Christian Rocker Posts Stunning Response to Recent Apostasy of Christian Leaders

By Julie Roys

John Cooper, the lead singer for the band Skillet, posted a stunning response on Facebook yesterday to the recent public renunciations of Christianity by Joshua Harris and then Hillsong songwriter, Marty Sampson. (Sampson has since slightly walked back his initial statement after Dr. Michael Brown posted an open letter challenging Sampson’s assertions.) Below is Cooper’s entire statement, which was also published at Cogent Christianity. I’m reposting it here because it’s so good and so important, and I want to make sure everyone who follows this blog sees it. Thank you, John Cooper, for saying what few have the insight or courage to say. God bless you, brother!

“Ok I’m saying it. Because it’s too important not to. What is happening in Christianity? More and more of our outspoken leaders or influencers who were once ‘faces’ of the faith are falling away. And at the same time they are being very vocal and bold about it. Shockingly they still want to influence others (for what purpose?) as they announce that they are leaving the faith. I’ll state my conclusion, then I’ll state some rebuttals to statements I’ve read by some of them. Firstly, I never judge people outside of my faith. Even if they hate religion or Christianity. That is not my place and I have many friends who disagree with my religion and that is 100% fine with me. However, when it comes to people within my faith, there must be a measure of loyalty and friendship and accountability to each other and the Word of God.

“My conclusion for the church (all of us Christians): We must STOP making worship leaders and thought leaders or influencers or cool people or ‘relevant’ people the most influential people in Christendom. (And yes that includes people like me!) I’ve been saying for 20 years(and seemed probably quite judgmental to some of my peers) that we are in a dangerous place when the church is looking to 20 year old worship singers as our source of truth. We now have a church culture that learns who God is from singing modern praise songs rather than from the teachings of the Word. I’m not being rude to my worship leader friends (many who would agree with me) in saying that singers and musicians are good at communicating emotion and feeling. We create a moment and a vehicle for God to speak. However, singers are not always the best people to write solid bible truth and doctrine. Sometimes we are too young, too ignorant of scripture, too unaware, or too unconcerned about the purity of scripture and the holiness of the God we are singing to. Have you ever considered the disrespect of singing songs to God that are untrue of His character?

We must STOP making worship leaders and thought leaders or influencers or cool people or ‘relevant’ people the most influential people in Christendom . . . we are in a dangerous place when the church is looking to 20 year old worship singers as our source of truth.

“I have a few specific thoughts and rebuttals to statements made by recently disavowed church influencers…first of all, I am stunned that the seemingly most important thing for these leaders who have lost their faith is to make such a bold new stance. Basically saying, ‘I’ve been living and preaching boldly something for 20 years and led generations of people with my teachings and now I no longer believe it..therefore I’m going to boldly and loudly tell people it was all wrong while I boldly and loudly lead people in to my next truth.’ I’m perplexed why they aren’t embarrassed? Humbled? Ashamed, fearful, confused? Why be so eager to continue leading people when you clearly don’t know where you are headed?

“My second thought is, why do people act like ‘being real’ covers a multitude of sins? As if someone is courageous simply for sharing virally every thought or dark place. That’s not courageous. It’s cavalier. Have they considered the ramifications? As if they are the harbingers of truth, saying ‘I used to think one way and practice it and preach it, but now I’ve learned all the new truth and will start practicing and preaching it.’ So the influencers become the voice for truth in whatever stage of life and whatever evolution takes place in their thinking.

(W)hy do people act like ‘being real’ covers a multitude of sins? As if someone is courageous simply for sharing virally every thought or dark place. That’s not courageous. It’s cavalier.

“Thirdly, there is a common thread running through these leaders/influencers that basically says that ‘no one else is talking about the REAL stuff.’ This is just flatly false. I just read today in a renown worship leader’s statement, ‘How could a God of love send people to hell? No one talks about it.’ As if he is the first person to ask this? Brother, you are not that unique. The church has wrestled with this for 1500 years. Literally. Everybody talks about it. Children talk about it in Sunday school. There’s like a billion books written on the topic. Just because you don’t get the answer you want doesn’t mean that we are unwilling to wrestle with it. We wrestle with scripture until we are transformed by the renewing of our minds.

