales. My old self-appointed “animators” sneered at us (their membership) because we were according to them just as degenerate as they were (it is perilous for me to elaborate). I think Mr Jesperson has put the distinction clearer than you did above (why I largely agreed with you).
Our wrongful deference to those who spiritually starved and beat us and the Indians alike, should now give us pause for thought and more interceding – especially for our own countries.
“See my 6.29 in reply to Brian P’s 11.23.”
You know–someone’s visible fruits take precedence for me over and above their (empty) words, in my estimation. I’ll humor a Biblical argument for the opposite, IF you can make one–but, I think you have your work cut out for you.
Go ahead, try and convince me that RZ and his cartel of enablers are really salt-and-light-of-the-earth paragons of virtue… clock’s a-ticking.
Brian P 8.13, saying the same as you is quick: Calvinism as colonial oppression in the hands of the entire firm, and Ravi could have taken the initiative to change the tune and bring the house of cards tumbling at any time, and he didn’t (why not), and his support staff didn’t (why not).
Again, this kind of thinking ignores the scriptures including the things in Red. Jesus spoke very clearly to the Pharisees, who were right-wing religious conservatives by telling them “How will you avoid hell?” Those words are just as true today and are to be used just as often as every other word He spoke. It is not our job to judge the dead, but woe to those who do not take the clear warnings of Christ clearly! The writers of the N.T. spoke clearly about what kind of men go to the New Jerusalem and which do not. The kind that do outrageous things like Ravi did are permanently excluded. That is what John clearly says. Reaffirming what the scriptures already say is not judging anyone in any kind of unrighteous way, like you have apparently been taught.
Miekhie, is it very common in Indian culture to call oneself a Christian merely for attending church and nothing else. They are called nominal Christians. You are missing out on the differences in culture as well. There is another term in India called RICE CHRISTIANS. Please research it.
“Let the Lord be the judge of it because frankly you and I are no better than Ravi.”
That is just patently absurd. The last time I checked, most of us are not international child rapists who establish our own private brothels for our use. That comment isn’t just stupid, it is ten kinds of cringeworthy.
God sees the heart of men. Brian, you might not be a child rapist that own private brothels, but i am sad to point to you that you and I are still sinners and have nothing to brag before God. In God’s eye, we are no better than Ravi in that regard. (Romans 3:23)
Save your relativism for some SJW college campus.
Miekhie, I am a sinner saved by grace. At the same time, I know that the bible is full of warnings concerning wolves (predators) who camouflage themselves. Identifying a wolf is just being wise and doing what we’re commanded to do. If you can’t learn something from Ravi’s deceitful life, you aren’t being humble, you’re being foolish. This is what a wolf looks like. This is how a wolf operates. These are things we need to be savvy about. God will deal with Ravi perfectly. But we’re not all wolves, and it’s not helpful to equivocate being a sinner in God’s eyes with a real danger we’re told to be wary of.
Hi Martin, on the contrary to what you are saying, I believe there is a lot we can learn from Ravi’s deceitful life.
1. We as christians can learn how weak we are. There is no place for complacency in our spiritual life, nor have we reached a stage where we are immune to sin. In this, we must be grateful to God for keeping us in His straight path (or not so straight perhaps with many forgiveness moments along the way)
2. Though we see Ravi as a wolf, I personally can also see him as deceived by the master of deceit. He along with many other christian leaders, are victims of the work of Satan. I think we must not lose sight of this and must be careful.
3. I also learn how christians adore their spiritual leaders and let them be unaccountable. That is happening in many christian organization with their super anointing leaders. This must change as JR is also actively presenting problems after problems in thus blog.
To the extent that you are saying “if any man thinks he stands, take heed lest he fall”, we are in agreement. But describing Ravi as a victim of the work Satan is a poor perspective. The only victims are the people he used. He was a tool, not a victim. And he alone bears that responsibility.
Miekhie, A born again believer is called a saint in the Bible. Sinner is a term reserved for unbelievers. Born agains believers have the Holy Spirit which helps us to overcome sin not practive it daily. RZ does not qualify for ministry based on the Bible I read. Falsifying credentials should have kicked him out of the ministry. Believers would welcome him into the church but he should never have been speaking, teaching or representing the body of Christ. My Bible is clear on that. RZ position as a leader simply should not have happened. He was not qualified. RZ and RZIM are not being obediant to God’s Word. There is no way I am going to follow a man and his organization that is bucking God’s will. I feel sad for those that are foolish enough to do so.
