With church attendance plummeting in 2020, Alan Scott, the new pastor of what was then Vineyard Anaheim, reportedly instituted salvation quotas for staff with spreadsheets recording how many people key staff had led to Christ.
Former Vineyard Anaheim College Pastor Cynthia Andrews told El Informe Roys (TRR) that Scott required her to spend more than half her work hours evangelizing, and expected a conversion rate of three people an hour. Unable to meet the conversion quotas, Andrews said she’d often stay at Walmart until late at night, trying to get people to pray a salvation prayer, her anxiety mounting.
“I would spend hours praying, begging God to let me see people come to faith,” she added. “I knew if I didn’t, Alan was going to be mad at me.”
Andrews now sees what Scott did as spiritually abusive. And she’s one of 11 former pastors, staff, and volunteers from three Vineyard churches where Scott pastored, who shared their stories of alleged abuse and manipulation with TRR.
Some told TRR of loyalty tests Scott would perform on staff, scheduling last-minute meetings to see who was dedicated enough to get a babysitter and show up. They told TRR that Scott claimed he could see people’s hidden sin, judged staff according to their body type, and blacklisted those he couldn’t control, saying they were blocking growth.
Your tax-deductible gift helps our journalists report the truth and hold Christian leaders and organizations accountable. Give a gift of $30 or more to The Roys Report this month, and you will receive a copy of “Hurt and Healed by the Church” by Ryan George. To donate, haga clic aquí.
These allegations come amid ongoing litigation of Scott’s decision to remove Vineyard Anaheim—Vineyard’s longtime, flagship church with an estimated $62 million in assets—from Vineyard USA, renaming it Dwelling Place. In a demanda judicial filed last November, former Vineyard Anaheim church and board members accused Scott of deceiving former board members in a premeditated plan to steal the church property.
Dwelling Place and the Scotts have denied the claims. And in court documents, they’ve argued that the “church autonomy doctrine” bars the government from interfering in ecclesial matters. The church has requested the case be dismissed, and a hearing on that motion is set for June 2.
To his congregation, Scott justified removing the church from Vineyard USA by claiming God led him to do it. Former staff told TRR that claiming divine direction to escape responsibility is typical for Scott.
“He’ll always make everything look very sovereign,” said Cynthia’s husband, Bradley Andrews, former manager of operations for the Vineyard Anaheim Compassion ministry. “Like, ‘This is what God is doing. I’m not doing anything.’ All negative emotion that’s coupled into this—it’s swept under the rug, like: ‘ This is what it takes to be a serious revivalist.’”
Scott did not respond to TRR multiple requests for an interview regarding allegations about his abusive leadership. The Dwelling Place board directed TRR to a March 10 statement on its website that denies the allegations in the lawsuit.
Greg Scherer, who is a Dwelling Place board member and the church’s HR volunteer, said Alan is a “really wonderful man.”
He added, “We’re in the middle of litigation with folks that are trying their best to find any crack in it, and from our perspective, to impugn Alan’s reputation, the church’s reputation.”
But Scherer said the church, which had dwindled to 400 prior to Scott’s arrival, is thriving in its true mission. A March church statement claimed attendance is higher at Dwelling Place than it was prior to the disassociation from Vineyard. However, neither Scherer, nor Dwelling Place responded to a request for current attendance numbers.
“(Scott) and his wife rescued our church from certain demise,” Scherer said. “We’re very much realigned with what our foundational purposes of a church were to actually go and preach the Gospel to all the world.””
Scottish Roots
Scott grew up “longing for a place to belong,” he once said on a Vineyard podcast. His father died when Scott was 9 months old, and his mother struggled to raise him and his two siblings on her own in a low-income part of Glasgow, Scotland. Scott became a Christian after watching the movie, “Jesus,” with a friend.
He later attended Street Mission, a church known for welcoming and accepting addicts, convicts, and new believers, said Gordon Collins, who grew up with Scott and also attended Street Mission. In the 1990s, Pastor Jim McManus led Street Mission to become part of Vineyard and renamed the church Glasgow Vineyard.
Around the mid-1990s, McManus left and Alan’s brother, John, became pastor of Glasgow Vineyard. Meanwhile, Alan Scott went to Bible college but returned a few years later to take an informal leadership role at the church, said Collins.
Then, scandal rocked the church. John Scott publicly confessed to engaging in an inappropriate relationship with a married female member of the church, Collins said. This was confirmed by another former Glasgow church member, who asked to remain anonymous for fear of retaliation.
John stepped down as pastor, Collins said, and Alan Scott handled the fallout. This included managing numerous complaints about the Scotts’ controlling and manipulative leadership, Collins said. Alan Scott responded by chastising Collins for complaining about church leaders, reminding Collins of his subordinate place, Collins said.
Collins then mailed a letter describing Alan Scott’s alleged manipulation, control, and dishonesty to Martyn Smith, a prominent pastor, who at the time oversaw Northern England and Scottish Vineyard churches. Smith didn’t answer Collins’ letter, but instead held a church meeting, telling church members they needed to stop speaking against their leaders, Collins claimed.
For the next 25 years, John Scott preached in Vineyard churches around the world, including one where his brother Alan pastored.
TRR reached out to Vineyard Churches UK and Ireland (VCUKI) to ask whether John Scott went through any sort of restoration process, but VCUKI would not comment on the specifics. We also reached out to John Scott and Martyn Smith for comment, but neither one responded.
By 1999, Scott and singer/songwriter wife Kathryn Scott, moved to Northern Ireland and planted Causeway Coast Vineyard (CCV). Scott led it from a church of six into a megachurch using his “Scattered Servants” model of evangelism and physical healing, according to his libro.
Then in 2017, the Scotts moved to Orange County, Calif., without a job. Scott claimed in a grabación of a 2021 pastoral training session at Vineyard Anaheim that he received “35 or 37” prophetic words telling him to move to Southern California. But 2017 was also the year Vineyard Anaheim’s senior pastor was expected to resign, according to the lawsuit against Scott and Dwelling Place.