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“And lastly, and most shocking imo, as these influencers disavow their faith, they always end their statements with their ‘new insight/new truth’ that is basically a regurgitation of Jesus’s words?! It’s truly bizarre and ironic. They’ll say ‘I’m disavowing my faith but remember, love people, be generous, forgive others.’ Ummm, why? That is actually not human nature. No child is ever born and says ‘I just want to love others before loving myself. I want to turn the other cheek. I want to give my money away to others in need.’ Those are bible principles taught by a prophet/Priest/king of kings who wants us to live by a higher standard which is not an earthly standard, but rather the ‘Kingdom of God’ standard. Therefore if Jesus is not the truth and if the Word of God is not absolute, then by preaching Jesus’s teachings you are endorsing the words of a madman. A lunatic who said ‘I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the father except through me.’ He also said that he was alive before Abraham, and to see him was to see God because he was one with God. So why then would a disavowed christian leader promote that ‘generosity is good’? How would you know ‘what is good’ without Jesus’s teachings? And will your ideas of what is ‘good’ be different from year to year based on your experience, culture trends, popular opinion etc and furthermore will you continue year by year to lead others into your idea of goodness even though it is not absolute? I’m amazed that so many Christians want the benefits of the kingdom of God, but with the caveat that they themselves will be the King.

“It is time for the church to rediscover the preeminence of the Word. And to value the teaching of the Word. We need to value truth over feeling. Truth over emotion. And what we are seeing now is the result of the church raising up influencers who did not supremely value truth who have led a generation who also do not believe in the supremacy of truth. And now those disavowed leaders are proudly still leading and influencing boldly AWAY from the truth.

It is time for the church to rediscover the preeminence of the Word. And to value the teaching of the Word. We need to value truth over feeling. Truth over emotion.

“Is it any wonder that some of our disavowed Christian leaders are letting go of the absolute truth of the Bible and subsequently their lives are falling apart? Further and further they are sinking in the sea all the while shouting ‘now I’ve found the truth! Follow me!!’ Brothers and sisters in the faith all around the world, pastors, teachers, worship leaders, influencers…I implore you, please please in your search for relevancy for the gospel, let us NOT find creative ways to shape Gods word into the image of our culture by stifling inconvenient truths. But rather let us hold on even tighter to the anchor of the living Word of God. For He changes NOT. ‘The grass withers and the flowers fade away, but the word of our God stands forever’ (Isaiah 40:8)”

Amen and amen.

  • 83


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69 thoughts on “Christian Rocker Posts Stunning Response to Recent Apostasy of Christian Leaders”

  1. “I implore you, please please in your search for relevancy for the gospel, let us NOT find creative ways to shape Gods word into the image of our culture by stifling inconvenient truths”

    Oh the irony. As one who admits worship leaders create the avenue by which God speaks, as one who becries their idolization, as one who challenges not to shape Gods message into the image of our culture, I challenge you to introspect on the “culture” you yourself have created with your worldly music and tattoos to boot.

    1. ???? So, let me get this straight. “Wordly” music and tattoos does not a Christian make??? Might be a good idea to reread John 8:7. Just because you believe that his “wordly” music and tattoos are not befitting a Christian, your holier-than-thou attitude also is not befitting a Christian.

    2. Today’s ” worship leaders” do not creat an “anenue” by which God speaks. Not even remotely the purpose of the musical/lyrical aspect of worshipping God.

      Author is correct that–at least in the West–“church” is abnormally prone to elevating “leaders” (pastors, guest speakers, any singer with a 4 octave range, etc.) to a place of exultation bordering idolatry.

      In Christ, all are made “one”. Neither Jew nor Gentile; slave nor free; male nor female.”

      Sidebar: Note that the gender issue currently strangling our culture’s intellectual faculties is handled in The word of God 20 centuries ago.

      Also, although worthy of honor and more highly accountable before God, pastors, teachers (and perhaps worship “leaders”) are the same as you and me, and every other part of the body of Christ.

    3. misterjesperson

      Sounds like Shimon is into empty legalism here. No wonder he did not get the article. What makes a man holy is his faith and relationship to Jesus. The idea that one style is holy and another worldly is just pure bunk. It is not about externals but about the heart. I have enjoyed Christian rock for many years now but the reality is what was stated here. The Word of God is the plumb-line, not emotionalism that can associated with every kind of musical style in the world.