Not many christian or non christian people desire to serially abuse women worldwide, lie about it, tell others he will destroy them and mis-appropriating donors money while pretending to be a holy man. What you’re doing is called sin-leveling.
Hi Vance, as I am learning thru my walk with Jesus all these years, i get a glimpse the wickedness in my own heart. What you say as sin levelling is just the way I see myself in Ravi’s place. If I am in his position as a top leader with minimal accountability and harbouring this perhaps sex addiction or sex perversion and can get away without anyone knowing, do I have the integrity to keep my path straight with God? I must confess that I don’t know whether I am better than Ravi. (I definitely know without Jesus, I will be lost)
Miehlke (I know that’s not how your screenname is spelled, I just don’t care to correct myself),
“If I am in his position as a top leader with minimal accountability and harbouring this perhaps sex addiction or sex perversion and can get away without anyone knowing, do I have the integrity to keep my path straight with God? I must confess that I don’t know whether I am better than Ravi.”
If you are truly unsure as to whether you would set up a global sex slave empire for your personal use if you had the power/connections/impunity to do so, please do us all the favor of seeking professional help, now.
First off, I believe everything Vicki has said, the report, Lori Anne, etc. I am in agreement with most here that Ravi was a special kind of evil. And Vicki, you are courageous. I’ve been following this story and heard that Ravi’s son had set up a blog to defend him. After reading a few posts it is clear he’s in denial and is not a rational thinker in the way he ignores facts, skips over evidence, etc. I do feel bad for him if he didn’t know how his father really was. But he did post this:
He claims these texts were in 2016, which are long after the revelation of abuse of many people including Vicki’s daughter. Julie, was this allegation from Ravi’s son part of the interview? I believe it should be addressed as the other side has made it part of a case to “debunk” people out to ruin a holy man of God who can no longer defend himself (I’m paraphrasing those people who are somehow blind to the truth). It is odd that he claims that his mom hasn’t had Ravi’s phone returned from the investigation (so he conveniently can ignore all the phone stuff as hearsay until he can view it), but yet he has some phone with Vicki’s texts… Thanks.
In other posts I have mentioned that the texts from Vicki and Anurag were found when they first started their story in the summer before my mom turned over the phones. Not knowing what all the report would claim to find on his phones, we didn’t do a deep dive. But we knew those two were involved because of what Baughman had conveyed to RZIM already, so we searched for their content trying to see if their messages shed any light on the issue. That is why we have some of their content.
Nathan, I have reached out to your mother for comment and she hasn’t responded. I do know, however, that the day after Steve Baughman sent an email to RZIM, informing them of the spa victims and their allegations, your mother called Vicki Blue and left a voicemail. You say you both “knew those two were involved.” Would you please explain what you knew to be the nature of their relationship?
I’ve made it clear in my writings and objection to these claims what I knew about his relationships with Anurag and Vicki. I will continue to address it on my blog.
I’m just trying to confirm what you and your mother knew and when. But going on what you’ve openly stated, you and your mother knew Vicki and Ravi “were involved” when you discovered the texts “in the summer before my mom turned over the phones.” Would you please explain why, given what your mother knew, that RZIM in September denied the allegations, saying they “do not in any way comport with the man we knew for decades”?
Also, Miller & Martin found 200 photos of women and girls on Ravi’s phones. Given that you and your mom, a board member and RZIM chief cultural officer, reportedly were viewing what was on those phones, the first RZIM statement is especially curious. In your scanning of your dad’s phones, did you not see these 200 photos?
Julie, please reread my comment, as you badly misread it. I was answering why we had information on texts from Anurag and Vicki, but not information regarding any other communications alleged in the report. When I said we “knew those two were involved,” it was referring to Anurag and Vicki. As in, we knew those two (Anurag and Vicki) were involved in the story with Baughman based on what information had been conveyed at that time. Their new stories are contradicted by a long history of messages saying nothing but positive things to dad and praising his character. So that evidence backing our view is the evidence we went looking for, and that is the evidence we found. We didn’t believe them then, and we don’t believe them now.
