Do’s and Don’ts of Healing From Trauma

SPEAKERS

Julie Roys, PHIL MONROE

PHIL MONROE  00:04

Once you’ve experienced trauma, how do you heal? What do you look for in a counselor? What kind of therapy is right for you? And how do you take care of yourself as you begin your healing journey? Welcome to The Roys Report a podcast dedicated to reporting the truth and restoring the church. I’m Julie Roys, and on this podcast you’re going to hear a talk from our last RESTORE conference by Dr. Phil Monroe on the do’s and don’ts of healing. Phil is a trusted voice in the survivor community. He leads the counseling practice begun by Dr. Diane Langberg, a popular author and globally recognized trauma expert. Phil is an expert on trauma as well and leads the trauma healing Institute at the American Bible Society, and he’s a repeat speaker at RESTORE and someone whose wisdom and gentle demeanor has made him a favorite at the conference. But I especially appreciated his talk at the last RESTORE. So often I hear from people who knew they were traumatized and needed help. But sadly, they didn’t know how to find the help that they needed. They ended up in the care of someone who wasn’t qualified or able to help them. Or in some cases, the person who was supposed to help actually made their trauma worse. So, this is an incredibly important topic and one I’m eager for all of you to hear.

Julie Roys  01:18

But first I want to thank the sponsors of this podcast, Judson University and Marquardt of Barrington. If you’re looking for a top ranked Christian University, providing a caring community and an excellent college experience, Judson University is for you. Judson is located on 90 acres, just 40 miles west of Chicago in Elgin, Illinois. The school offers more than 60 majors, great leadership opportunities and strong financial aid. Plus, you can take classes online as well as in person. Judson University is shaping lives that shaped the world. For more information just go to JUDSONU.EDU. Also, if you’re looking for a quality new or used car, I highly recommend my friends at Marquardt of Barrington. Marquardt is a Buick GMC dealership where you can expect honesty, integrity, and transparency. That’s because the owners there Dan and Kurt Marquardt are men of integrity. To check them out. Just go to BUYACAR123.COM.

Julie Roys  02:21

Well, again, the talk you’re about to hear is from Dr. Phil Monroe from our last restore conference in October. Here’s his message on the do’s and don’ts of healing from trauma.

PHIL MONROE  02:32

It’s good to be here with you. And it is good to follow Carson and LoriAnne. Thank you for telling us your story. Thank you for shining light. It’s costly when you tell your story. Even when you tell your story in front of a group of safe people, it’s costly. And I bet some of you too, have been telling your story on the sides here of the room for coffee over lunch, and you’ve been telling parts of it. And you might find yourself at the end of this weekend exhausted. That’s normal. That’s what happens to us when we exert the energy to speak and to speak the unspeakable. So, I encourage you ,have compassion, take care of you. Think about what you’re going to be putting into your body and what you’re going to do the rest of this weekend when this conference is over. Because you will need recovery time. We all do. I also encourage you when the videos come out, play back Dr. Lena’s, Carson’s, and Lori Anne’s parts where they’re talking about how they recovered. Your journey will look different. It will be different; you have different stories, you have different guides, you have different geographies to traverse. But there’s goodness in there to hear again from them, what it’s been taking for them to heal, what did they need? What helped? This is the question that I get asked a lot and for why I came up here today.

PHIL MONROE  04:19

How do we know if we’re doing this journey right? This journey of healing it is a journey. Trauma is a wound that affects every part of your life. It hinders your ability to relate to your own self, much less your family, your friends, your community, and your faith. It takes a long time to heal. And it feels like this journey that we never wanted to be on that we never asked for, and we’re in this foreign land that doesn’t make any sense. And we’re both somehow equally alone on this journey, but with a whole bunch of people on the sidelines yelling advice to us. And some of it might be helpful. A lot of it probably isn’t. Right? So, this journey that you never wanted to be on takes energy and time. And so, let’s take a few moments to just talk about, how do we know if we’re doing it right? What is it supposed to be like this journey of healing? Carson talked this morning about, you know, doing it and feeling like he was making progress., and then going back down in the hole, I think LoriAnne said the same thing. This is what it feels like, we go a step forward, and 10 back. This is the healing journey. It’s normal, it’s natural. And you are doing it right.