      While I have not listened to this particular band, I sure do appreciate what this member of the band says for it is true. There is too much hype and focus on celebrity instead of grounding yourself in the Word and making your faith come alive with your own personal relationship to God. We need to stop following fallible men and instead follow the infallible and very personal Jesus Christ. Youth culture makes idols out of musicians and in that there is a big pit for people to fall into and get messed up when some musician or celebrity pastor changes their mind and starts teaching anything that contradicts God’s Word. I appreciate it whenever an insider speaks out this truth, It is just so rare as I suspect many are caught up in the fame and are self-deceived by their success which actually is a worldly thing.

    4. Shimon, I hope you don’t mind me replying to your post. I wanted to type a “new” message, but I wonder if the message section is now closed on this article. Since your post was at the top, I am replying to you. Hope that is O.K. For everyone who reads my post, PLEASE check out the Servus Christi you tube channel, and type in Skillet. You will find a very well document video on Skillet. He is good with words, but look at the fruit. I ONLY posted this as I care about truth. God bless you.

  2. “We are in a dangerous place when the church is looking to 20 year old worship singers as our source of truth.” And 20 YO writers, like Josh Harris. This is so very good.

  3. Thank you, John, for speaking the truth. Every word of God proves true (including the unpopular and difficult parts of Scripture). One hundred years from now, none of us will care what this or that person said and we won’t be concerned about comments, tweets, etc. What matters then as now is understanding what the One who made us and owns us thinks about a given subject, behavior, or belief. You have helped by pointing all of us back to the Word of God, which cannot fail or pass away.

  4. I like what he wrote, however I find it interesting he too seems to have been affected by the “do not judge” culture of today. Sad he felt the need to put out the I’m not a judger of the unbeliever disclaimer. Whenever I hear that I think Well, if your around when the anti Christ comes how are you going to discern who he is if your not going to judge unbelievers? He shows he too is afraid to be labeled as a judger, one of the main reasons josh and the worship leader walked away

    1. I see what you’re saying, but I also see what he’s saying. I took his “do not judge” in the spirit of 1 Cor. 5:9-11, where Paul says not to associate with sexually immoral people–“not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people.”

      We have different standards for unbelievers than believers. And until God gets a hold of someone’s heart, we can’t expect their behavior or attitudes to be right. As my mother would often say, “You can’t clean a fish before you catch it.”

      1. Uve Könnigsstaddt

        Demas and Paul, kind of reminds it me of it, Yoda would say. Dr. James White (Alpha and Omega Ministries) takes a very interesting approach in this issue.
        A 20 year old with no theological background whatsoever in the Bible became a “leader”?
        That captain can’t surely run a tight ship, would he?

        Link to Dr. White’s:
        Be blessed in Him
        Post Tenebras Lux

      2. Agreed. The world has already been judged, being “condemned already”. While we do share the Truth with those who will listen, accountability has to occur within the body of those professing Christ. (Although they, too, many times are not truly in the body, though still professing Christ.) 1 John 4:4 comes to mind.

    2. I may be wrong but from my perspective I think him saying he is not a “judger of unbelievers,” he is saying while we ourselves were still sinners Christ died for us. I don’t expect unbelievers to walk or think like Christians. Not that they can’t be kind but I don’t expect them to speck truth in my life like a brother or sister. We all judge everyday but that process is complicated and not always condemning or lead to hurt feelings. Sorry if I’m rambling. I just don’t expect a person in love with the world to act as though they have a relationship with the living God. But I still praying for them to get there. It’s only by grace that I’m here now…

  5. I’m not sure what your point is. John Cooper is certainly not “stiflling inconvenient truths.” He is emphasizing Christian truths. Cooper is also not stating that worship leaders create THE avenue by which God speaks. He speaks of A moment and A vehicle for God to speak. He includes himself in the group of singers who may be too young and inexperienced to lead. Yet he says “we are in a dangerous place when the church is looking to 20 year old worship singers as our source of truth.” But I welcome Cooper’s opinion, despite his “worldly music and tattoos” which seem to be your main complaint. Oh, I think I’ve discovered your point.