And no, of course we didn’t see any pictures on there, which is one of many reasons why we continue to reject these allegations.
Nathan, Regardless of what you meant to convey, what you clearly revealed is that you and your mother were searching your father’s phones in the month or two leading up to the exposé revealing Ravi’s spa abuse. It’s hard to imagine that when the allegations were beginning to leak, you both didn’t do a “deep dive” on the phones, especially given Ravi’s prior sexting history. It also strains credulity to believe you found Vicki Blue’s texts, but none of the 200 pictures of other women and girls.
Julie, will you not acknowledge that this evidence of Nathan’s does indeed contradict this story?
Watch yourself (and Nathan) here. I would trust a Zacharias about half as much as I’d trust your average undercover Hezbollah or FSB agent.
Nathan is merely trying to be disrespectful and stirring the waters. He has a chance to answer questions truthfully but like his father he is out to ruin the opposition. Apple doesn’t fall far from the tree it seems. His blog is not worth reading. He is arrogant and condesending on it. Calls others all sorts of demeaning names in order to smash the opposition. He was taught very well in the Zacharias classroom and cult. The Zacharias children need to be deprogramed. In Indian culture the male child is taught he must take on the role of protecting the mother and females when the father is gone. Nathan has no choice but to follow the messages he learned all his life from the father. It is his duty. It is sad that this mindset was imposed on him from birth. I would say that is child abuse.
I will not explain any of the very infrequent texts I made to RZ again.
I was in the midst of several years of intense therapy when the 2016 text was made. It had something to do with keeping your enemies close. I could not let him know that I detested him. I had to make him think everything was OK. I believe that must have been my last contact. I did the same thing to my rapist (I was 12) for years by telling him I loved him, (he threatening to kill me & my sisters if I told anyone), until I was 16 & finally told someone the truth about what he had been doing to me.
It was constructed, not with caring for him.The same way the picture of Becca and me was. It would seem OK on the surface, but it really wasn’t. It wasn’t sent with good feelings. A survivor technique. You need to talk with someone with education to get a more thorough understanding of what this is. Soon afterwards, I became completely aware and healthy concerning what RZ had really done to me, and all contact stopped. I finally had some healing. I don’t even really remember sending the text, but I know I did, and I know it was still really sick then. It wasn’t a serious offer to see him, and he knew it. (I did not really love the man who was raping me). I would have NEVER actually seen RZ again. If there is any other text, it was before then, and probably a very similar content. I should never have contacted him at all.
I will not be torn to pieces over this man anymore. I will not be abused anymore.
You are a courageous heroine. Please continue to speak the truth about not only RZ, but the entire evilgelical mafia that created and enabled him.
I’ve just read this:
I’ve not read all of Nathan’s other pieces yet but I strongly agree with him about:
1. It is all about theology, make no mistake. Not being from a calvinist background I had felt no need to be “apologetized” like millions of English and Americans did (especially to such low calibre). But once I began to take notice I at once realised how deeply dismayed, disquieted and alarmed I was about the UK arm of the RZIM series of organisations and its front people, so influential in the camps and conferences.
2. The RZIM series of companies were no ordinary family firm, and it’s not just since the appointment of Martin & M. that major employees have been kept out of the loop – it started long before. With hindsight once he and Naomi had gained experience they should have set up their careers completely independently.
i. It is not in the spirit of Jesus ascended and Holy Spirit, let alone St Paul, to form a following to the name of one man / woman. Having done so (and we do need to ask who advised this, decades ago) that whole nexus of organisations, just by seeking placement around and being around churches and para(lyti)church contexts, was clouding the issues for the ordinary public. I have long been sceptical of the epidemic of para(siti)church organisations and the mania for outsourcing spirituality to them.
ii. Evangelising is a specific gift within a sound church and it is tragic how Ravi was deprived of this milieu as Stackhouse points out, diverted by the spiritually needy calvinists who touched a chord on Ravi’s heart, having himself been placed on the back foot by Calvinism since a young age when it had put him in a series of bad patches (his childhood denomination and YFC = Youth For Crocodiles have no pity).
iii. Sadly the conditions were created long ago for compromise, not only at the hands of the shadowy trustees some of whose names it has taken huge effort by researchers to find out, but the hands of the headline-grabbing big names fronting their UK tentacles.
iv. Ravi had made strange statements about cricket: apparently his attachment to it represented moral depravity for him. Was “youth cricket” in south India in those days predatory against his age group like “youth football” in England a little more recently? Were there not college classes (in Canada too) for Ravi to catch up?