Scott told the Vineyard Anaheim elders he didn’t want to pastor the church, the lawsuit states. But then Scott inquired about Vineyard Anaheim’s assets, and a few months later, applied for the senior pastor position and got it, the suit adds.
Many Vineyard Anaheim church members were excited about Scott’s hiring and believed he would bring revival to the dwindling congregation, said Claire Edmondson, one of Scott’s first hires as a youth pastor. Edmondson is the granddaughter of Bob and Penny Fulton, founding leaders in the Vineyard movement. She told TRR that she had interned at CCV under Scott, and at the time of Scott’s hiring, “would’ve followed Scott anywhere.”
But Scott immediately began cleaning house, ridding the church of anyone he deemed too sinful, uncool, and too much into the homeschooling world, Edmondson said. He called the former staff the “B team,” she added, and looked instead for people he deemed “marked by God” or “seared by the anointing of God.”
Four years later, Scott quickly and without “transparent accountability,” led the church out of the Vineyard Movement in what Vineyard USA (VUSA) leadership llamado an “extreme betrayal.”
Scott’s disassociation from VUSA prompted over a dozen alleged victims of Scott’s spiritual abuse from Europe and the United States to tell VUSA their allegations, VUSA stated.
Many of these same alleged victims also contacted TRR.
“(Victims) indicated that the dismissive, overspiritualized, and controlling language used in the correspondence (between the Scotts and VUSA) was reflective of their experiences with the Scotts and their team,” VUSA stated. “This led them to share their personal accounts of spiritual abuse and manipulation with Vineyard USA.”
A Pattern of Control
Those who talked to TRR described Scott as a pastor who built successful churches at the expense of staff. From his earliest days in Scotland in the 1990s, Scott led with an air of authority and puritanical control, said Gordon Collins.
Scott often drew young people to himself with a promise of mentorship, added several former staff and mentees of Scott’s.
One of those mentored by Scott was Luke Martin, who told his story on a recent episode of The Creed and Culture Podcast. Martin declined to speak with TRR. But in the podcast, he described Scott’s leadership as “manipulative” and “controlling.”
“It was an environment where it was OK if you were going along with what the leader was saying,” Martin said. “But as soon as you started to have doubts about what he was saying, that wasn’t appreciated. I raised concerns about this guy, which were ignored for 17 years.”
Former Vineyard Anaheim College Pastor Cynthia Andrews said she was 22 when a church staff member invited her to a group dinner on Scott’s behalf. That night, Scott told her that he’d seen prophesies about her, Andrews said. Later, Scott told her she’d passed his tests of trust, she added. And before long, Scott reportedly became her “spiritual father,” claiming to have “secret insight” into her future.
But one day, Andrews accepted an invitation to speak at another church’s youth group without seeking Scott’s permission. Andrews said Scott raised his voice and accused her of breaking his trust. She’d seen what happened when people broke trust: Scott would push them out of his inner circle and spiritualized his decision by saying God removed his favor from the person. Then he’d marginalize other staff who spoke to the mistrusted staff member, she said
At both CCV and Vineyard Anaheim, Scott considered himself an apostle with God-like knowledge, Andrews and former CCV Business Manager Donna Finney told TRR. For example, Scott would say he could hear what people were saying about him inside their homes, Andrews and Finney said in separate interviews.
“Within the first or second time of meeting us, he told us that he could tell what our sins were before meeting us,” said Finney. “He would also declare regularly that we were likely to dream about him, and if we did, he represented God in our dreams.”
Scott’s word was final, and he wouldn’t allow anyone to criticize leaders because it wouldn’t “honor” leaders, said both Andrews and Finney.
Finney added that when a male church member made an accusation of child abuse against a spouse, Finney reported the matter to authorities. The matter was quickly resolved, she said. But Scott reprimanded her because he wanted to be the one to decide what to do, she said.
“He was so angry with me, he just got up and banged my table and said, ‘I will make the decision going forward,’” Finney said.
Other times, Alan would correct prayers or ministry stories shared in staff meetings to fit whatever prophetic theme he’d established, said Claire Edmondson.
“Alan would say, ‘This was the year of glory. This was the year of repentance. This is the month of mercy,’” she said. “If you shared a theme on repentance, but we’re not in the repentance season, then that story is overlooked or even corrected.”
Volunteers were required to attend Vineyard Anaheim’s Encounter School of Mission (ESOM), said Nancy Bray, long-time Vineyard Anaheim member and volunteer, and a plaintiff in the lawsuit.
Bray said ESOM’s director Daniel Henderson told her that students would need to be ready during meetings with Scott to share life-changing stories of God moving. If they didn’t have one, Henderson said they should make one up, Bray claimed.
Henderson did not respond to a request by TRR para comentarios.
Scott also created a loyalty culture, sources said. While at his church in Ireland, Scott asked staff to “bleed CCV,” Finney said. Scott also required staff members to tithe, asking Finney to report to him any staff or leaders who weren’t giving 10% of their income to the church. Then Scott would call out people he didn’t think were generous enough in staff meetings, she added.
Or worse, he’d use staff members to attack each other, Edmondson alleged. Scott required staff to write up harsh criticisms of each other, asking staff to redo them if they didn’t give enough criticism, she said.
Body Type Personalities
Scott wanted to see a church filled with leaders—but only leaders matching certain personality types identified using something called bioenergetics, said Cynthia Andrews.
The bioenergetics Scott used is based on the teachings of Scottish speaker Jim McNeish, OMS teaches that different body types—slender, those with sunken chests, heavy, athletic—are tied to personalities.
Scott’s least favorite body type was “Type 3 men or women,” who have large torsos and thin legs, according to a recording TRR obtained from a June 2021 Vineyard Anaheim staff meeting. This “wrong type” is likely “sowing the seeds for the demise” of a ministry, Scott said 29 minutes into the recording, and is power-hungry and forceful.
In 2019, Scott fired a church secretary simply because she had a Type 3 body, said Cynthia Andrews.
The staff member, Anna Earl, told TRR that HR representative Greg Scherer told her she was doing a great job. But just two months into her job, the church fired Earl.
