This weekend, men at the Stronger Men’s Conference, hosted by Pastor John Lindell and James River Church in Springfield, Missouri, witnessed quite the spectacle of what evangelicalism has become.
The conference opened with an act by “bad boy” Alex Magala, a daredevil sword-swallower who moonlights as a pole-dancing striptease artist at gay nightclubs. The next day, disgraced, bully pastor Mark Driscoll slammed the “strip” act as exhibiting the “Jezebel spirit”—and then got “Matthew 18ed” and booted off the stage by Pastor Lindell.
The annual Stronger Men’s Conferences have always bordered on the ridiculous, mixing Christianity with professional bull riding, monster trucks, boxing, and other shows of masculinity. But Magala’s performance was the worst act yet, revealing Lindell’s inexcusable lack of discernment and the depths to which he’ll stoop to attract a crowd.
It was so bad, Driscoll unloaded when he took the stage.
“The Jezebel spirit opened our event,” Driscoll said, after explaining he was hoarse because he had been up since 1 a.m. praying. “. . . Before the word of God was opened, there was a platform. It was a high place. On it was a pole, an Asherah. The same thing that’s used in a strip club for women, who have the Jezebel spirit to seduce men.
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“In front of that was a man, who ripped his shirt off like a woman does in front of a pole at a strip club. That man then ascended. See, our God is not arrogant. He doesn’t ascend. Our God is humble. He descends.”
Lindell then shouted, “You’re out of line, Mark!”
Driscoll continued for about a half-sentence. But when Lindell shouted, “Mark!” Driscoll responded, “Okay, Pastor John, I’ll receive that.”
“You’re done!” Lindell shouted, and Mark walked off stage.
Lindell then took the stage as the crowd loudly objected and even began chanting, “Bring him back! Bring him back!”
But Lindell cleverly brought the crowd under control.
“Mark is out of line,” Lindell said. “If Mark wanted to say that, he should have said it to me first. Matthew 18! Matthew 18! If your brother offends you, go to him privately.”
Lindell then said he had talked to Driscoll for a half-hour, but Driscoll hadn’t said a thing about his offense.
“You may not agree with me. You may not agree with him. But we are brothers in Christ. And there’s a right way to handle disagreement. And I’m just telling you, I’m not going to sit back and watch somebody do publicly what they should have done privately. And as a pastor and a man of God, I’ll call another man of God out.”
See video of the interaction below:
The irony
Public confrontation between two megachurch pastors is pretty uncommon. This is especially the case when one of the pastors, Driscoll, is largely discredited within evangelicalism for his bullying and deceit—and the other, Lindell, is one of the few megas still willing to associate with him.
But what happened at the conference is also unprecedented. As one person commented on social media, “If disqualified @PastorMark has to rebuke your church, it’s time to close the doors immediately. This is ‘church’ now, rock concerts and strip shows.”
If disqualified @PastorMark has to rebuke your church, it’s time to close the doors immediately. This is “church” now, rock concerts and strip shows. https://t.co/31eVN64Ihe
— GotKidsNoPeace (@peace_got) April 15, 2024
As someone who’s reported extensively on Driscoll and spoken to many who have been profoundly harmed by him, I agree with that sentiment. Driscoll is bad. But Lindell may be equally bad. And his conference is an embarrassment to the gospel.
But what really struck me about the fiasco this weekend was the irony of it all. Here was Driscoll—a master manipulator and spiritual abuser, who had used Matthew 18 numerous times to control and manipulate people—getting Matthew 18ed by another pastor!
For those not familiar with Matthew 18, the passage tells anyone with a personal offence to take his offence first to the person who offended him, one on one. If the person won’t listen, take one or two others to confront him. If the person still refuses to listen, tell it to the church. And if he won’t listen to the church, “let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.”
The passage concerns personal offenses, not the misconduct of pastors and Christian leaders. For that, turn to 1 Timothy 5:20, which instructs the church to rebuke sinning elders “in the presence of all, so that others may stand in fear.”
Yet, spiritual abusers routinely use Matthew 18 to keep misconduct and scandal from becoming public.
For example, Mike Bickle and other leaders at the International House of Prayer in Kansas City (IHOPKC) regularly used Matthew 18 to silence those who accused Bickle of clergy sexual abuse.
When former IHOPKC leader Dwayne Roberts came to then-IHOPKC Executive Director Stuart Greaves with allegations of Bickle’s sexual abuse, Greaves reportedly refused to meet with Roberts. Greaves instead instructed Roberts to conduct a “Matthew 18 process” and confront Bickle one on one.
