Saddleback Church has announced that a final report from a third-party investigation has cleared Andy Wood, Rick Warren’s announced successor, of allegations of fostering “an abusive staff culture.”
However, two former high-level staff at Wood’s former church challenged the investigation, saying victims’ voices were minimized to protect a powerful pastor.
The investigation was conducted by Vanderbloemen Group, a Christian executive search firm, which had conducted a background check on Wood before Wood was announced as Warren’s successor in June. After allegations of abuse concerning Wood surfaced on social media, Saddleback re-engaged Vanderbloemen to investigate the allegations.
According to Kristin Cole, president of A. Larry Ross Communications, which represents Saddleback, the church will not share the full report with the public “out of respect for those who contributed to it.” However, Cole released a July 11 statement by Saddleback’s elders to The Roys Report (TRR).
“The team at Vanderbloemen interviewed former employees, former volunteers, peers, and current employees to ask them about their experiences with Andy,” the statement said. “The sample can be said to be thorough. After our work, we concluded there is no systemic or pattern of abuse under Andy’s leadership, nor was there an individual that we felt was abused.”
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However, a couple who served as pastors at Echo Church—the San Jose, California, megachurch Wood co-founded in 2009—say they’re skeptical of Vanderbloemen’s findings.
Jason and Lori Adams-Brown, former pastors on Echo’s Strategic Leadership Team, say they know of 15 to 20 former Echo volunteers, members, and staff—including themselves—who spoke with Vanderbloemen with concerns about Wood. In an exclusive interview with TRR, the couple said they’re disheartened these concerns weren’t taken more seriously.
“We went to Saddleback (through Vanderbloemen), at great personal risk to ourselves, to tell our story because we cared about our brothers and sisters at Saddleback and wanted to warn them about what we believe is a wolf that has a history of devouring sheep behind the curtains,” said Lori Adams-Brown, former assistant campus pastor at Echo’s Sunnyvale location.
She added, “It’s very, very easy in a situation like this—with the power dynamics and the image management, and the PR firms and big organizations that have been brought into the situation . . . for one voice to be centered way more than the other. But if you’re trying to get to the truth, and over 20 people have spoken about concerns, that in itself is a red flag that I wish had been taken more seriously.”
Abuse survivor attorney Boz Tchividjian, founder of G.R.A.C.E., said he’s troubled that neither the Saddleback statement nor the statements by third parties provide a definition of abuse.
“Despite the fact that this key term in undefined, Saddleback nonetheless embraces the conclusions from the third parties that state, ‘…nor was there an individual that we felt was abused’ and ‘…there was no pattern of abuse towards an individual.’ How can anyone place merit behind such conclusions without first defining ‘abuse’?”
According to the Adams-Browns, many former Echo employees have been silenced by non-disclosure agreements (NDA). The Adams-Browns said Echo tried to get them to sign an NDA when they left the church, but the couple refused.
Several former high-level employees confirmed with TRR that they signed NDAs when they left Echo. These include Archie Jackson, one of the original three co-founding pastors of Echo; former Sunnyvale Campus Pastor Darren Allarde; former Communications Pastor J.C. Navarro; former Guest Experience Pastor Nick Copland and his wife, former Echo Worship Pastor Shannan Copland.
Copland and Navarro told TRR they did not participate in Vanderbloemen’s investigation. And because of their NDAs, they said they also could not speak with TRR about their experience at Echo.
When TRR texted Copland last week, he texted back, “This is the first time anybody’s contacted me trying to genuinely learn more.”
Copland added, “When I think back and look back at the last three or five years of Echo Church, I probably should have been the number one person to be contacted (by Vanderbloemen) due to my position at Echo. I was one of the campus pastors. The only position higher than that is the executive pastor and the lead pastor.”
Archie Jackson, however, said Vanderbloemen invited him to participate in its investigation, so he did. He added that he’s heard “through the grapevine” that former Echo employees were released from their NDAs, but no one from Echo has confirmed that, so he could not speak on the record with TRR.
TRR contacted Echo and asked specifically about releasing former employees from NDAs, but Echo did not respond.
Only one former pastor under an NDA, Darren Allarde, spoke with TRR about his experience. Allarde said he also participated in Vanderbloemen’s investigation.
TRR reached out to Gail Mayes, Vanderbloemen director of people and culture, who conducted the firm’s investigation of Wood, with specific questions about the investigation. Mayes told TRR she could not comment.
However, TRR spoke with Bob Sutton, who worked at Vanderbloemen as vice president of candidate relations before leaving in 2019.
According to Sutton, Vanderbloemen normally runs social media and criminal background checks on those it recommends for positions, as well as checks references.
Though Sutton said the person conducting the background checks is “very thorough,” he said Vanderbloemen is a search firm and not designed to do independent investigations.