Earl said she asked her supervisor, Stephanie Hurst, why she was being fired. Hurst reportedly told Earl that Scott claimed God had told him that Earl wasn’t supposed to be on staff. Earl said she hadn’t had a single conversation with Scott when this happened.
Hurst did not respond to a TRR request for comment. However, Scherer said Earl’s contract wasn’t renewed because the church decided to do away with her position.
But Andrews said Scott told her that Earl was a Type 3 body type, so she wasn’t “our culture.”
Andrews added that Scott also said Debrianna DeBolt, wife of well-known worship drummer Noah DeBolt, was a Type 3.
The DeBolts, who both served at the church, told TRR that they had raised concerns about Scott’s teachings with both Scott and Jeremy Riddle, a well-known worship leader and Vineyard Anaheim staff member.
Not long after, Riddle said in a voice message compartido con TRR that the DeBolts should probably resign and “rest.”
The DeBolts told TRR that they left Vineyard Anaheim confused, wondering what they’d done wrong.
Jeremy Riddle didn’t respond to TRR request for comment on this situation.
Scherer said Dwelling Place doesn’t discriminate against body types, and that Scherer himself is a type 3.
“I understand people are looking for explanations to cover pain, but it’s just not true,” Scherer said.
Increased pressure to perform
By 2019, Vineyard Anaheim was growing, reaching around 1,200 by the end of the year, Andrews said. Jeremy Riddle, had joined the staff and people were beginning to take notice. But then 2020 hit, attendance plummeted, and Scott reportedly initiated conversion quotas.
In 2021, the numbers were still down to about 800, Cynthia Andrews said. Her husband, Bradley Andrews, said Scott prophesied that in two years, the church would grow to 20,000. And Scott made growth a stipulation for everyone who wanted to keep their jobs, Cynthia Andrews said.
At the five-minute mark in a recorded June 2021 staff meeting, Scott said, “Anytime you throw challenge at leaders they say, ‘I was made to be a martyr . . . I want to lay down my life.’ . . . Leaders are like, ‘Give me a war.’ If leaders can’t find a war they’ll make a war . . . Otherwise what are you leading? You’re not taking any territory at all.”
En a separate Oct. 19, 2021 staff meeting recording at the 11:42 mark, Scott tells staff, “I need you to step up . . . If it’s not growing . . . you’ve got to do your own fasting. If you haven’t caught it this time around, this is the last pass.”
During this time, Edmondson said she witnessed Scott push out more than a dozen people. She was afraid of making a mistake, scared of “numbers dropping,” she said.
“He wanted it to be a house and a symbol of revival, and it wasn’t happening,” Edmondson said. “ He turned up the heat. He wanted the American dream.”
In a June 2021 journal entry Edmondson shared with TRR, she wrote, “New people keep coming in, some with previous church hurt. And they come in so excited for what the Lord is doing and for the leadership of this house. How it’s so ‘different’ from their past experiences. And all I can think of is RUN.”
By March 2022, Cynthia Andrews said she reported Scott’s “toxic” and “abusive” leadership to HR volunteer Greg Scherer. She said she told Scherer she was “scared” of Scott. Scherer acknowledged Scott’s toxic behaviors, Andrews said, and said he was scared of Scott, too.
However, Scherer told TRR that no one formally reported Scott’s abuse and characterized his interactions with people like Andrews as “nothing other than conversations in hallways.”
Scott enacts strict purity guidelines
With pressure mounting for revival, Scott instituted strict purity guidelines for his church, Andrews said.
An 18-year-old intern told Andrews that she’d had sex with her boyfriend before her internship started. Scott’s new, more stringent guidelines demanded that Andrews turn the woman into Scott for her past sexual history.
Andrews said the woman was repentant, but Scott removed her from the internship anyway. Scott also reportedly told Andrews that the woman could attend church only if she confessed before the staff what she did “in detail.” The woman refused and left, Andrews said.
In 2021, Scott required his staff to ask volunteers if they had ever masturbated, Andrews said. Scott said if they’d masturbated within the past year, the volunteers would have to wait a year to volunteer, Andrews said.
Andrews told Scott she wasn’t comfortable asking her 19-year-old male volunteer about masturbation. Scott insisted, so Andrews did it and the man cried, while confessing to her, Andrews said.
Then, Scott seemingly changed his mind and said that because Scott had masturbated until he was 21, he could make an exception for this man until he turned 21, Andrews said.
By late 2021, Edmondson was struggling with the toxicity. Like Andrews, she said she’d tried to report her concerns to HR with no change. In March 2022—right after Vineyard Anaheim left VUSA—Edmondson said she’d lost confidence in the board being able to hold Scott accountable and she resigned.
Multiple investigations but no resolution
Last November, concerns raised about Vineyard Anaheim compelled Vineyard USA to engage Guidepost Solutions to conduct a Vineyard-wide institutional assessment, which is ongoing, said Nicole Dill, VUSA communications director. VCUKI and Causeway Coast Vineyard have also jointly launched a third-party investigation into allegations about Scott, which is also ongoing, according to their statement.
VUSA also turned over the allegations about Scott to Dwelling Place’s leadership “multiple times,” according to VUSA’s statement. But Dwelling Place reportedly isn’t cooperating and has told VUSA that it has no right to get involved.
Dwelling Place also launched an investigation led by attorney Gina Miller with law firm Snell and Wilmer, according to an email exchange between Dwelling Place, Bradley Andrews, and Miller. Snell and Wilmer is the same law firm that is defending Scott in the suit with former Vineyard Anaheim members. The Dwelling Place board emailed TRR stating their investigation “found nothing worthy of further investigation.”
The board added, “We further believe that ongoing vague secondhand rumors of offense should be handled in a biblical manner with those involved, not in the media.”
Former staff, however, say they’ve exhausted all other means of holding Scott accountable and now believe going public is their only recourse. Edmondson said it grieves her to publicly call Scott to account, but she believes it’s necessary for the health of the church.
“If we want to see the church made new, we need to start over and call others to true repentance and restoration,” Edmondson said. “Revival is not coming in the way I anticipated, but I still hope maybe this could bring around what we were expecting in the first place.”
*Correction: The original version of this story incorrectly stated that Claire Edmondson is John Wimber’s granddaughter. The story has also been updated to correctly identify where the Scotts’ earlier church was founded.