    1. Jan: If Cooper is sincere, let him follow through all the way on his outcry and denounce the world-loving lifestyle he has so actively promoted and exemplified to the young. In the same way that he is pleading that we not compromise the message of the Word as we try to find relevance for the gospel, so I plead with him to depart from the relevance-seeking, world-modelling music industry he is part of.

      1. misterjesperson

        So, in your personal version of the Bible, we are told to not be in the world in order to make sure we are not of the world?

  6. How can you NOT look excessively at a man who’s look of tattoos and music style is all about making people look at him?

    1. Shimon, would you get off his looks already?! What he is speaking is truth! We must get back to the word of God not idolizing immature believers with their own doctrine! Stop worrying about his tattoos and listen to what he is saying! Geez

      1. Dawn, if only it were about the looks alone… It is not. It is a systemic problem in that industry. If he wants to decry the state of worship leaders and musicians, he needs to realize he is part of the problem not part of the solution, so long as he remains a member of it. Example first, talk follows. To talk the talk you need to walk the walk.

    2. Uve Könnigsstaddt

      Tattoos and music style?
      I guess the 1st century tax collector Matthew should count his lucky stars the Messiah CHOSED as one of His disciples……
      Post Tenebras Lux

      1. We are not talking about judging people’s shortcomings and traits, or whatever sin they were into before they met Christ. But a person who overtly embraces the ways of the world in order to “be relevant” is not to be exemplified, particularly when he is challenging the church to keep things clean. He writes: “We must STOP making worship leaders and thought leaders or influencers or cool people or ‘relevant’ people the most influential people in Christendom.” Cooper is the epitome of one who is trying to be ‘cool’ and ‘relevant’… and influence people in Christendom.

  7. I appreciate Cooper’s response especially that those in showcase positions announce their renouncement of christian beliefs and then continue to use their notiriety to broadcast their new “truths”. Are they not in peril of leading others astray. Rather than a boastful attitude, I think that they should be in a place of fear. But maybe God was never real and personal so He is inconsequencial. A believer though In a crisis of faith I should think would be seeking, have a feeling of loss, grief, like learning of a betrayal from someone you trusted. If I was weighing God’s existence over an empy cosmic something it would weight heavy on my spirit. I would be in turmoil. I belive that based on warnings from scripture we should not be taken unaware. The greatest danger is if they are permitted to have a platform and there are no responses. We have a offensive weapon, a sword, the word of the Living God. May it pierce these deceptions and keep our brothers and sisters firm in the faith not led astray by these lies.
    Jesus is Lord over all and the gates of hell will not stand against believers.

    2 Timothy 3:1-3 3 “But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good” NIV

    1 Tim 4:1 “The Spirit says clearly that in later times some believers will desert the Christian faith. They will follow spirits that deceive, and they will believe the teachings of demons.” GW

    Matthew 18:7 “Woe to the world for the causes of sin. These stumbling blocks must come, but woe to the man through whom they come!” NIV

    Luke 17:1 Jesus told his disciples, “Situations that cause people to lose their faith are certain to arise. But how horrible it will be for the person who causes someone to lose his faith! GW

    Jude 1:18 when they said to you, “In the last times there will be scoffers who will follow after their own ungodly desires.” NIV

  8. Cooper makes some points well-worth considering. At the same time, I wish someone would address Hebrews 6:4-6. It seems to me that these verses are the crux of the matter for so-called Christian leaders, who fall away. In renouncing the living God and brazenly claiming increasing insight, it seems to me they are putting themselves in a dangerous position. And, quite likely leading others to do the same.

    “For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.”

    I couldn’t agree more with Cooper: “It is time for the church to rediscover the preeminence of the Word. And to value the teaching of the Word. We need to value truth over feeling. Truth over emotion. And what we are seeing now is the result of the church raising up influencers who did not supremely value truth who have led a generation who also do not believe in the supremacy of truth. And now those disavowed leaders are proudly still leading and influencing boldly AWAY from the truth.” And, according to scripture–that’s scary.