PHIL MONROE  05:52

I want to give you a little bit of a preview about where we’re going. Well, I’ll talk about a few things, a few hooks to hang some ideas on. We’ll look at some of the myths that we believe that kind of interrupt our healing journey, we’ll look at some of the red flags, I’ll add to some of the things that LoriAnne said, some red flags about those helpers, those guides along the way that we should give pause to and consider whether or not that’s the right person for us. And then end with some ideas about all the therapies that are out there that you’ve heard, and what you might do in order to try to figure out what’s the right thing for me. Again, I’m not going to be able to tell you what that right thing is for you. But if we have some ideas, and things that can help us make that decision, then we might be in a better place.

PHIL MONROE  06:47

So, let’s start with three things that you can hang all of what we’re going to talk on, on what it means to be on the healing journey, three hooks that you need. These are three things that no matter what model you use, no matter what kind of guide you’re looking for, you probably need in your life. The very first thing is to take care of your body, to take care of you. Trauma affects every part of your life. It affects your body, your mind, your soul, your spirit, every bit of you has been impacted. And your number one activity is to take care of you. And to do it with compassion and curiosity. I’m going to repeat that a couple of times during our talk here, because I actually find it rather rare in our Christian environments. Somehow self-compassion sounds like self-ish. And curiosity seems dangerous, because we might ask  unlight questions, and we might come up with some answers of things that help that others think no, you can’t do that. You need to take care of this body of yours. It’s the only one you get. This has come to my attention more recently in the last couple of weeks, I hurt my back. You’ve seen me with a cane around here. This is a violation of my pride. So, I didn’t bring it up here. But I needed it. And what happened is, I thought I was younger than I was, and I carried around a heavy backpack for a lot of miles, and then paid the price a few days later. What happened to me was, my muscles went into contraction, and I was immobilized. And even as I began to the healing journey, and getting physical therapy and medications and understanding what was going on with me, I didn’t want to move, everything locked up. Any movement could bring that spasm back. And I needed guides and friends to say, you know, you can relax those other muscles that aren’t working right now. I had to tell myself this over and over again. I had to think about, what does my body need? My instinct was to actually not move in order to not hurt. But I needed to remember no actually, movement helps. As one of my friends says, motion is lotion. It keeps you moving so you can move more. Right? So, this is the small little trauma that I experienced that lasted for about a week and I’m still recovering from it. But imagine if your body has been impacted by decades of trauma, how much more compassion we need to have and curiosity? It didn’t do me any good to beat up my muscles and to tell them they shouldn’t be this way. Right? And it won’t do you any good to beat yourself up and think you should be better than you are. So, compassion and curiosity, finding out what helps it.

PHIL MONROE  10:05

Similarly to this and related to this is what LoriAnne was talking about finding stability in a triggering world. Finding stability is your job number one on repeat, how do I find stability? You know that first stage that she was talking about? safety and stabilization? it never ends, it’s not a stage that you do, and then you stop doing. You continue it. And even in a great weekend like this, where we’re talking and we’re naming truth, and you’re getting vocabulary that makes sense for you, and helps you understand your story and helps you communicate that to other people. Right? You still need to find stability, you still need safety, you need to think about the things that helped me come back to ground. LoriAnne demonstrated this, in through the nose, hold, out through the mouth. You’re communicating to your body that you’re here. And that you can remember to breathe.

PHIL MONROE  11:13

I’m pretty sure a bunch of you forgot to breathe during the last session. You held your breath. It’s normal, it’s what we do. But we can also remind ourselves to breathe, right? So, we take care of our bodies with curiosity and compassion, and we keep finding ground, we look for that stability. This is our main task. And it’s not because you have some disability. It’s because you’re coming back to truth, you’re coming back to present, you’re coming back to the reality of where your body is at this present time. So those two things, no matter what you do, you’ll be doing. And the third thing that you’re going to do with this as well, is to begin your story again. Somebody took your story, hijacked it, told you things that weren’t true, gave you false vocabulary, told you that you were the problem. That’s what DARVO is, right? You’re the problem. But in fact, actually, you’re not. And so, each day, you begin your story again. It’s the work of writing and rewriting the narrative of you.