Saddleback elders said in their statement that the church recruited an independent third-party firm, Middlebrook & Goodspeed, to evaluate Vanderbloemen’s investigation process and findings. (Middlebrook & Goodspeed is the same firm that initially defended The Village Church in Flower Mound, Texas, against a 2019 lawsuit alleging the church was negligent in responding to child sex abuse.)
The elders’ statement said Middlebrook & Goodspeed concluded that “the investigation was objective, thorough, transparent, and truthful” and also protected the identity of the witnesses, “which is essential to obtaining the truth.”
Middlebrook & Goodspeed also reportedly found that a conflict of interest did not exist in the investigation and that “Vanderbloemen’s team followed all the leads provided to seek the truth. Further, there was nothing in the materials and interviews we reviewed that would lead us to contradict Vanderbloemen’s finding that there was no pattern of abuse nor abuse towards an individual.”
As a result of the findings from both Vanderbloemen and Miller and Goodspeed, the Saddleback elders stated, “(W)e can now say with complete confidence that the investigations have CLEARED (emphasis by Saddleback) Pastor Andy Wood of the accusations made by a former employee.”
Tweet prompts investigation
According to Saddleback’s statement, the church commissioned Vanderbloemen’s investigation after “a former Echo Church staff member posted an accusation online claiming abusive staff culture under Andy’s leadership.”
That employee is likely Lori Adams-Brown.
On June 2, the day Saddleback announced Wood as Warren’s successor, Adams-Brown tweeted, “When a pastor with many allegations of abuse against him from over more than a decade gets hired to be the pastor of one of the largest churches in America, and none of the survivors that you know were ever reached out to by the elder board that unanimously approved him…#sbc”
When a pastor with many allegations of abuse against him from over more than a decade gets hired to be the pastor of one of the largest churches in America, and none of the survivors that you know were ever reached out to by the elder board that unanimously approved him… #sbc
— Lori Adams-Brown 🇻🇪🇨🇷🇮🇩🇸🇬 (@loriadbr) June 3, 2022
Similarly, on June 4, Adams-Brown tweeted, “NDAs have no place in the church. If a pastor claims there have been no allegations of abuse against him, but he has gotten many former staff to sign NDAs (even if he gaslit staff by not calling them NDAs), this is cause for deep investigation into all former employees with care.”
NDAs have no place in the church. If a pastor claims there have been no allegations of abuse against him, but he has gotten many former staff to sign NDAs (even if he gaslit staff by not calling them NDAs), this is cause for deep investigation into all former employees with care
— Lori Adams-Brown 🇻🇪🇨🇷🇮🇩🇸🇬 (@loriadbr) June 4, 2022
TRR tried to confirm that Adams-Brown is the employee who prompted the investigation. Kristin Cole replied that she didn’t know any of the “Echo details.”
TRR contacted Echo directly, asking about the employee’s identity, but Echo did not respond to our inquiry.
According to a statement from Saddleback on June 12, Wood mentioned accusations by a former staff member against him during his interview process with Saddleback.
Then, after the allegations went public, Saddleback “re-engaged” Vanderbloemen to “do new interviews with all involved parties to see if there was any evidence or third-party corroboration by others of the accusation,” the June statement said. The Saddleback elders also reportedly “launched a second series of interviews of our own.”
Within days, Vanderbloemen produced a “preliminary” report, “clearing Pastor Wood of the allegations.” According to Saddleback’s statement, the basis of the preliminary finding was “an exhaustive report” conducted by Echo Church, “which included video footage, email and text records, and interviews.” Vanderbloemen also reportedly interviewed more Echo staff and board members.
However, at the time of the preliminary report, Vanderbloemen had not spoken with Lori Adams-Brown. And though Saddleback’s statement said Vanderbloemen had reached out to the former employee, Adams-Brown gave TRR a text showing that Vanderbloemen’s first contact with her was June 15—three days after the results of the preliminary report were published.
TRR has asked both Vanderbloemen and Echo if they’d release the videos, emails, and text records from Echo’s “exhaustive report.”
Vanderbloemen did not respond.
But Echo Director of Marketing and Communications Grace Tan replied, “Regarding the materials requested, those are employment documents intended for Vanderbloemen’s independent evaluation and cannot be shared with media.”
Adams-Brown said she’s heard that videos of her meetings with Wood exist but has never seen the alleged footage.
According to former Sunnyvale campus pastor, Darren Allarde, Echo has “cameras all over the building” and a camera in Wood’s office. Allarde said he believes the camera in Wood’s office does not have a microphone, so the footage would likely be video only.
TRR reached out to Wood through Kristin Cole for an interview. Cole responded that Wood is taking the month off to spend time with his family and not doing interviews.