Rebecca Hopkins es una periodista radicada en Colorado.
Spanish 
English
80 Respuestas
As a member of Vineyard Anaheim from 1991-2020, my heart breaks over what has happened. Just a small note of correction: Claire Edmonson is not the granddaughter of John Wimber, but the great niece by marriage. (Her grandmother, Penny Fulton, is the siter of Carol Wimber.)
Thank you. We have made the correction.
The Vineyard, like too many churches, doesn’t care about the strongarm behavior of their leaders as long as their churches are growing. That applies also to the National Director of Vineyard USA, Jay Pathak.
How does this also apply to Jay Pathak?
Like Alan Scott, if you disagree with Jay Pathak you lose your role in the Vineyard. Jay has blown up way too many leaders and pastors and does not handle conflict beyond cutting people off but his churches grow so no one cares.
Known Jay since 1994, worked alongside him, served under his leadership, have been mentored by him. I hope that I can someday be as good at staying connected with folks as he has. He has challenged me to remain connected to former ministry colleagues or family I have had relational difficulty.
I as well as hundreds of other folks who worked with Jay in Columbus Ohio have the highest regard for Jay’s embodied integrity. One only needs to go to the Vineyard USAs website to see how Jay has led with integrity and transparency.
I’m so grateful for the Roys report serving as a layer of public accountability for the body of Christ, and I’m grateful to be part of a movement that is aggressively evolving in the creation and implication of accountability structures, especially when observing the recalcitrance of fundamentalist and nationalist denominations and indie churches to do the same.
Jeff Cannell
pastor principal
Central Vineyard Church
Columbus OH
Jeff- thank you for your comment. Having met Jay a few times, we can only agree with your comments. What a humble and generous person.
It it important to investigate any allegations in the church and we pray for those looking into dwelling place and the leadership. May each person who has suffered find a healthy church community where they can heal and know God’s love.
If Alan Scott is truly the man of God he claims to be, he should give everything back to the Vineyard and start afresh. Abraham could let Lot have the good land because he knew that God was with him to bless him. If Mr Scott is unwilling to do this, then one likely explanation for his behavior is that rather than having faith in God he is putting his trust in the idols of money and power.
Forgive me if I’m being a little naive, but people would do better to read and study the Word of God and from there determine what is right and wrong–in God’s eyes, not in the eyes of dictatorial and misguided leaders.
I agree that we need truth from God. A big issue is that manipulative pastors like Alan warp the way people interpret the scriptures they read and that dictates how they think about God, themselves, and everything around them. It takes incredible to discern to know what is wrong when you’re under their influence, but very easy to see the moment you step out from them.
This is what occurs when hurt people take a position of influence with zero accountability. There needs to be a deep work of pruning in the Vineyard.
How would an organization that affirms direct revelation from God (ie, prophecy), an organization BUILT on this as a distinctive, create accountability for people who claim to hear from God?
We were members here. None of this surprises me. God started to reveal the ugly truth to us while we were still members. It just got so weird during Covid. Alan seemed to be tormented. Every sermon was about mental illness it seemed. We couldn’t really relate. Holy Spirit made it very clear that something was very wrong in this church. We left.
My husband and I were members of CCV and all Alan Scott preached on was about mental health. We were treated very badly by him but thankfully God helped us heal and move on.
I blame this on John Wimber. He made a real priority of promoting Church Growth, as in numbers, as a key priority. It was never on promoting Church Quality. Jesus did a lot with 12 even though one was a snake. But American thinking treats that with a lot of contempt. I remember when my pastors came back from a pastor’s conference in the 80’s. Everyone was comparing numbers in attendance and budgets with each other. Even then I knew that was very carnal. See where that kind of priority leads…
I was a member of the Anaheim Vineyard from 1980 until February 2022. Upon the Scott’s arrival, I along with everyone else were glad to have them and everything seemed great! Alan is a gifted communicator, smart, good teacher, but as time went on he just did not seem like a very kind man. He would say some demeaning and unkind things about our past leadership and especially about our benevolence ministry. I thought it odd and many friends and long time members started leaving. He used to come right out and say things will be different and some will not like it. In retrospect, he was telling the truth.
My wife started voicing her displeasure too, but I felt we should stay. It was shocking to receive Alan’s e-mail on a Friday night announcing we were leaving the Vineyard. My phone calls and numerous e-mails asking why we are leaving were ignored. It’s been a very sad and painful experience looking for a new church. My heart especially goes out to the Fultons and Carol Wimber.
If Alan Scott really is hearing from God and doing His will may the Dwelling Place be blessed. And if he isn’t, may God still use what happened for His glory and purpose.
John has been gone for 26 years and his priority was always about making disciples for Christ and teaching them how to “do-the-stuff”; praying for the sick, feeding the poor, etc. etc.
There are always 2 sides to the story. I am not taking either side here. But i would love to understand the full picture
No—there are not always two sides to the story. That’s a fallacy, rendering any judicial system almost unnecessary—or, at best, biased upfront. Please rethink.
Alan is a very dangerous man and those around him are unsafe, it’s like living in chernobyl and expecting not to get poisoned. The sad thing is he will never take ownership. Narcissists cannot do this, its like asking a dolphin to be a lion. Impossible. I am so incredibly proud of everyone who has shared their stories whether in this piece or not! You are so heard and so so believed!
Rebekah, I attended the Vineyard Anaheim for many years from the high school days to its present location. I left for a while but returned in 2006 and The Dwelling Place Anaheim is still my church today.
I live on a fact based belief system and view each change of my life with an analyst perspective of the change and its cause and effects. The following is based on my experiences in the compassion ministry, small groups, and volunteer help with the Dwelling Place church. I have relationships and know many of the plaintiffs and defendants. The following is true and factual. No conjectures or hypothesis as exhibited in the many comments:
• The church attendance has grown from just under 400 in 2017 to 1400 in 2020 pre-Covid to approximately 1000 plus today after Covid, based on my personal counts on my own accord.