Similarly, Bickle insisted that the husband of his main “Jane Doe” victim meet one on one with Bickle and not bring any witnesses.
This is absurd and incredibly manipulative, but it’s often effective in containing allegations and scandal. It’s likely why the abuse of Bickle, Driscoll, and so many other powerful pastors stay hidden for so long. Abusive pastors weaponize Matthew 18 and employ it regularly.
So, in August 2014, as allegations of Driscoll’s bullying and abuse at his former Mars Hill Church were finally reaching a boiling point, Driscoll employed Matthew 18 to try and shame whistleblowers into silence.
“I want to thank those who have come directly to an elder, lead pastor, or me to tell us of an offense they are carrying,” Driscoll told his congregation when announcing his pending leave of absence. “This allows us to deal with it head on between the two affected parties, rather than in a court of public opinion and public media. I believe God is honored by this approach—the approach He prescribed for us in Matthew 18 and other Scriptures.
“Others have chosen to air their grievances with me or this church in a more public forum. . . . Lately, the number of accusations, combined with their public nature, makes it much more difficult to know how to respond appropriately.”
What Driscoll said sounds spiritual—just as what Pastor Lindell said to conference-goers last weekend sounded spiritual, as well. But it’s not. The only thing spiritual about it is that it’s spiritual abuse. It’s twisting Scripture to shame and control people.
Yet, it was hard to feel sympathy for Driscoll when Lindell gave him a taste of his own medicine last weekend. As Galatians 6:7 says, “. . . A man reaps what he sows.”
But that wasn’t the only irony playing out last weekend. Over the years, Driscoll has become known as one of the most vulgar and sexually graphic pastors in evangelicalism. So, for him to self-righteously call out a bawdy act at a Christian event was super ironic.
This is the man who called women “penis homes” and whose sermons in Scotland were so vulgar, he was asked not to return to the country. (While there, Driscoll reportedly commanded women to give men oral sex.)
In his book, “Real Marriage,” Driscoll condones sodomy, while admitting it’s more common today “due to the increase in pornography.”
Driscoll also was known as the “cussing pastor” due to his foul mouth, and even began a sermon once with, “F*** you!” Though he’s publicly apologized for some of this language, former staff at Driscoll’s new Trinity Church told me he uses the f-word frequently and berates his staff, saying they lack “balls” and are “p-ssies.”
Driscoll is not a righteous man, calling a generation to holiness. He is a cruel, crass, and misogynist bully, who last weekend, went after his favorite targets—gays and men he thinks mimic women.
Though many of us share Driscoll’s disgust over a stripper at a Christian conference, it doesn’t change the fact that Driscoll is a disqualified pastor, who’s harmed scores of people with whom he’s never tried to reconcile.
I get a bit nervous when I see people commenting on X that they admire Driscoll’s “integrity" y "courage,” and that he’s a needed, “strong prophetic and corrective” voice. If these people really think this, then they likely haven’t done their homework, or their heads are buried in the sand.
Don’t criticize those with ‘anointing’
But apparently, Driscoll and Lindell, despite their public brouhaha, have made amends. Later in the conference, the two appeared on stage together and gushed over one another.
Lindell likened Driscoll to John the Baptist and called him the “Spurgeon of our day”—a reference to famous Baptist preacher Charles Spurgeon.
Driscoll got emotional talking about how Lindell had been a great friend to him during “one of the hardest seasons of my life.” And he called the Stronger Men’s Conference “one of the greatest men’s events . . . in the country right now.”
Stunningly, neither pastor addressed the issue that had divided them. Lindell didn’t apologize for inviting Magala, but instead downplayed the importance of the issue, saying the two men agreed about what was important.
Similarly, Driscoll said, “The things that matter, we agree on.” Driscoll also apologized for not talking to Lindell, “the father of the house,” about airing his convictions, so Lindell “could give me a thumbs up or down.”
So apparently, having a stripper at a Christian men’s event doesn’t matter to Driscoll, after all. What matters is following the chain of command. Why? Because abusive pastors don’t ultimately care about the gospel, or saving the culture, or upholding holiness; they care about control.
Lindell showed his true colors too.
“Here’s the thing,” he said, addressing the audience. “You have to be careful that you do not criticize people who have the anointing of God on them. Better to say nothing. Because what happens is, once you begin to criticize somebody who has the anointing on them, you’re in the flesh. And once you’re in the flesh, then you’re moving toward unbelief. And once you move toward unbelief, then you live a barren life spiritually.”