PHIL MONROE  12:31

Again, this can sound very egocentric, but it is the job actually, that God gave you. And he gave Adam and Eve the job of naming things as they were. He gives this to you too, to name things, and to know who you are. So, no matter all the things that we’re saying here this weekend, and the things that might be helpful to you, don’t forget these things – take care of you, find ground and stability, and keep on with the naming of things as they are. And starting your story again. It has not ended, there is a chapter that you’re in. And we don’t know how that chapter is going to end. But we look for it with compassion, and curiosity.

PHIL MONROE  13:17

Now, these are the things that we want to do. But there are some barriers and boundaries that can get in the way, right? And some of those come from us, and some of those come from other people. So, I want to name these so that you have some thoughts about what are the things that could get in the way of my recovery of this journey and sort of take me down the wrong path? And so, let’s name a few of these myths.

PHIL MONROE  13:43

The first myth that I want to highlight is that we have some unhelpful views on what healing actually is. Right? And one of those unhelpful views is that healing should happen, and it should be all done and in the past, and that there should be no scars and no impacts in the future. I hear this over and over from my clients from other people who wonder, why is it that I still have triggers? You know, something happened today. I got a phone call. I got an email from somebody from my past, and I didn’t know what was in it, and I had that reaction. Carson mentioned this morning, something can happen, and he might spend a few hours being unable to work, he’s is transported to some previous experience. This, my friends, is part of the scars that we bear. It doesn’t mean it will always happen or at the same level of intensity. But you are changed. Imagine this you are an elite athlete, and you have a career at that level. and you get a knee injury. Some of us might get a knee injury, and we might get it repaired and we get back out there and we’re playing again. But we’re probably not playing with the same vigor and vim that we used to have, we have to do it differently. Other of us, the knee injury is so severe that it’s career-ending for being an elite athlete, and we have to navigate into other careers, other identities, right? So, one of the myths that we carry though is I should be healed, I shouldn’t be bothered, and I should be able to talk about trauma without having a reaction. My friends, this is not going to happen. You know things that you can’t unknow. In fact, if you did unknow them, you might be at greater risk to be harmed again. These are part of the treasures in dark places. And you bring those scars with you in your body. So, check with yourself. Do I have somewhat helpful views about what healing is? Let me add to these unhelpful views of healings. Healing means no grief. I’m going to tell you that grief and joy can commingle. Grief and happiness can commingle, grief and healing will commingle. A loss is a loss is a loss. Most of you in the stories I’ve heard have lost community. And when you come to certain times of the year, certain church traditions, certain things like this, you feel that grief deeply. That is not a sign that you haven’t healed. It’s a sign that you have grief and grief needs space to breathe. So again, watch about some of these unhelpful views of healing.

PHIL MONROE  13:46

How about another unhelpful view of healing? My faith should be exactly the same as it was. My friends, your faith is different. Read the Psalms, you will see the psalmist contending with things. I used to go out in front of the procession Psalm 42. In the procession, I used to be out at the front leading the way to worship. And you can see in the Psalm he’s saying, Not only am I not leading the way, but I have people accusing me and attacking me on the process. Where are you God? Well, this psalmist has a new worship tradition, lament. And lament is just as active and real and God-oriented as whatever great worship song you used to sing in a large community. Your faith has been changed, maybe for the better. But with scars and grief, but healing does not mean it looks like it used to.

PHIL MONROE  17:45

And lastly, one more myth about our healing is we sometimes slow our healing down when we fall prey to the belief that God wants me to suffer so that he could show me his goodness. Unfortunately, we hear all that outside. But we also sometimes take this in. And I think there’s some part of us that wants like, there’s got to be meaning here. If I can just know that something good that God is giving me is coming, then I can tolerate all this. And I’m telling you, God’s heart is broken and angry for what you’re going through. He is enraged by it. And he says in Malachi 4, that you will be like calves leaping coming out of the stall on the ashes of those oppressors. That’s going to happen. The belief that somehow the suffering that you’re going through is God’s wonderful plan for your life, is damaging. Now will good things come out of hard things? They often do, and many of you are testaments to that. The fact that you’re here is a testament to that.