• Alan, during an evening Sunday service, said there were people here with foot ailment conditions. I was suffering from a swollen bursa sac on the bottom of the ball of my foot. He asked us to stand for healing. I stood and during prayer, the sac completely disappeared. Still get tears in my eyes as I write this. It wasn’t Allan but God’s mercy on me.
• I asked many of the old Vineyardites who still attend why they are still here, most answers were; “I feel the Holy Spirit here,” “God is here,” “something is happening and God’s is moving….”
• Alan, Kathryn, Jeremy and Katie day in and day out are observed with a desire to love and worship Jesus Christ with all their hearts and souls.
• The only conspiracy and spiritual abuse I have seen is by those who have written things here that frankly, Jesus would not write in this post about others.
[Bill Herrin] “He asked us to stand for healing. I stood and during prayer, the sac completely disappeared. Still get tears in my eyes as I write this.”
Do you have any proof or verification of this – for example, a visit to a doctor and his notes or a test result to confirm this?
There’s actually 3 sides to every story… What one person says, what the other says, and the truth. In this article, we only have one side – so who are we to act as judge, jury, and executioner? I know many people who love the Scott’s, so I think it’s best we all take a deep breath and relax here before destroying someone’s name.
Jim, this is sad and sorry thinking. These people tried to speak about these things for years and were shut down by people like you. If half of this true it doesn’t matter if you know people who like the Scotts. It needs to be stopped, and he needs to step down.
In this case, it’s obvious he is still the building to doing his own thing and God is not going to bless someone they betray lie deceive he is a thief
There is so much I could say but legally any vineyard church can freely leave the the movement and maintain the real estate. Many did that the difference is because the Anaheim location is significant as it’s John Wimber’s. Regarding Alan Scott this is really really troubling to hear about his questionable and sometimes ungodly leadership. Using God’s name to manipulate is one of the things that turn people off from charismatic churches unfortunately. I am very curious to see the outcome of the investigation led by vineyard USA. Finally I think we should investigate more about the role of Banning Liebscher.
They have people bringing allegations going back from 1996 (see the letter in article link) in 3 different countries… Alan step down…
Dravis, I attended the Vineyard Anaheim for many years from the high school days to its present location. I left for a while but returned in 2006 and The Dwelling Place Anaheim is still my church today.
I live on a fact based belief system and view each change of my life with an analyst perspective of the change and its cause and effects. The following is based on my experiences in the compassion ministry, small groups, and volunteer help with the Dwelling Place church. I have relationships and know many of the plaintiffs and defendants. The following is true and factual. No conjectures or hypothesis as exhibited in the many comments:
• The church attendance has grown from just under 400 in 2017 to 1400 in 2020 pre-Covid to approximately 1000 plus today after Covid, based on my personal counts on my own accord.
• Alan, during an evening Sunday service, said there were people here with foot ailment conditions. I was suffering from a swollen bursa sac on the bottom of the ball of my foot. He asked us to stand for healing. I stood and during prayer, the sac completely disappeared. Still get tears in my eyes as I write this. It wasn’t Allan but God’s mercy on me.
• I asked many of the old Vineyardites who still attend why they are still here, most answers were; “I feel the Holy Spirit here,” “God is here,” “something is happening and God’s is moving….”
• Alan, Kathryn, Jeremy and Katie day in and day out are observed with a desire to love and worship Jesus Christ with all their hearts and souls.
• The only conspiracy and spiritual abuse I have seen is by those who have written things here that frankly, Jesus would not write in this post about others.
Alan’s emphasis on authority & hierarchy are cult like…
From what I understand, things began to fall apart in the VCF very soon after John Wimber’s passing in late ’97-early ’98 [date unsure]. The leaders began wandering from John’s initial vision of non-ownership of property to buying up buildings and properties, and gathering in believers. Their ads in the early days were “loving God, loving others.” This article clearly shows that they – at least what was the flagship congregation – has moved towards “loving money, loving property, loving numbers.”
Thats an unfair characterization. We bought that property under John, and there was no culture of “loving money, loving property, loving numbers” until after the Scotts arrives. I never heard anyone obsess about numbers before then. The pastor between John and Alan wasn’t perfect, but he loved the congregation well. When Alan came, he saw it as his duty to grow the congregation, yet he didn’t really give two cents about those of us already there. He had his vision for new church, and he literally said, “If you don’t like it, there’s the door.”
My wife and I were leading worship for the vineyard Anaheim right up until the point that the Scotts came in. They destroyed the entire culture and community that was already here that God had already given this region. The arrogance that is come from both Alan and Jeremy needs to be exposed. They uprooted and displaced and scattered many sons and daughters. What a shame that it has come to this my friends. It’s a shame that your children are paying for the lack of structure and the lack of love.
I feel horrible for these families of Alan and Jeremy because this type of abuse doesn’t just happen inside of the church.
It’s taught at home.
Claiming abuse at home is a wild accusation to make. Especially for Jeremy, who nobody said a single bad word about. Other people dragging Banning into this need to relax as well. We better than this my brothers in Christ!
Spiritual and emotional abuse are common in religious homes. It’s not a wild claim.
Actually, Noah DeBolt has specifically spoken about Jeremy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rngNODO4ZKg
Exactly Isaiah, and Alan even admits that he intentionally drove people out in order to create a new culture. He didn’t want the church he was hired to pastor; he wanted the building so he could bring in new people and create his own church. https://youtu.be/i6lRtZ1ixI0?t=650
Wow. My previous church, on Fremont Street in Galesburg IL, had a board member who said if we didn’t like the kind of music that was being played, we should not let the door hit us on the way out. My last day there.
Really, Deanna, an unfair characterization? Stop. Lance Pittluck was a monsterous, evil, and took the Anaheim out of Vineyard years and years before Alan showed up.
The only difference is that Lance left up the sign. The church culture was ALWAYS about nepotism, money, and power….do I need to remind you of all the scandals? The Ponzi scheme that left a few people dead (and a lot without their life savings).
The sexual abuse coverups, the excommunication, the firing of anyone who spoke against Lance….it’s insane to hear people like you as if you weren’t there…
I was there. My mom was on staff, I was married to Amy Deane (who was the assistant to the CFO at Westmoore where the 51 million dollar Ponzi was run by Anaheim people, Ed, Larry, Mike, etc., etc….) How many suicides again?
