Speaking at The Master’s Seminary last week, well-known author and pastor John MacArthur urged seminarians not to speak at conferences with women speakers, even though he’s done that repeatedly in the past.
“There’s a line at which you can’t cross because someone is blatantly disobedient to Scripture,” MacArthur said. “That would be, you won’t see me on a panoply of speakers that includes women because that is a total violation of Scripture—when you have men and women preachers. I can’t do that because . . . your reputation at that point becomes very muddy.”
The comments were offered during a sesión de preguntas y respuestas at the seminary on May 2, and seemed to echo MacArthur’s sentiments in 2019 when he told Bible teacher Beth Moore to “Go home.” MacArthur also recently told a female YouTuber critical of Calvinism to “keep her thoughts to herself.” And, as El Informe Roys (TRR) has extensively reported, MacArthur has an alleged pattern of protecting child abusers tiempo punishing female abuse victims.
Despite this, MacArthur has spoken at conferences with women speakers on at least two occasions.
In 2015, MacArthur invited a woman—Joni Eareckson Tada—to speak at his controversial “Strange Fire” conference, denouncing charismatics. Tada taught from Scripture on the topic of healing.
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Joni Eareckson Tado speaking at MacArthur’s Strange Fire conference:
MacArthur also spoke alongside Tada at the 2008 Ligonier National Conference. Like MacArthur, Tada gave two messages at that conference—one on “Good News in a Fallen World” and another on “Proclaiming the Gospel to All Nations.”
Joni Eareckson Tada speaking at 2008 Ligonier National Conference:
MacArthur open to charismatics & proponents of infant baptism
Despite his hard line on women preachers, MacArthur said he otherwise would be willing to appear with most anyone he believes is a Christian but has different views on non-essential doctrines. (MacArthur said he would not share the stage with anyone who denies essential doctrines, like the Trinity or the deity of Christ.)
“If the person is a true believer, then the Lord allowed him into the kingdom,” MacArthur said. “And if you’re in the kingdom, I have to figure out a way to work with you.”
MacArthur then noted that he spoke at Ligonier conferences, even though he disagreed with Ligonier founder RC Sproul en infant baptism y Covenant Theology. MacArthur also noted that at the late Pastor Jack Hayford’s invitation, MacArthur spoke at a pastor’s conference for the Foursquare denomination and “charismatics.”
MacArthur urged the seminarians to be “gracious and loving and unifying and helpful to others who are in the kingdom.” He added that as long as a pastor establishes his “own fidelity” by openly stating his positions on disputed doctrines, “people don’t question your associations.”
“I mean, if I’m at Ligonier, nobody thinks I abandoned what I believe,” MacArthur continued. “If I went over to Jack Hayford’s church and do the pastors’ conference of Foursquare and charismatics, nobody felt that I had abandoned my non-charismatic view. I’ve got too much in print on that.”
John MacArthur at Q&A Session at The Master’s Seminary:
The comments are surprising, coming after MacArthur’s wholesale denunciation of charismatics in 2013. That’s when MacArthur published a book called, “Strange Fire,” and hosted a conference by the same name.
In the book, MacArthur claims the charismatic movement “blasphemes” the Holy Spirit. And at his Strange Fire conference, MacArthur implied that charismatics aren’t true Christians.
Now, MacArthur seems more concerned about egalitarians, who believe women can be preachers, and those who are too accommodating of culture. In addition to not speaking alongside women preachers, MacArthur said he would also not speak at an event with “anyone who’s so tapped into the culture that they’re viewed as a problem outside tolerable convictions.”
“I wouldn’t speak in the same place as Bill Hybels or Joel Osteen,” MacArthur said. Hybels has not spoken at any conferences since resigning from his church five years ago in the wake of multiple allegations of sexual misconduct.
MacArthur told James MacDonald he ‘betrayed’ his followers
MacArthur also made what appeared to be a reference James MacDonald’s decision to invite T.D. Jakes, a proponent of a heresy called modalism, to the Elephant Room 2 Conference in 2012.