PHIL MONROE  19:02

So, there are some of the myths. Let me talk about some of the red flags that can get in the way of our healing journey as well. Very similar to that if you have guides and helpers who want to make everything in your life spiritual, everything happening having a spiritual answer to it, that’s all wrapped up with a bow, guess what? Run! Job had friends like this. Job had friends like this and look at what God has to say about them at the end of that book. So, when you have guides that are wanting to make everything spiritual and give a nice happily ever after ending to that, then that might not be the right person for you. Coupled with that, when you articulate things about your faith that they don’t like, how do they respond? Do they want to correct you? fix it? challenge you? Not everything I say about my faith is correct, something a should be challenged. Maybe you’re hearing some now, but how they challenge that matters, right? When you feel like you’re not allowed to think something, believe something, feel something, that’s a sign this person might not be the right person for you.

PHIL MONROE  20:18

Another red flag, how focused are they on the techniques, the new technology? We’ll talk about that in a minute about the various counseling models, but how focused they are on doing stuff to you? If somebody seems way too interested in doing some new thing they learn to you, maybe that might not be the right person for you. And if you resist that, or you are flooded by what they’re doing, you are overwhelmed by it, do they notice? does it matter to them? You know, as a therapist, I can tell you, I’ve made a lot of mistakes in my career. Hopefully, I can see that they’re happening, or I’m told afterwards, and we have a corrective moment. Whereas I become the student again and learn what helps them. So, when somebody is doing something to you, or with you in a session, or telling you something and you’re not responding well to it, does it matter to them? Are they curious about you? Do they have compassion? Or are they irritable, defensive, explaining, talking too much, telling you why what they’re doing is actually the right thing, and that you should be thankful? These are signs that you might not have the right person. Along with that, is there a pressure to progress? Why aren’t you getting better faster, so that I can, as a therapist feel better about myself? Unfortunately, I love therapists, I am one I’ve been one for a long time, I supervise a bunch of great therapists. But I can tell you that not all of us are in this for the right reasons. And you can see that when somebody needs their clients to get better, faster, so that they feel better. How much do they talk about themselves? another red flag. If at the end of the session, you didn’t get to talk about the most important things that you came to talk about, that’s something you want to talk to them about, and see if they’re open to changing how they do things.

PHIL MONROE  22:24

And finally, last red flag, boundary crossings. You know, I’ve talked to many victims who are being helped by someone. And then they’re also then telling me oh, and by the way, I’m managing their books, I’m helping to write their books, I am helping in their practice, I am doing things. We call that boundary crossings. Look, therapists are people too, and they need friends, but not you. You need friends who aren’t your therapist. So here are some red flags, some myths that get into the way of their healing.

PHIL MONROE  23:12

So, let’s move at this point into talking a little bit more about some of the essential items that you do need. We gave three hooks at the beginning. remember? taking care of your body, right, the first one second one, finding ground and stability, and meaning making, rewriting your story again and again. Now let’s flesh that out a little bit. What will that look like? And as we end, at the end of this, we’ll be talking about some of those models that might be used. But again, the focus is not so much on the models, but the DNA, the kinds of things that show up in a particular form of therapy and healing activity. Like I said, I was going to repeat this – compassion and curiosity is an essential item that you take on this journey. I want to ask you, think for a moment, when you’re struggling, and then if you’re not traumatized, you love somebody who is, and you see them struggling. How often do you hear self-critical language come out of their mouth? What do you feel when you say those things? Defeated? discouraged? ashamed? hopeless? It’s interesting that we go there. It’s understandable that we go there. Because that’s the message that we are often given either implicitly or explicitly that you’re the problem. I said this last year here that when we are traumatized, we have two enduring questions that we ask over and over again, why? and how do I get out of this hell? And unfortunately when we’re traumatized, we come to the same answer for both questions, why? Because there’s something wrong with me. And how do I get out of this hell? And why am I not getting out of it? Because there’s something wrong with me. Right? So, compassion and curiosity need to be your friends. How can you begin to encourage that? Plant those seeds, ask your friends to look for that as well. They don’t need to give you long lectures about it. They just need to help you identify what is true about you. What is true about your body? What helps you feel just a little bit better? When you’re feeling overwhelmed by trauma, nothing feels like it will help you feel better. When I was in the throes of my biggest spasms, nothing seemed to help. But you know what? small movements did, and I had to accept that, you know what? it really is getting a little bit better. How about for you? What are those little things that only made me make it better 5%? Can you do it? Can you do it again? And can you begin to make that list of things that care for you? Maybe for you it’s some music. Maybe for you, it’s just going outside and looking at a leaf. What helps you just a little bit?