How many suicides under Alan?
How many people left the faith under Lance?
At least be honest, that place was a cesspool of nepotism, hatred, abuse, and every single thing that people are now calling out the Scotts about….it’s funny, Carol is mad at Alan, but why not be mad at Lance who called her daughter-in-law a bat who was in league with Satan?
Why not that? You know my mom was tasked by Lance to spy on Christy. I find that funny, luckily, she gave me her staff notes…hand written notes of Bert and Lance telling staff to have nothing to do with the Wimbers (of Vineyard YL). They were cursed by Lance and the national office (you know Bert’s kid left his pastorship recently?) Vineyard is evil, Alan is evil too, but you can’t fault him for leaving the corrupt Vineyard system.
Yes, Michael, it is an unfair characterization. I also was on staff under Lance. I knew your mom, and your ex-wife, both wonderful, loving, kind women. The “cesspool” you are describing is a product of your imagination. Most of us knew the church as a loving community.
Add em’ up…..
Salvation quotas
Secret insights
Ability to hear what people are saying about him in their own homes
Making decisions and claiming it is God’s Sovereignty
Determining who is “Marked or Seared by God”
Self proclaimed “Spiritual Father”
Ability to know others sins without ever meeting them
Performs Loyalty tests
Classifies people by Body Types
False Purity culture proponent
Refuses to answer media requests from TRR
Doesn’t pass the smell test for me, a true man of God uses Biblical principals
None of these are
“Doesn’t pass the smell test for me, a true man of God uses Biblical principals
None of these are.”
It ticks many boxes in the cult test…..
You know people who like the Scott’s? There is 11 people represented in this (and more coming from the glance at Twitter) this article goes back from 1996 with patterns of spiritual abuse.DPA has their spokesperson who went on record in this article, HR Greg Scherer.
Not only that, they included DPA’s investigation and they “didn’t find anything”.
Not only that Alans board is: Jeremy, banning, and Greg… come on bro.
You know people who likes the Scott’s is such a sorry argument at this point.
Your perspective is how a guy like Alan keeps abusing people. Rethink and wake up.
11 people in a church of hundreds that don’t like the Scott’s? Jesus had 1 out of 12 of his closest friends that didn’t like him… I’d say they’re doing alright.
11 people willing to come forward Martin. 100s of people liked Jim Jones & look where that ended up, when youre in a controlling abusive system you dont always come forward. You should try empathy, it looks really good on people. God bless.
I don’t know them but as a reader It’s not “not like the scotts” if they did half of these things he needs to step down. The false investigation they ran, the lack of real board… “They’re doing alright”. It’s clear you probably have skin in the game. And you should reevaluate.
I’m always entertained by prophets going back to the seventies and how people hang onto their every word. Or too afraid to challenge their unfulfilled prophecies. If these prophecies which are mostly wild guesses came to fruition I’d be more of a supporter. But since (fill in the blank number of prophetic utterances not full filled) I find we must be true to scripture. The OT is very specific about prophecy that it’s absolute without error. to the false prophets (all of them) maybe the OT needs to apply. So what do I do with all the rocks and which false prophets do we visit first. Please someone name me five grifters who claim to be prophets that even got a few prophecy right vs just a wild guess. Reminder the so called prophets predicted Trump winning in 2016. So did most of the bookies in Las Vegas. Enough people. Small groups people. Close the mega churches. Have weekly Sunday school for families not able to meet on Sundays. Our children need the education for their spiritual future.
It took a lot of courage for the victims to speak up. I’m sorry this happened to them. This shouldn’t have ever happened to them. I hope this article will help other victims to feel comfortable to go public. I’ll make sure to spread the article so others will be made aware of how these volunteers/ employees were mistreated in the name of God. It’s not the victims fault.
My wife and I visited a Vineyard Church when looking for a church and knew nothing about them. As visitors they prophesied over us from the pulpit. When they asked if what they said was accurate we said no. Then they tried to convince us that there were portions that were correct and we said no. Rushed out after service, stay clear of the Vineyard Church.
I knew Alan and Kathryn Scott for many years. My family was part of the church which they helped lead in Northern Ireland as well as the Vineyard Church in Glasgow referenced in the article.
I simply do not recognize the picture of Alan portrayed in this article. Alan is a wise and gentle man who has brought significant positive change to the communities in which he has lived and worshipped.
As well as being a gifted biblical teacher and leader, Alan has lived, modeled and encouraged a practical expression of genuine Christian love and compassion in his community. His churches have fed the hungry, helped the poor and assisted the broken in ways which should be an example to us all. Without in any way compromising the true gospel message of salvation through Christ alone, he and his teams have been a shining beacon for what can happen when God’s people live out their faith in the community in real, practical, selfless ways.
As someone noted above, there are often 2 sides to a story and there certainly is a very different narrative available in this case for those who want to hear it..
You should listen to the Audio recordings posted in the article and see if you recognize that man. Telling his staff to step up in growth or they’re going to be fired.. it’s linked. This perspective is why people don’t speak up. Because someone thinks they know something different.
Thank you for sharing this perspective. You speak for many.
For years we suffered manipulation and spiritual abuse. Bad leaders would claim, “The Lord told me ________.” It would be hard to prove otherwise, and it is godly to obey the leadership God has put in place unless the are willfully, consistently contrary to God.
God DID say these things about abusive leaders…
See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ. (Colossians 2:8)
Therefore an overseer *must be above reproach,* the husband of one wife, sober-minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, not a drunkard, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. (1 Timothy 3:2-3)
The greatest among you will be your servant. For *those who exalt themselves will be humbled,* and those who humble themselves will be exalted. (Matthew 23:11-12)
They are men of depraved minds, who, as far as the faith is concerned, *are rejected.* But they will not get very far because, as in the case of those men, their folly will be clear to everyone. (2 Timothy 3:8b-9)
But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, *bringing upon themselves swift destruction.* And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of truth will be blasphemed. And in their greed they will exploit you with false words. *Their condemnation from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.* (2 Peter 2:1-3)
But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, *let him be accursed.* (Galatians 1:8)
John, I attended the Vineyard Anaheim for many years from the high school days to its present location. I left for a while but returned in 2006 and The Dwelling Place Anaheim is still my church today.