  9. Judgement is an interesting instrument that works for us and against us.

    Traveling abroad a few years ago I learned the divisive nature of judgement that comes from the Western Christian culture has been successfully been exported to all parts of the globe. While getting my hair cut in India a few years ago, the lady cutting my hair shared with me that she is a Christian. She went on to explain that her husband’s family is Christian too. Intrigued, I asked her about how and when the families converted to the Christian faith. She explained that her family came to the faith because of Assemblies Of God missionaries a few generations ago. Her husband family lives a few hundred miles away and their faith journey is a result of Baptist missionaries. Here comes the interesting part. The two sides of the family rarely talk to each other because they both think the other side is going to hell because they aren’t living a righteous life.

    Reading though these comments about judging (and supposedly not judging) just reinforces my belief this is a longstanding problem that isn’t going away soon. It wouldn’t be surprising if someone responds here with a scripture explaining how my point of view is paving the highway to hell.

    On a separate note, I wholeheartedly agree with his concern that we equivocate stage presence and charisma with discernment and wisdom. The problem isn’t unique to the church as we in America allow (and even encourage) celebrities to speak on matters such as foreign policy.

  10. Susan McLaughlin

    Perhaps part of our problem is we’ve put leaders on a pedestal, they don’t belong there. They’re human & still under construction just as all of us are. We each need to stay accountable to Jesus first then to one another.

  11. Very good comments from John Cooper, and much appreciated. When I read Shimon’s comments about worldliness, and the subsequent denunciations of Shimon for making them, my mind went to an area of Christian practice that I think is under-appreciated and therefore rarely discussed namely, that according to Scripture, forms matter. That is, the manner in which you do ministry has an effect on that ministry. Leaders speak BOTH in their manner and in their words. Therefore, Paul rejects use of a form of entertainment in his day, Greek rhetoric, as inappropriate for the Gospel in 1 Corinthians 2:1-5. The way we choose to minister can deter from the centrality of Christ in our ministry. To use an extreme and hopefully obvious example, if a preacher chose to dress like Marilyn Manson (okay, I’m old and so are my references -:), would it not detract from the message of a holy God Who eschews evil? Would we say “that’s just external but what matters is Pastor Marilyn-Light’s heart?” Based on 1 Corinthians 2 we need to begin seriously considering HOW we go about ministry, not just WHAT we say. The HOW communicates, too. So, it’s no surprise that musicians (or preachers or any other Christian leader) who seek to look and talk and act in ‘cool’ and ‘relevant’ ways – the kinds of things that are prerequisite to celebrity – will develop followers who make celebrities our of them because they’re cool and relevant, all the things John Cooper (rightly) decries. The alternative is not to remove oneself from the world, but rather to not be ‘of the world’ while in it. What ‘worldliness’ is and how it can be discerned is a larger (but extremely important) topic but, for now and this discussion, I submit that it should include consideration of not only what is said, but how it is presented – both of which are forms of communication.

    1. Thanks Ken, agreed we should reason together, not cast stones because our opinions vary.
      I am surprised that so many Christians are surprised at what’s happening in the world around them! It is happening exactly as Jesus/the Bible said it would!
      We should be thanking God for revealing this to us in His Word so that we could know that He will be coming to set things right soon!
      He is separating the tares from the wheat…srengthening His bride.
      May we be found faithful and be drawn closer to Him and to each other!

  12. Praying the Lord would continue to impart boldness and wisdom into His servant, John Cooper, as he continues to fight the good fight. ?

  13. Hi,

    It was a good of him to stand and speak pointing to the Word of God, without a ground for our faith we will always be tossed around. In a sea of people and their subsequent thoughts and feelings in a life full of difficulties we do need to keep grace and truth. That seems to be the struggle.

    Many can flee the truth end when they see real guilt before a holy God. Absolutes and real judgement scare people. They may have trouble discerning truth with such varied interpretations mixed with traditions. On the other end they may see grace void of truth leads to relativeness and to its full end chaos without absolutes.

    Hopefully, these lost leaders see the end and repent turning to our God who is full of mercy and is the truth. Lets remember all in the faith or out all bear His image even though now scared with sin.

    God’s peace,


  14. Why even read this and leave a comment like that? ? God is bigger than anyone’s culture.. The US often does westernize Jesus though. He was a middle eastern Jew. I don’t believe God really cares if you worship him to different styles of music as long as the intent and heart is right. Who are you to judge another man’s servant and say it’s wrong? Besides, they’ll probably never read your comment in the 1st place. Have a nice day.