Como El Informe Roys (TRR) exclusively reported three years ago, MacArthur told leaders at the Moody Bible Institute in 2012 that he would not speak at Moody’s upcoming Founders Week if MacDonald was going to speak there, too. MacArthur ended up speaking at Founder’s Week that year, but MacDonald did not.
MacDonald has since been fired from his church for alleged bullying, deception, and financial misconduct. Last month, authorities in California charged MacDonald with felony assault and battery for allegedly attacking a 59-year-old woman.
“If you compromise along the way, then . . . people are questioning you,” MacArthur told the seminary students. “I had that conversation with James MacDonald one day. It was not a happy one. But I said, ‘You just betrayed all the people who have been listening to you for years by what you did. You basically said to them, I’m not who you think I am.’ . . . (MacDonald) didn’t like that. But it was true.”
Julie Roys es una reportera de investigación veterana y fundadora de The Roys Report. Anteriormente, también presentó un programa de entrevistas nacional en Moody Radio Network, llamado Up for Debate, y ha trabajado como reportera de televisión para una filial de CBS. Sus artículos han aparecido en numerosas publicaciones periódicas.
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I’m not sure I would share the stage with someone who believed you could take the mark of the beast and still be saved.
He’s so self righteous. Reminds me of this verse:
Luke18:9-14
9 To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’
13 “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’
14 “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”
Is there even actually a Biblical justification for the existence of, or example of “conferences” and “conference speakers”? Does the Bible tell us how much the sanctified fees should be for a speaker? I say, what’s up with all the superstardom amongst so many people who identify as Christian? (JM included.) Conference stars are not biblical pastors or preachers and “events” are not church. I don’t care if the majority of people who identify as Christians want to make issue with this whole who’s allowed to speak thing (I’d say they have too much time in their hands), and then to try to force it on others while sitting on their holy high horses. I don’t care because these people are not in spiritual fellowship with me. For spiritual leaders IN my life whom I know and trust, those who know me and who I know personally–these are the men and women I can hold to account. Not JM or any other conference speakers who don’t know me and whom I don’t know. They are of no more importance to me than any other actor or politician on a stage–they are generally all of the same ilk.
Joni Eareckson Tada isn’t a pastor. John MacArthur was saying he won’t be at a conference with women pastors.
Beth Moore also isn’t a pastor. MacArthur is not being consistent. It depends on if the person ticks off all the right boxes on his score sheet.
It’s about women teaching men (1 Timothy 2:12). Why does MacArthur permit Joni but not Beth?
It’s because Joni wasn’t teaching. She was just giving a personal message about how she became saved. MacArthur lets women teach in Sunday school and speak to people at services from the pulpit. He just doesn’t let women become pastors.
Furthermore, Beth Moore has always been clear that she is a women’s Bible study leader. Even during her SBC days at First Baptist in Houston, her class was a women’s Bible study. She founded and established Living Proof as a women’s ministry.
However, men started attending her classes and events. Is she to stop what she’s doing as soon as a man is in the room? Has anyone asked these men why they felt compelled to attend Beth’s classes and events?
You were right! I imagine JONI has spoken at Sunday morning services in churches with no problem
True Scripture does forbid women to be pastors however this is a conference I am now fully convinced that MacArthur has stepped over from Biblical patriarchy to misogyny he really needs to look in the mirror before it’s too late and repent of his many unrepentant sins
so 1 timothy 3 is not “true scripture” now?
Yes Julie, I totally agree. You have stated the bottom line. He was forthcoming with the truth when he spoke to James McD and now someone needs to speak the truth to him in like manner.
So, women are excluded from the Great Commission’s 4 verbs?
He’s so self righteous. It reminds me of this verse:
Luke 18:9-14
9 To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’
13 “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’
14 “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”
Mac clearly says “women pastors.” The headline is inflamatory and
a clear distortion of the facts. He holds to a biblical view, which I believe is scripturally supported, and he holds fast to that view.