I live on a fact based belief system and view each change of my life with an analyst perspective of the change and its cause and effects. The following is based on my experiences in the compassion ministry, small groups, and volunteer help with the Dwelling Place church. I have relationships and know many of the plaintiffs and defendants. The following is true and factual. No conjectures or hypothesis as exhibited in the many comments:
• The church attendance has grown from just under 400 in 2017 to 1400 in 2020 pre-Covid to approximately 1000 plus today after Covid, based on my personal counts on my own accord.
• Alan, during an evening Sunday service, said there were people here with foot ailment conditions. I was suffering from a swollen bursa sac on the bottom of the ball of my foot. He asked us to stand for healing. I stood and during prayer, the sac completely disappeared. Still get tears in my eyes as I write this. It wasn’t Allan but God’s mercy on me.
• I asked many of the old Vineyardites who still attend why they are still here, most answers were; “I feel the Holy Spirit here,” “God is here,” “something is happening and God’s is moving….”
• Alan, Kathryn, Jeremy and Katie day in and day out are observed with a desire to love and worship Jesus Christ with all their hearts and souls.
• The only conspiracy and spiritual abuse I have seen is by those who have written things here that frankly, Jesus would not write in this post about others.
Bill, I’m so thankful to hear about your healing. Praising God with you for that with you.
I was part of a church that swelled from about 600 to 2,000 a few years back. We and many others endured deceit and suffered abuse from top leadership. It was a toxic leadership culture with a lot of secrecy. I’m not sure you can co-relate church growth with church health.
“I feel the Holy Spirit here.” I’m always cautious about feelings. The Bible says to test all things. When I went to Bible school the leaders from the platform had the students do all sorts of crazy, non-Biblical things like use our arms as the”tomahawk of the Holy Spirit.” I watched hundreds of students do anything they were told with excitement. One day our guest speaker announced it was the second coming of Jesus and it would be at the campus. People were so thrilled and worship “felt” intense. Of course this never happened. No rebuke or clarification from the school.
As far as leaders and how they appear to others, the pastor at the church I mentioned earlier was a fabulous teacher. He appeared to be generous. He is still a sought after national speaker. I suspect others like me who were “behind the curtain” saw how he regularly flat out lied and threw people under the bus, anyone he perceived as a threat. But to the average churchgoer with no real relationship with him, he came off as a saint.
So I’m glad you have had a good experience with your church, but it’s painfully obvious many others have been hurt. May God guide you in how to handle how you relate to your church community in so much turmoil.
Sorry about my earlier posting as a reply under different people’s statements as it was only to ensure the person I wanted to reach out to would see my message. I couldn’t quite figure out everyone’s anger about posting my message to each one.
On another note, I have worked behind the scenes with virtually every person on staff since Alan and Kathryn arrived at our doorstep. The ones who shout spiritual abuse are friends of mine and have confided with me their feelings. I have friends at the new Vineyard Anaheim down the street at the Bray’s business and hundreds and hundreds at the Dwelling Place Anaheim.
With skills I acquired in my career, I’ve scoured every possible area of open source and thorough interviews for evidence of any civil and criminal wrongdoings. I also found nothing to validate any of the complainant’s allegations of spiritual abuse. Believe me, I am unbridled in seeking the truth and hate wrongdoing, and would never be manipulated or stand for it be it Alan Scott or Lance Pitluck.
All I know is what I see and receive at the Dwelling Place during the Sunday and Wednesday worship services…. love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, and gentleness. Please attend and find out for yourself. See the fruits of God’s work. Isn’t that the barometer we are supposed to gauge any dwelling place of God?
Bill, you consistently post the same thing multiple times, this doesn’t make it truth! In a way it’s a form of gaslighting or manipulation.
I happen to be friends with ex-members and ex-staff and as hard as it is to believe, second had information or bad information about people you love and respect, there’s a good chance a lot of it is true. Especially, if this information is consistent and from several different sources.
We put pastors on pedestals and make them idols in a sense. They become people who can do no wrong and anyone who says different is a liar or hater. We need to take of our glasses sometimes to get a new look!
Sorry about my earlier posting as a reply under different people’s statements as it was only to ensure the person I wanted to reach out to would see my message. I couldn’t quite figure out everyone’s anger about posting my message to each one.
On another note, I have worked behind the scenes with virtually every person on staff since Alan and Kathryn arrived at our doorstep. The ones who shout spiritual abuse are friends of mine and have confided with me their feelings. I have friends at the new Vineyard Anaheim down the street at the Bray’s business and hundreds and hundreds at the Dwelling Place Anaheim.
With skills I acquired in my career, I’ve scoured every possible area of open source and thorough interviews for evidence of any civil and criminal wrongdoings. I also found nothing to validate any of the complainant’s allegations of spiritual abuse. Believe me, I’m unbridled in seeking the truth and hate wrongdoing, and would never be manipulated or stand for it be it Alan Scott or Lance Pitluck.
All I know is what I see and receive at the Dwelling Place during the Sunday and Wednesday worship services…. love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, and gentleness. Please attend and find out for yourself. See the fruits of God’s work. Isn’t that the barometer we are supposed to gauge any dwelling place of God?
So stealing millions from the Vineyard isn’t conspiracy and abuse? If all the rest is false, this isn’t. This Alan Scott fella, and his sidekick Jeremy, are wolves. What they are doing is sinful, sick, and abusive.
Bill, if you are analytical you should listen to the audio. Specifically, the end when he says he doesn’t hire people based on their body type and remember this is a church these people are talking about. Also, it’s sad that so many people who still attend think numbers are a sign of health… yourself included. These audio receipts are terrible, what did this man say in even more private settings? Let Alan speak for Alan, & he’s speaking. You should reconsider, brother. Get outside help, because you have been fooled. I am glad the Lord healed you, but it is not a statement supporting this spiritual behavior. Praise God these people are speaking out!