And this highlights the final irony of the past weekend—that for all the bravado and hype, the Stronger Men’s Conference isn’t about empowering men to act. It’s about grooming them to be weaker and more subservient—not to God, but to their abusive, male pastors.
Julie Roys es una reportera de investigación veterana y fundadora de The Roys Report. Anteriormente, también presentó un programa de entrevistas nacional en Moody Radio Network, llamado Up for Debate, y ha trabajado como reportera de televisión para una filial de CBS. Sus artículos han aparecido en numerosas publicaciones periódicas.
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79 Respuestas
This entire thing is a living demonstration of the sickness that permeates American evangelicalism in our day and time. No wonder so many are infatuated with folks like Driscoll, Lindell, and even Trump. They are exhibitionists with no moral center and in our image-driven age, they set the tone in outrageous ways. These “leaders” merely reflect back to us the cultural seduction of the church by the Enemy of our faith.
In the words of the very good movie…”Get Out”!!!!!!!…of these churches/conferences
preaching these toxic masculinity-destructive concepts. It helps no one…not the women in their lives or the men either. And Jesus doesn’t like it.
“Later in the conference, the two appeared on stage together and gushed over one another.”
Could the whole thing just have been a publicity stunt? You know, helping to get some good vibes going toward disgraced Driscoll?
Driscoll and Lindell have a lot in common. Neither of them are ‘anointed’. Neither of them display the fruit of the Spirit. Both of them should be disqualified from ministry. If Driscoll was rebuked like that in his church, a couple of his armed thug bodyguards would take the individual out. You can count on it.
I escaped the great Bill Gothard phenomena of the 70s. Saw the big Promise Keepers movement sweep the land. Someone once asked me if I was going to one of those PK events and I said, “My dad was a promise keeper before they turned it into a club and I don’t see the need for the big show.” Not to be cynical, but hopefully discerning, you can be a godly Christian man by not conforming to the latest Christian pop culture fad. At least that’s how I see it.
So much i could say but sadly Mark Driscoll’s popularity kept on rising. Getting more popular with charismatics and slowly getting in popularity with evangelicals. He is the man of the time, like Andrew Tate or Jordan Peterson he understands the trends (masculinity). We need more people, more links reminding how deceptive Mark has been since Mars Hill. This video has gone so viral and made Driscoll looking like a saint. James River Church is located nearby the HQ of the Assemblies of God. not great for the denomination. Dream CITY church another AOG seems to completely sinking to the political idolatry.
There is nothing Christian about any of this.
On the mark Linda. Clown show, yes. Christian, no.
I don’t see the problem. A former president of the United States in on trial for hush-money payments made to a porn star.
Most of U.S. white evangelicals will vote and support Trump even if he is convicted for a felony..
So having some Las Vegas entertainment at church sounds like evangelicals are just being consistent in their witness to the world.
But please do not tell me how much you love Jesus.
… and Gordon, unlike the way Driscoll and Lindell view due process, at least our former President is presumed innocent until proven guilty in an impartial court with an impartial jury. Sadly, like Driscoll did in his trial of Paul Petry and Bent Meyer, the trial has nothing to do with justice and everything to do with political expediency. So many white, hispanic, and black evangelicals will vote for the man because the verdict will be as tainted at the verdict was at Mars HIll Church and be meaningless. We will vote for him rather than for the evil agenda of the current administration without very much hesitation. If God teaches us anything that He loves justice (why Jesus died for us). He hates injustice and calls for the righteous to stand against it. He also calls for mercy and looked at the adulterer with compassion (not condemnation). Micah 6:8 ” He has shown you, oh man, what is good, and what does the Lord require of you? That you DO JUSTLY and love mercy, and walk humbly with your God.”
@Rob Smith
It is not illegal to pay a porn star $130,000. What is illegal is to cook the books to make it a business expense.
I find it interesting that the majority of evangelicals do not have an issue with either issue.
Not certain where you come from, but where I come from ethical business conduct is important. Not to mention personal integrity.
Spot on. Thank you for this. I cannot get over how quickly defenses rise in justifying the former president’s behaviors. Over this very incident and the subsequent manipulation of business records a woman I went to church with at the time (I no longer attend any) was close to tears, maintaing he was “baby Christian” and did not knowing this was wrong. I have read several similar ridiculous defenses several times on social media by self-proclaimed Christians. Good grief.
So Lee, do also presume guilty unless proven innocent? If a jury finds him innocent, will you renounce your position?