Nathan’s site is loosely called “defending Ravi” but I think his criticisms of some things deserve an audience for their insightful illumination (precisely as we heed Brian P’s caution at 7.07 above). He is utterly accurate in damning the entire series of enterprises as soul trafficking.
Indians have a chip on their shoulder about Brits that goes all the way back to the British East Indian company. They have never gotten over their views on colonisation and use it to avoid responsiblity for their own actions. The Zarchaias family enjoy much admiration in India. This was the first Indian Christian ministry that was exported from India. Now that is all gone. They have lost their status and power. Status and power is everything to an Indian. Truth is down the line of priorities.
Vicki, Indian women put up with anything from their Indian men. They are taught to just shut up and put up with it or the Indan male will figure out how to keep them in line. This is their culture and it works with their women. The Zacharias family has not figured out they are in America now. American women are under no obligation to put up with their silly rules. Indian males love to show who is boss and to keep women under their thumb. It is a rigid system. Indian families are taught blind loyality to one another even if one of them is a murderer. They lack a moral compass in that regard. Children will be disowned if they buck that bully system of fear.
And, this is why women are afraid to speak up. I wouldn’t go to church either, it this is what I had to deal with.
If and when RZIM compensates any of the abused women, I hope that Vicki Blue is also well compensated.
Vicki and Lori Anne,
The Lord be with both of you. Please ignore the comments that emphasize RZ or debate theology when the attention should instead be directed toward survivors.
“The” attention should no way be diverted from survivors of hands-on and verbal abuse; spiritual vacuity that has also hurt millions of souls. This is not zerosum and is not either-or or competing. Nathan should have thought harder about in the name of what sort of “gospel” he wanted to get sucked into that ill-run firm. Careful reading between the lines shows that the recent moves were afoot for far longer than 8 weeks.
We don’t see whether Ravi ran the firm (badly), or whether he was its pawn (if the latter, why?) Why were we told so little about the trustees and why won’t Orr Ewing and Lennox come clean about their relations with those trustees? His customers were already churchgoers, why didn’t they put in any effort to match up what was being alleged about their religion? This may have created a cooler atmosphere in front of the hype about this “ministry” which was what attracted the women.
I ignored the nonsense in around 2010 because I didn’t see myself as a customer, but I shouldn’t have done. Thinking out the sense in things needs to be more of a joint effort, for everybody’s good. These things don’t – I rpt. don’t – take away from the testimony of the women, they show how many people could have warned the company to get its and Ravi’s act together. Let me go on to quote the following especially bad red flag:
It makes no sense for them to claim he is indispensible, even if he is Indian. If they had good work to do, there would be a range of people to play a bigger part than him. Here’s another vanload of puzzles:
“Not the only / OFTEN others”; “if for no other reason” – why not certainly for a lot of other reasons? The Charities Commission has got wise to misspending by charities in the Oxford area and the front people (who had huge sway at camps and conferences) knew well that US religious “charities” are unregulated, and they need to be asked why this was convenient for them.
I am as disgusted as Nathan about the way ship is being jumped by rats but he has to tell us more himself. Among other things who does he mean when he says “The Ministry”?
Why do you have all the comments turned off on all the posts on defendingravi?
Mr. Payne, I believe Nathan has set up a youtube account where he safely monitors comments on the video he produces or some Malaysian sounding guy is fronting for him. His comments are in line with those comments he is reading. Nathan can continue to stay behind the curtain like OZ if I am correct. There is a Malasian guy that is reading Nathan’s comments on youtube and dialoging with commentators there to steer the dialog. It is very clever if I am correct.
Why choose to speak to investigative journalists but refuse to speak to investigators at Miller and Martin when the opportunity existed?