  15. I have a few thoughts on this. Many ominous warnings in scripture about what God does to those who lead others astray. Lots of examples right before us every day with wrath being poured out on mass deceivers. Also, this is why the new doctrine of “me and my bible and Jesus” quickly becomes “Me”. Churches need Theologians and leaders to ensure “Nihil Obstat” and “Imprimatur”. There is a huge difference between spirituality and emotionalism.

  16. I have a thought! Up until the last 30 or 40 years, those old Baptist preachers used to preach the word of God from the Bible. They preached judgment, grace, sin and forgiveness, and mostly, Christ was always central. When society went astray from morality, they spoke out boldly and confronted it in the public square. They were not afraid of being called names and their congregations followed them in defending the faith and morality against a sliding culture. Then, somewhere down the line (sometime in the 70s or 80s) those guys became “uncool.” The idea was to jazz up the gospel to make it more appealing – to stop talking about negative stuff like sin and judgment. Bible study had to be mixed with fun time, and became less deep and comprehensive. Sermons sounded more like self-help seminars with a little Jesus thrown in. And pastors stopped confronting the culture (in large part) and standing boldly for a godly standard in society. The modern pastor did not want to be perceived as being like those old Christian pastors, preaching he’ll-fire and brimstone, and dressed in a black tie and white shirt. We bought the lie that the gospel, and simply the gospel, actually turned people away from the gospel. And so the light became dimmer, and the salt became bladder, yet are still looking for new ways to appeal to people. Also, the church is turning inward, rather than outward. And most Christians do not know their Bibles. So we are now becoming helpless in standing for righteousness and truth, and conforming to society. A kind of faith that allows people to remain silent is a faith that allows these types of “Christian ” leaders to exist. When their hypocrisy finally comes full circle, they go to the path of least resistance. These types of leaders would be exposed a lot sooner if the standard had not slipped so much. The gospel of Jesus Christ is the greatest thing the world has ever known. We should get back to basics , and embrace it and declare it unashamedly! Thanks sir, for having the courage to say what you have said.

  17. It seems to me your judging the person by his looks and profession, instead of what he is writing about. Which in case you missed it by looking at his tattoos, is the point that “Christian leaders” and “Christians” as a whole, are walking away from their faith and taking others with them under the pretense of knowing more than the Bible teaches. Just because we don’t like the fact that unsaved sinners will face eternal judgement and punishment by God himself, does not make what the Bible teaches irrelevant. I suggest you get back int the Word of God and fast and pray about your understanding of Scripture.

  18. Just a simple believer

    So are you saying that if God gave this young man the talent to sing and proclaim the gospel that he is wrong for doing it and he should remove himself from what God clearly gave him the talent and resources to do? Who are you to make this statement? That would be like someone telling you that if you proclaim Christianity at work you need to resign because you are ‘world modelling’ in your industry. Why should someone that has talent and uses that talent to reach people to try and bring them to Christ stop just because you disagree? How many people might miss God’s message if you convinced him to stop…how would you explain that to God? The hypocrisy, judgement and arrogance seem strong with you. Maybe you need to pray and rethink what you said to him?

    1. Just a simple believer

      I was responding to Shimon as well…not sure why it doesn’t put responses under the comments you are responding too.

  19. Amen! It’s so easy to lose focus and be disuaded by so many distractions both good and bad. “Keep your eyes stayed on me”!

  20. There are some Churches where hierarchy is everything and what you say is all weighted on how high in the hierarchy you are. If you are just a regular member and say something that is concerning they are not even taking into consideration but if someone who is a leader says the same exact thing then automatically is a word from God. Your worth as a person is based on the position you have and if you do not have a position then you are seen and treated as worthless and higher you are the more people care for you and treat you better. I would not blame the regular people only for behavior like this because the leaders are the ones that set the tone for Churches and if you see something like this as a leader and do nothing to change it then it is on you. And just saying something is not enough but you need to be doing something because saying and doing are two completely different things. It is one thing to say I feel bad that this is happening and another thing to do something to change it.

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