Writing a sensational headline which paints him as a hypocrit, on this issue is sinful. Objective journalism demands more than this. Is Mac a sinner? Of course, and he admits it. Does he need to repent? Yes.
However, your personal anti-Mac feud reflects badly on the CHURCH. Satan is smiling. LORD JESUS directs our hearts to take the higher road. Prayers for you both.
MacArthur first says he won’t appear at an event with women “speakers.” On second reference, he says women “preachers.” (He never says women “pastors.”) MacArthur seems to use the terms interchangeably.
I’m not sure what you’re referring to when you say MacArthur holds to a “biblical view.” I’ve heard all sort of splitting hairs on this issue.
Some say MacArthur was okay with Tada speaking because she was only giving her testimony, not teaching Scripture. Of course, that’s clearly not the case if you listen to the clips or the full messages from Tada. She was teaching Scripture and doing it quite well. Others say MacArthur was okay with Tada speaking because she’s not a preacher. Of course, neither was Beth Moore, but that didn’t seem to matter.
What seems to be the case is that MacArthur is getting increasingly hard line on this issue. His sermon he gave in 2019 argued it’s “shameful” for women to speak in church. They should be silent and speak only if in groups of all women. I encourage you to listen to it: https://www.gty.org/library/sermons-library/81-56/does-the-bible-permit-a-woman-to-preach
If he believes the Great Commission includes women, then yes, it’s hypocrisy.
Honestly this is starting to seem profoundly subjective in nature, thus not journalistic. Joni has never been a pastor and is a hardline complementarian. She came to our church a while back with her husband Ken and spoke to that very question. I just purchased your book and wanted to find out about Julie Roys. After reading your book and this article in particular. Is this really newsworthy or a personal issue for you? It seems subjective. How would an article written as this one fall under the podcast with Dr Campbell? It actually seems antithetical to the tenor of your podcast with your examples of Moody (Charismatics) and other examples. Second, this does not follow the mission you state for your podcasts “RESTORING THE CHURCH”. Help me understand.
I’m not sure I can help you understand because I’m confused about your questions. I’m not sure what you mean about the article falling under my podcast with Campbell, or how it’s antithetical to examples I gave about Moody/charismatics. I’m just not following.
But, as for whether this is newsworthy… Absolutely, it is. It fits at least 3 newsworthy elements in this list–timliness, prominence & conflict. https://www.unomaha.edu/office-of-strategic-marketing-and-communications/public-relations/what-is-newsworthy.php.
And, as for restoring the church… I believe sunlight is the best disinfectant. So, I report the truth about what’s happening in evangelicalism, trusting that it will lead to reform. Hope that’s helpful.
There were healthy examples by your guest in that podcast. They brought actual meat to the bone of the church. With actual biblical thoughts. I disagree with some of the analysis. Yet I agreed with some as well. For Christians who do not understand the Bible and the the constitution politics or Trump worship is idolatry. However the context of the text and the content of his agenda may not fit in an equation. Our allegiance is to Christ and His Church. At the same time we are responsible for our choice including elections.
This story comes off as another angle to get John MacArthur. I totally disagree with his hermeneutical approach to Israel and the church as well as eschatology. However, there has been a lot of good that his ministry has brought to the church. The story about his study Bible is a stretch. I have 1 old GTY series on a “Jet Tour through Revelation”. His sermon had an introduction with a host. They were giving his Bible away to first time contacts to his ministry. To which he was clear that he did not write every footnote (especially the O.T. Notes) He said he reviewed the notes. However he was straight up that he had a lot of help. What about others who have an honorary degree. Such as David Jeremiah, Joe Stowell and Chuck Swindoll. Would not consistency be a good disinfectant? Also could you give a linear article to the MacArthur events it seems out of order.
good grief…talk about running in circles to deflect from the entire point being made in the article
Julie Roy’s,
This is a great and accurate article. I very much enjoyed reading it and fully believe it’s very news worthy.