Are you saying that the investigators, who found over 200 photos on RZ’s phone, are lying? Are you making the claim that the plain evidence is fabricated? Such evidence is admissible in a court of law and reveals that RZ lied. You are joining in the lie if you refuse to acknowledge the truth. Please remember Ananias and Sapphira and take care for your own soul.
He did not say investigators were lying. Why are you accusing (and threatening) him?
If he refuses to accept the evidence found by the investigators then the implication is that the investigators are lying. Also, he is a grown man and can answer for himself, which is why I addressed the question to him and not to you.
And I must assume that you are a grown man, or woman, as well and can answer for yourself. Why are you accusing and threatening Nathan, with Biblical curses I might add?
Investigators have presented “some” evidence and, going on his careful wording, Nathan hasn’t “refused to accept” it. Fortunately the (moral) heat is on Lennox – and the conference profiteering racket – already. Lennox wasn’t born into this like Ravi, Nathan and Orr Ewing were, he should have checked out the quality of belief. Whilst I ignored, to my and your peril, the vacuity Ravi was long trapped in (and we know by whom) I like us all have been “tossed” about by his lookalikes and the hysterical, robotised wouldbe predators and saboteurs they harbour, from my young day on. Yes Nathan is grown and I expect he will offer us more on his blog.
Above you said, “And no, of course we didn’t see any pictures on there, which is one of many reasons why we continue to reject these allegations.” But the investigators found over 200 photos on RZ’s phone, which is evidence that supports the allegations. Are you making the claim that the investigators are lying?
Not sure how I feel about my comment bringing Nathan out of the woodwork… He’s building his own truth about all this and perhaps that’s what he needs to go through. He waxes poetic on how common NDA’s are and doesn’t address the donor funded $250k payment to the Thompson’s to induce them to sign. That’s NOT standard. He doesn’t address the lie that RZ told when he said he was never alone with women who were not wife and daughters…just defends the “back treatments” (which could have been done by male therapists but of course it’s always females). Talks about having a massage therapist in one of the Bangkok apartments as ok but doesn’t mention her getting $40k of donor funds for culinary school…he was generous indeed. Wonder how many donors knew about that judgement call? Says he and mom want the phones back as proof but doesn’t address that the investigators asked for the phones used during the Lori Ann period and were denied (guess the investigators are still waiting on those phones…). The phones don’t matter anyway given all the dirty emails are on servers outside the phones. Throws an unrelated suit from an investment firm against M&M out there to undermine their credibility and doesn’t acknowledge that the investigation was actually outsourced to a firm (Muller Group) who are ex-FBI, etc. Not to mention that suggesting a law firm would publish a report without thoroughly vetting evidence and risk reputation and possible disbarment all to find answers that RZIM did NOT WANT is crazy. All to take down an evangelist they’d probably never heard of?Complains that his mom didn’t get invited to the presentation of the investigation but never mentions the fact that his sister, the CEO and a board member was there. No one hears her refuting the report. The blog is an unfortunate exercise in conspiracy theory where Satan and an atheist are behind all this mess. And ignores that the report was to confirm the allegations vetted and reported on by Christianity Today…what’s their motive? If all these things are untrue there is a huge disparagement lawsuit that the family and RZIM could file…real damages like the radio program revenue and book sales, etc. But no one’s disputing anything. Except this guy and some RZ sheeple. Sucks because lives were really harmed and reparations need to be made.
CJ: MD, excellent critique. It’s very strange indeed, that Nathan wanted to work for that outfit in the first place (let alone Lennox), given their flimsy intellectual basis and the unsound organisational methods they had all along. Why would he (they) want to?
CJ, it was the fastest route to the loot perhaps? It’s not a bad life to make six figures in the family business as “Creative Director, Video” (from LinkedIn)…and given the reports on how easy RZ got annoyed with the staff (Ruth’s letter) I’m sure no one’s going to call out the son for anything…
MD, The Zacharias family is hoping they can take away your attention with shiny objects so no one looks further under the curtain. They are hoping they can wear everyone down with rubbish and then they can go on their merry way. They are probably aware more is going to come out and doing damage control. Protect the family business at all costs. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ They still think they are in control of everything. Surprises are coming.