I have no idea if any of this is true… But why is it that anytime there’s an issue raised in church people in the comments immediately jump straight to “cult”? Linking the Scott’s to Jim Jones is a bigger stretch than Gumby doing the splits.
It is possible for us to disagree without wild accusations.
Hi Sally, it is likely you have heard the oft repeated analogy “If it walks like a duck, and quacks , and looks like a duck….then it is a duck” This is the answer to your question of why people jump straight to “cult” .
That applies here to many of us who remember Jim Jones, David Koresh et al and simultaneously recall the many who died because they were manipulated into thinking these false prophets were to be trusted. Some of the people came to their senses and tried to escape and did, some did not and were killed on the spot. The Scott’s are not accused of murder or anything criminal nor is that being suggested. Please don’t ignore the obvious though……..due to the treatment many ex believers have expressed thus far, they run from the church , silently leave, disappear from the people they loved to associate with and never trust a church again in their life.
Thinking deeper…..if I was judged by my body type, told by email that I am longer allowed to attend the church by a guy who is supposed to be a “shepherd” but acts like a dictator and won’t even reply to try and restore fellowship, told I have Salvation quotas to achieve …..I’d leave immediately
Where there is dark billowing smoke , there is always a huge fire behind it.
I attended the Vineyard Anaheim for many years from the high school days to its present location. I left for a while but returned in 2006 and The Dwelling Place Anaheim is still my church today.
The uprising and vitriol toward the Scott’s started. I live on a fact based belief system and view each change of my life with an analyst perspective of the change and its cause and effects. The following is based on my experiences as a compassion ministry volunteer, small groups, and volunteer member of the Dwelling Place church. During my time at the church and relationships with many of the plaintiffs and defendants I find the following facts:
• The church attendance has grown from just under 400 in 2017 to 1400 in 2020 pre-Covid to approximately 1000 plus today after Covid, based on my personal counts on my own accord.
• Allan, during an evening Sunday service, said there were people here with foot ailment conditions. I was suffering from a swollen bursa sac on the bottom of the ball of my foot. He asked us to stand for healing. I stood and during prayer, the sac completely disappeared. Still get tears in my eyes as I write this. It wasn’t Allan but God’s mercy on me.
• I asked many of the old Vineyardites who still attend why they are still here, most answers were; “I feel the Holy Spirit here,” “God is here,” “something is happening and God’s is moving….”
• Alan, Kathryn, Jeremy and Katie day in and day out only observed desire is to love and worship Jesus Christ with all their hearts and souls.
• The only conspiracy and spiritual abuse I have seen is by those who have written things here that frankly, Jesus would not write in this post about others.
Listen to this AUDIO people who are doubting! How are people still attending here? This is one meeting!
“I don’t hire type 3s. They’re good people, but they often have an agenda under the surface. Your body posture and body type tells you how you’ve behaved throughout life and is the best predictor for future behavior.”
Why does Bill Herrin keep on repeating the same stuff over and over again. Doing this shows a lack of integrity ! (UK Vineyard member)
God Bless you Simon, someday soon, hopefully when you are not standing in front of our Lord and Savior, you will know the truth and understand what really happened.
I listened to the type 3 person recording and never heard a word about body types. Perhaps he was talking about type 3 people who are organized, decisive, hard working, probably like Martha. Did I miss something there, because I didn’t hear him say body type. I think what Alan is doing is very wrong, though. I think he and Jeremy are very greedy to do this.
Hi Jim, I listened too and alan is speaking in the context of those who know what he’s saying that’s why it’s in this staff meeting. He’s saying he doesn’t want certain people to do certain things based on body but really it’s just a tool he’s using to control. I attended his leadership labs he hosted for the whole church in the evenings in the year of 2021 and he would talk about body types using 1,2,3 etc. and say he used it prophetically. I have that recording and re listened and it’s very bad now hearing both. He said he could tell who was pastoral or not based on looking at us and our body types. So I was listening with more context. Try to listen to both audios in the article and you get the gist. What the article here is showing is It’s the way he spiritualized everything to justify his own beliefs. It’s very crazy and scary. I am sure there is going to be more material released. This guy is manipulative
1:16:00 John Mumford build the church based on rugby physique
1:16:27
I don’t hire 3’s ( doubles down on the matter even harder at the end)
This man is unhinged…
I find this absolutely unbelievable if it’s true. It’s insane. Absolutely insane. Every single person at that church needs to get out now. Can you imagine Jesus talking this way about body types. I’m still having trouble believing this. It’s beyond insane. People should speak out immediately when stuff like this happens. There needs to be a nationwide body of elders to silence these people immediately. A nationwide council of elders that people can go to and speak freely. I still can’t believe this in a way. It’s so absurd. What if Jesus had this body type? What if Paul did? I know Paul was short, balding, and stocky. There’s a chance he had this body type. He certainly wasn’t a tall handsome type. I need to go throw up now. If Jeremy and Alan get this money, I pray God takes it a way. I used to watch Jeremy on Bethel and had a sense that something was off with him. Something was shallow.
Believe me when I say this Jim, my husband and I nearly lost our faith because of the things Alan Scott put us through in CCV. We had to leave and we were abandoned by all our so called Christian friends in his church.
Others of us in a similar church situation in the Vineyard movement can testify that this leadership style has parallels from the very top to the lower ranks. Not all pastors of course but there is a theme going on here
Can I ask how you reached out to Martyn Smith?
I found his current ministry website here: http://www.kingdomenterprise.org.uk/martyn-and-linda . I confirmed that this was his current ministry information from a source who knows Martyn. I used the contact form to reach out to him with my questions about the specific situation I included in the article. I received an automatic reply back from that contact form, so I know it went through. I received no other response.
This saga is just too crazy and worldly to be called Christian. Accusations, stealing, in-fighting, extreme arrogance and pride, public lawsuits among church leaders, (see Galatians 5). And you think you can ‘start this one over’? This tree-rot begins at its root. Cutting it down permanently might work. Then, go and really start over – elsewhere with all new people – or merge / absorb it into another church. (So sorry folks, but I have to leave now. This stink is starting to stick.)