PHIL MONROE  26:27

Compassion and curiosity are necessary. It means not beating yourself up during or after something happened. Any more than you’d beat yourself up for having a migraine or back injury. Right? It’s exhausting to do this work. And it’s harder when other people around us are encouraging us to think less of ourselves. So, part of your compassion and curiosity may be distancing from some of those voices. Second thing you need with you on this journey is community. That’s been said multiple times. And I agree with LoriAnne Thompson as well that you also need a community outside of social media and digital community. There is some good in that community, as also we see lots of bad. Sometimes we feel heard and understood, we read somebody else’s story, and that helps us understand something about ourselves. That’s good. But that needs to be highly limited. You need real people that you can see who you can touch if you want to and allow them to touch you if you want them to. And who will listen to you say the same story, like Carson said, hundreds of times. You need this community. These are people who are committed to listening, rather than talking, cheerleader more than coach, right? Together, you and that community are going to be looking for life outside of trauma. That means you’re going for a walk together, that means you’re taking in a play, that means you’re listening to something, you’re exploring some creative arts. This community is essential. No one heals alone. You weren’t designed to be alone, and the damage was done in community. So, you’re going to need to find it. But it might be a community of two, rather than the big community that we have lost, right?

PHIL MONROE  28:28

Find a therapist and a professional. Thank you, LoriAnne, for saying that. I do believe in licensed mental health professionals. I also know that those people aren’t always the right for you. So, find someone who will be your guide who goes at your pace. Your pace is the most essential thing that matters here, not their pace. If you’re going too fast, they may ask you to slow down. And I love the image that you gave us, the slow down. But maybe we could say it a little quieter a little bit more gently. It’s okay to slow down. We want to get to the end really quickly. But oftentimes we cannot, but your pace matters. When you ask to slow down or not do something, how do they respond? Do they pressure you? Do they withdraw? Right? Do they give you too many words explaining themselves? Or are they curious about what’s happening in you right now and what might help right now? And one more thing about that professional. If you notice that they label your resistance and your reticence and your tendency is not to do something as refusal as a bad thing resistance, this is a concern. Your resistance is part of your healing. You see, trauma takes your voice and your power away from you. And you learning to use it and your no is essential. Maybe later you’ll say yes to something that you said No today, it doesn’t matter. So, watch out if your professional labels you as a resistor. Take that as a badge of goodness and find someone else.

PHIL MONROE  30:25

Two more little points here before we talk about models, but one limit yourself to others exposure, others trauma. We’ve had a lot of exposure to different trauma here. This is good for weekend, it’s not good for everyday life. With a little bit tongue-in-cheek, sometimes you might not want to read Julie’s next post. You know, it’s really good, somebody needs to read it, many people need to read it, but you might not need to read it today. When we listen to other people’s pain, it triggers our own reactions. And then we need to take care of ourselves. So, find your right pace and the right amount. And finally, finding life outside of trauma means finding all the opposites to trauma and making sure they’re in your life. If you had chaos, find order. If you had ugliness find beauty. If you had silence, find voice, right? What are the opposites that you need to have in your life on a regular basis?

PHIL MONROE  31:25

So, with that, let me take the last few minutes to talk about these various models. If you have thought about going to see a therapist, you’ve probably heard of all sorts of different models and ways of treating trauma. Right? You might have heard things about the difference between licensed and unlicensed biblical counseling, Christian counseling. You might have had things that are focused on I don’t know cognitive-behavior therapy, trauma-focused cognitive behavior therapy, DBT dialectical behavior therapy, prolonged exposure PE, EMDR, Eye Movement Desensitization Reprocessing, tapping, CPT, cognitive processing, brain spotting, narrative exposure therapy or NET, ACT, EMDR PFA, debriefing, somatic psychotherapies, neurofeedback. Or if you’re really on the cutting edge, you’re hearing all about ketamine, or transcranial brain stimulation, right? Acupressure, yoga, art, exercise, the list is long. And it’s overwhelming and confusing to those of us who are just looking for something to help. With this long list, you probably hear people said, This one here was a miracle for me. I’m so much better. And at the same time, you probably heard someone else say that same one didn’t work for me. It leaves us confused, doesn’t it? wondering, what can we do? Well, you can do a lot of work on Google, I’m not going to do that here. Some of them have a lot more scientific efficacy behind them. I will also warn you that sometimes when you get a disciple of a particular model, they promise a whole lot more than the original creators and the researchers of it did. So, watch out for somebody who has one single thing that will solve all your problems. It probably won’t.