I remember years ago, picking up a copy of JM’s book, “Strange Fire,” and paging through it. I soon found out that JM was blatantly accusing me and all Pentecostal/ Charismatics, of being non-believing heathens. He was basically mocking and demonizing those who spoke with other tongues or were used in the gifts of the Spirit.
John MacArthur is constantly judging others by his own standards. Also, many times, as pointed out by you, Julie Roys, and other who have shared their opinions on here, he is, and has been, very inconsistent when throwing out his opinions.
Even as what John (MacArthur) appears to believe and be and do, is not what I could identify with or be led by, I appreciate what of his Christian testimony I have had exposure to. Appreciate because it has a degree of transparency that allows me to get a fix on one Christian’s dynamics of belief and faith. As the biggest challenge I face, is interfacing my sense of Bible and God and Jesus, with the complex forest that is the range of complexly rooted Christian understandings.
So, for example. John says: ““If the person is a true believer, then the Lord allowed him into the kingdom,” MacArthur said. “And if you’re in the kingdom, I have to figure out a way to work with you.”” The fulcrum here is what John understands and teaches as “Lord” and “kingdom. As I read this, in the context of the JR article, I reflexively get it that John and I here disagree. I seeing John as reifying God and what can fulcrum in faith in God, to an almost worldly degree, whereas I never go beyond the individual giving over to a faith action concerning God and the Biblical frame of reference. One could then say that this condition is so for John, because his faith and Biblical understanding is the greater and stronger; and that’s a fair argument. But I cannot follow him into that understanding, because I see Christianity as a collection of individuals engaging in belief and faith action, because I pretty much see all such actions as equal and as manifesting God in some way.
MacArthur: “Now there’s a line at which you can’t cross because someone is blatantly disobedient to scripture. That would be: you won’t see me on a panoply of speakers that includes women because that is a total violation of scripture.”
It appears he cannot imagine any possibility that he is misinterpreting Scripture as prohibiting women preachers. So, he misjudges their conduct as blatant disobedience.
Contrast this, from the website of Sam Storms, TGC Council member and a past President of the Evangelical Theological Society: “I am a Complementarian, but I recognize this to be a secondary issue. There are numerous godly, God-fearing, Bible-believing Christians on both sides of this issue who simply have a difference of interpretive opinion on those texts where the issue is addressed in Scripture.”
The real acid test of JMs views lay in whether he would be just as critical of women speakers who openly supports Calvinism in the way that Alana does not. I suspect he would be silent on that matter. If he hates women giving their views so much perhaps he should refuse them the chance of buying his Bibles and books. After all, by doing so they are expressing an opinion of their own.
I love John MacArthur. If I have a friend who says they are a Christian but isn’t living like it I will probably give them one of his books such as “The Gospel According to Jesus ” or something along those lines. He is going to be one of the brightest stars in heaven, I believe, oversights and sins notwithstanding.
I am not going to parse out the details of his exhortation to not speak with women speakers here. Too many leaders in evangelicalism give credence to people with questionable or fuzzy doctrine and in doing so perpetrate their errors. John MacArthur does his best to not do so.
Isn’t there something in the Bible about the first being last? I’ve gotten to the point that I wonder if all these big name celebrity Christians will be in the nose bleed section of heaven and the brightest stars will be someone who on earth had no celebrity, no name recognition, no financial wealth, etc. Perhaps someone who spent his or her earthly existence as the poorest farmer in the poorest tribe in Africa, but loved and served everyone in the community. It’s interesting to consider.
Eh, I’m not sure someone who employed, excused and protected child molesters will be “one of the brightest stars in heaven”, nor will someone who regularly denegrates his sisters in Christ. If this is where his “sound doctrine” leads, I for one have zero interested in following.
True!!! I do not care about anything he says about any subject. His ideas are null and void. Any man who exposes women and children to unrepentant abuse needs to be removed from the pulpit. He will not get my support.