Gordon. Thanks for the response. We do believe in financial integrity. Many outstanding lawyers, including previous Attorney Generals of the US, do not agree with the charges, and you must agree that the possibility of this simply being political exists. But let me ask you, Do you believe the prosecutor, or the jury? Do you presume innocent until proven guilty?
For starters, prosecutors (especially at the Federal level) will not bring a case to trial unless they know that have enough evidence to have an almost certain shot at getting guilty verdicts on some of the charges. They will not put in all the man-hours and money for something that is not certain. That is what plea bargains are for.
Criminal trials for the most part have to have unanimous verdicts on the charges, so the prosecutors know they have to execute well. So the possibility of it being political is remote at best. Not to mention, they are aware of the inevitable appeal of the verdict.
I don’t understand your response. Gordon very clearly stated that Trump paid the porn star $130,000. I’ll add one of my own, *after he cheated on his pregnant wife with the porn star.*
You can disagree that he cooked the books, but doesn’t the first part bother you? Doesn’t my statement that he did all this while married to his pregnant wife bother you? His character as someone you want to worship as our President doesn’t matter, at all? Are you going to add the very tired line “We’re electing a President not a Pastor?”
If he’s found innocent of the financial charges, so what? He betrayed his wife and unborn child at their most vulnerable. I’m not much better, but I’m not trying to run for President either and have lots of us Evangelicals follow me. Why should we worship him as our political savior?
No, Biden is not an acceptable choice. But please, open your eyes, because Trump is not Saul, he’s not our savior, and you don’t need to keep making excuses for him.
Julie, great article.
I have never seen any of these men “Matt 18” each other nor “Matt 18” any of their errant congregants. Matt 18 calls for due process, during which witness are called, opportunities to repent (or defend oneself) are given, and eventually the entire church gets involved. It is methodical and fair.
These men use 1 Cor 5:5, not Matthew 18, and the sin is usually not a grievous sin like a man sleeping with his father’s wife, but merely dissing the top dog. In this instance, likely staged, Driscoll offended Lindell, as he clearly pointed out. Laughably he rebuked Driscoll for failing to take a Matt 18 approach as Lindell in his very rebuke fails to follow Matthew 18 himself. You cannot make this up! And Driscoll immediately yielded to the top dog and left the stage, thus showing his own church members back in Scottsdale how they are to kowtow to his authority.
In the “reconciliation” interview 30 minutes later, the Jezebel spirit that Driscoll had rebuked with furrowed brow was now irrelevant. What was relevant was that Driscoll humbly pointed out that the authority figure was not to be offended, and he was wrong to offend him, and that Lindell’s was the authority in his house.
Note, dear members of Trinity, you must obey Driscoll as the authority of your life.
This was the great offense of Elders Petry and Meyers, who faced a kangaroo court for what crime? Dissing the will of Driscoll by suggesting that proposed by-law changes were too drastic.
So my point is that to suggest that either of these men have Matt 18’nd anyone is sadly not true. They never will as biblical due process would show them to be false accusers of the brethren -which is rather devilish.
And in classic Driscoll fashion he still managed to blame a female (“Jezebel.”)
Yes. And had to go on to elaborate on what he claims females do. Driscoll outs himself. How is it he knows exactly what goes on with female strippers? And why bring women up at all? Seems there were no women there. Driscoll should have left women out of it, but that is how he rolls. Never miss an opportunity to disrespect and blame women. These guys are completely vacuous in every way. As the daughter of an Assemblies of God Pastor I am stunned at how far this male-dominated institution has fallen. One would think with the Chi Alpha sexual abuse scandal in Texas–in their largest District–there would be some self-awareness. Evidently not.
Lee, you are spot on! How does a “pastor” know what goes on in a strip club? And the regurgitation of teachings on the so-called Jezebel spirit will be the basis of many more women being abused. There is no way to prove the sin – it is simply the declaration of the abusive elder against a woman who merely ticks him off that will be the basis of her mistreatment, eventually leading her to be shunned. There is no many evils in the church than the practise of shunning these sinners. It is evil and violates ever biblical precept about justice and is an affront to the gospel.
Excellent article, especially the last sentence.
There’s a spiritual war going on as our nation is descending into chaos and evil around us, and the best Evangelicals can do is this ridiculous soap opera? What is wrong with us? We don’t have time for this!
One of my favorite quotes is this:
“…As far as things go spiritually, I have delved deep into the rabbit hole that is Modern Culture and the more I find, the more I become convinced that True Christianity is hidden in the cracks and crannies, away from the public eyes. I accept this as reality, as Jesus said that many will be deceived, and few will be saved.”