PHIL MONROE  33:15

What do you need to see? And how might you process the information to find the right person? The first thing I want to say to you is interview your therapist. If you don’t have one, and you’re going to find one, interview them. Take that first session and make sure you have time to ask them questions or even before the first one. Ask them about what model do they approach? How do they deal with the different kinds of trauma out there? Who do they read? Who do they look for to help educate them? That doesn’t mean they are as good as those people they read, but it means something to you about what kind of background do they have? What do they know? And if they get resistant to you asking these questions, thank them and find someone else.

PHIL MONROE  34:04

When you get into a treatment, here are some things that you might see in all of those ones that I listed, that are essential to be there. A significant focus on grounding, calming, stabilizing. This is not just something you do in the first couple of sessions, and then move on to the deep dark part of your stories. It is something that needs to be a part of every session you do. And in fact, if you have someone who wants to get into your trauma story, and leaves you right up to the 59th Minute of a 60-minute session, and let you go out bleeding, so to speak, and not giving you time to recover in that session, that’s also a little bit problematic on our end, right? So, in your sessions you should see things that are about grounding and calming, and finding things that work for you. Obviously, there will be some exposure to the trauma story, right? And when that happens, do they leave you triggered, and distressed and overwhelmed? Or do they bring you back to the surface and back to the present in a way that helps you calm yourself again? There will be a narrative focus about who are you? Who is God? Who is the world? What are your strengths? things like that. There’ll be grief work. These are all parts of almost every one of these therapies that you have.

PHIL MONROE  35:31

But most important, not the model, but the interactions that you have with this therapist. Do you, at the end of the session, feel heard? Do you at the end of the session feel a little bit understood? Did you talk about the things that were important to you? Do you feel a growing sense of trust, even while you’re afraid of trusting again? Those are the messages that you want to listen to in your own body. Your therapist can’t do your healing for you. And they can’t know always how much pain you’re in. So, if you feel like this is not something we can talk about in the session, that could be a problem. So, look at those interactions that you’re having with them. Do they judge you? Do they get angry with you? dissatisfied with your resistance? Or do they actually take joy in saying this is great, I’m so glad you’re speaking up? What would work for you now?

PHIL MONROE  36:41

Friends, this journey that you’re on, the one that you never wanted to be on, is here in front of us, you’re not going to go back to your old way of life. There’ll come a day when you’ll be glad for that. But right now, it might be hard. It’s going to take time. This is your grief. But journeys do also bring us to new friends, bring us to new vistas, to new observations, to seeing a little bit of our aliveness in a new way. I think you heard that from Carson and LoriAnne capture that snapshot. You know, Psalm 19 tells us, the heavens declare the glory of God, the sky’s display his craftsmanship. The psalmist is saying creation reminds me of God’s goodness. In fact, it says that they speak without words and their message is clear. Creation. You are God’s creation. You speak a message even when you don’t speak,. Your presence here speaks that message. Never forget. And never let anybody else tell you anything else. But you declare the glory of God, even when you’re in a pool of your own tears.

Julie Roys  38:02

What an affirming message and that’s so true. So often when we’ve experienced trauma, we feel broken and damaged. And we are but so was our Savior. And our brokenness doesn’t make us any less beautiful in some ways, especially as God begins to heal what’s broken. Those wounds in our history become part of what’s especially beautiful about us. Well, again, that message is from our last RESTORE conference, and we’ll be announcing the next RESTORE soon. So be listening for that. And as I’m sure you’re aware, many groups charge for conference talks like the one you just heard, but we’ve decided to make them available free of charge because we believe the content is so necessary for the restoration and health of the church. Yet producing these videos costs money as did bringing in experts to speak at RESTORE. So, if you appreciate this ministry, would you please help us out by donating to help us offset these costs to give just go to JULIEROYS.COM/DONATE. Also, just a quick reminder to subscribe to The Roys Report on Apple podcasts, Google podcasts or Spotify. That way you won’t miss any of these episodes. And while you’re at it, I’d really appreciate it if you’d help us spread the word about the podcast by leaving a review. And then please share the podcast on social media so more people can hear about this great content. Again, thanks for joining me today. Hope you were blessed and encouraged.