Woman are not to be pastors – that is scriptural. Tada is not a Pastor so can’t agree with Julie on that one. Also Beth Moore is a false teacher, I think that is what prompted Mac to say what he did. I have some issues with Mac but I wouldn’t go do far to say he has issues per say with women.
James, do you take all scriptures in the Bible literally?
Clearly not, since there is “literally” no passage of Scripture that “literally” addresses the topic of women as pastors.
Only if you take Scripture out of context. Scripture does not say that.
Makes me sad but not surprised.
Just another “Christian leader” who is more concerned about being known for doctrinal purity in non essentials then for demonstrating the fruits of the spirit.
Panels, Mr. MacArthur, not “panoplies.”
So he will find a way to get along with anyone the Lord has let into His kingdom- unless it’s a woman. Sometimes one wonders: is it His(the Lord’s) kingdom or his(John’s)?
My impression is that Mr. MacArthur and many other religious Big Cheeses believe that God is very determined to keep women down.
MacArthur’s answer in the Q&A went very well, I thought, until he started getting weird about women.
I’m glad to read that John believes there are some doctrines that aren’t essential. My question to him would be, why didn’t Christ address this creation order thing if it’s essential? He seemed more concerned about the human tendency to “lord over” others.
“…He is going to be one of the brightest stars in heaven….”
Hmmm? Persuasive opinions on both sides. It is a matter of “preference,” I believe.
However, it’s an incongruous stance from someone whoose front man is Phil Johnson, whoose attorney was censured for lying, and whoose metric for salvation is whether you voted for a man just found liable for sexual assault, in addition to his neverending list of other moral failures.
A man and several of his co-workers died of covid. It was traced back to our choir. Interestingly, Covid can also damage the heart. To refuse any mitigations, conceal – no lie- that you and your wife contracted covid, to still seek to prove you were right, after over a million Americans died, in a short period of time, to the degree that you’re asking for donations to produce a movie vindicating you, is astoundingly incorrigible. Let’s not even mention all the lies in the biography.
There are missionaries who have given up modern luxuries like dining out, going to the mall, theatre, shopping, or sending their kids to a decent school. Of course, they could be shot and killed doing these simple things, but if not, they have made a great sacrifice to further the gospel. Ordinary Christians giving of themselves and their finances, giving testimony by how they live, without any fanfare, is more impressive than a celebrity who gets the royal treatment and a hefty salary. My favorite is the no name pastor faithfully serving his small church and community.
2 Samuel 24:24. What does it cost to be admired and elevated so high that you cannot be wrong – ever. It cost my admiration, support, and devotion for starters.
The irony of hearing unrepentant, grandiose-lying, spiritually abusive, victim-shaming bully JMac worry about his integrity regarding this issue is sickening, given the damage he has done over decades and his global influence in some circles where others are trained to follow in JMac’s ungodly steps.
“John MacArthur Tells Seminarians Not to Speak at Conferences With Women”
Because Girls Have Cooties?
That’s what it sounds like once you strip off all the God-talk and Christianese.
The “He-Man Woman-Haters Club” from Little Rascals, though this time it isn’t funny and real people are getting hurt for real.
Has he ever heard of Corrie ten Boom? She lived like Jesus, and God gave her a platform. Maybe if we stopped giving people platforms because of their talents or degrees or based on what kind of reproductive organs they have and look at how they live their lives, we would avoid all these scandals. If you are going to use your platform to condone abuse, get off the altar. You cannot stand for something Jesus went to the cross for because it is sin. This man needs to take a seat and be taught, not teach. Does he not know what Malachi says about an husband that deals treacherously with his wife or what Jesus said about a person that causes a child to stumble? And I refuse for a man (or woman) to write their words in the Bible. Allow God to breathe upon His Words and get rid of this man’s “Bible.” Jesus is The Word, not MacArthur. Jesus can speak for Himself.