If you go way back on the 990’s you will see the daughters making good money while they were still college age. How can one do THAT?? How can they study? If is very common for Indians to put their kids on the payroll even though they contribute nothing. Parents can often use it to emotionally blackmail them when older. See all we did for you and now you owe us. Great scheme if you can work it.
Nathan’s at it again posting. He really should stop posting. It’s just nonsense. He posted a letter his mom wrote to family and friends apparently. She claims complete innocence. Even says RZIM is forcing her to move! Well, legally they can only do that if they hold title to the home! Or perhaps the ministry was making the mortgage payments and now can’t afford to. Either way, I’m glad that I told my wife years ago we weren’t supporting RZIM when I saw al the large family salaries on the 990 form. It’s so odd that Sarah has disappeared (probably the smartest one) while mom, son and other daughter whine and deflect and don’t acknowledge that one child saw the evidence. The letter essentially says we didn’t find any evidence in RZ’s stuff while moving therefore it’s all made up. The illogic is mind numbing. It’s like “here’s all the times he didn’t molest anyone so this is all made up”.
In your comment above you tell Nathan, “what you clearly revealed is that you and your mother were searching your father’s phones in the month or two leading up to the exposé revealing Ravi’s spa abuse.”
But Nathan didn’t “reveal” this for the first time in his comments above. He reported this two months ago on his own web page here: https://defendingravi.wordpress.com/2021/02/20/february-17-2021/ .
On this page, Nathan says, “But in August, as we first found out about the allegations, we looked at his phones to check the contact between dad and two of the people involved – Anurag and Vicki. Not having any clue what Dad would [be] accused of months later, we didn’t spend time searching through every part of his phone. Now I wish we had.”
I did not even know Nathan had a web page until reading the comments on this article. What has been clearly revealed to me is that evidence has been withheld from many reports in order to support a particular narrative. I will confess my own haste to accept the conclusions drawn by the various reports, including those authored by Christianity Today, Miller and Martin, and The Roys Report.
Fair-minded people should be more skeptical. We have a law that says individuals shall not be deprived of their rights without due process. This trial-by-media that has become so common in our society does not meet the standards of due-process. Nor does this practice of hiring consulting firms to investigate and produce reports for the public, advertised as an “independent investigation.” The only thing independent about these investigations is that they do not depend on long-established rules of jurisprudence. Accused parties have a right to face their accusers and to cross-examine.
I want to know why this evidence presented by Nathan has not been disclosed by those reporting the story. This evidence directly contradicts statements made in your article above. And, as of today, April 22, 2021, Christianity Today is still promoting the RZ story from February 11 as its most-read news story, and has made it available in seven languages in addition to English. And, I see you have just released another article as well. This is starting to look a lot less like a news story and a lot more like an agenda.
I never said Nathan revealed the information for the first time in the comment above. And what difference does that make?
I have read Nathan’s website and not found anything convincing on it. What evidence have you found that would call into question the overwhelming evidence (numerous victim testimonies, hundreds of photos on Ravi’s phone, financial records, etc…) of Ravi’s misconduct?
Nathan voluntarily revealed information that should have been disclosed by those reporting on it. Because his information directly contradicts the prevailing narrative.
As far as what evidence would I question? All of it. That’s what a fair hearing entails.
Exactly. There is a difference between fair mindedness and just being plain stupid.
Stupidity is too mild a description for what’s going on here. Those who defend perpetrators of heinous crimes are allowing themselves to be used as useful idiots.
Stupidity is too mild a description for what’s going on here. Those who have honestly examined the evidence have stopped defending RZ.. Instead, they have repented and issued apologies Those who persist in defending wickedness are playing the role of the useful idiot.
Julie, it seems some people are unable to tell the difference between evidence that reveals the truth and statements that are made to obfuscate the truth. No one in the Zacharias family has presented physical evidence to support claims of innocence. However, some have created “information” by making statements that serve only as a distraction to steer people away from the truth. The wise are able to make the distinction between physical evidence that reveals truth and “information” that covers up the truth. It is disturbing to see people play the fool by doubling down to defend RZ’s wicked behavior.
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