TRR also contacted Echo for comment regarding the allegations. Echo responded last week with a statement from the Echo.Church Board of Trustees and Board of Overseers.
“For personnel matters of which we are aware, we want to assure you that due diligence was taken to appropriately inspect the allegations when initially raised,” Echo’s statement said. “This included reviewing a California general release document, multiple carefully conducted interviews, and a more recent review through a third-party premier church staffing firm.
“Findings consistently showed that Pastor Andy is none of the things described in the allegations. Rather, he has been found to be very much the opposite: a healthy leader who genuinely loves God and people.”
However, the Adams-Browns questioned whether Echo Church leadership knows what “healthy” looks like. Both noted that Echo and Wood hosted a leadership conference in May 2021, featuring Mark Driscoll, whose bullying, intimidation, and unhealthy leadership is well-documented.
Alleged abuse of power
According to Lori and Jason Adams-Brown, Andy Wood led Echo Church in a dictatorial manner that punished anyone who dared question him.
Lori Adams-Brown told TRR that in 2020, she innocently asked Wood a question about the logistics of Wood’s plan to reopen Echo during COVID. This led to a series of interrogations by Wood, she said, and an “abusive” meeting between her, Wood, and now-Acting Lead Pastor Filipe Santos.
Jason Adams-Brown, former Echo pastor of church planting and missions, told TRR that when he objected to his wife’s treatment, Echo fired both of them. (Both Lori and Jason Adams-Brown told TRR their full story, which will be released shortly.)
Similarly, Lance Hough, former creative arts pastor at Echo’s Fremont campus who said he participated in Vanderbloemen’s investigation, told TRR that the culture at Echo was “toxic and unhealthy.”
Hough had been a pastor at Crossroads Church, which in 2020 merged with Echo. According to Hough, the merger was supposed to be a “marriage” that blended the best aspects of both organizations. But Hough said that whenever he’d ask why Echo does something a certain way, or suggested a different way that Crossroads had tried, he was rebuffed.
“(Echo leadership) didn’t want to have those questions,” Hough said. “And it was very much of like, ‘Well, no, this is the Echo culture. This is what we do . . . And it just felt very disingenuous. Like, if this was going to be an acquisition, then just say, so. Why did you feel the need to lie to us?”
Hough said he also observed a “culture of leader worship” at Echo, which felt “very culty.” Hough said that whatever Wood said was “gospel—like, you do it.”
Hough said on a few occasions, he asked Wood clarifying questions about projects Wood had suggested. “All the heads in the room would turn to me, people just staring daggers at me, like, ‘What are you doing? Don’t ask questions!’” Hough said. “After the meeting, I was pulled aside and told, ‘We don’t do that! We don’t ask questions like that. If (Wood) says that’s what we’re going to do . . . we just make it happen.”
Hough said he and other Echo lower-level staff were expected to work extremely long hours, but executive staff did not. Hough said his lightest week at Echo consisted of 48 to 50 hours of work and his heaviest was around 70 hours.
Former Sunnyvale campus pastor, Darren Allarde, a technologist who formerly worked in the gaming industry, had a different perspective. He said the culture at Echo simply reflected the culture of Silicon Valley: “fast and aggressive” with employees who were “high capacity.”
Allarde told TRR that he was “burned out” when he left Echo but said he doesn’t see Wood as an abusive leader like Mark Driscoll.
“If you’re on a project that was kind of distant from (Wood), you had all the flexibility in the world,” Allarde said. “But if you had a project that was closer to him that he cared about, well, you had less flexibility. But is that a problem?”
Saddleback proceeds with Wood
In its latest statement, Saddleback said it “will now resume moving forward with the process of installing Andy Wood as the next Senior Pastor of Saddleback Church in September.”
The church said it would also focus on planning a celebration of the “unprecedented 43-year ministry” of founding pastor, Rick Warren, and his wife, Kay Warren.
“This would be the end of the story for many organizations,” the statement said. “But it’s not the end for us at Saddleback.”
The elders added, “(W)e will never stop praying for, and seeking, personal reconciliation where there has been conflict or misunderstanding. . . . In our broken world, there will always be conflict, disagreements, and disappointments, so recovery and reconciliation in relationships will always be needed.”
However, Lori Adams-Brown expressed disappointment that none of the Saddleback elders have reached out to her or other alleged victims of Wood’s abuse.
“It’s disappointing that we’ve not had any communication back from the Saddleback elders, about how they’re even handling our stories or to show us any form of care in any way,” she said. “Even if Saddleback didn’t believe abuse took place, clearly we are people in the church . . . that have been very minimum hurt by the situation and are expressing our concerns.”
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57 Responses
I would say Pastor Wood’s greater abuse is how he handles the Word of God.
Not surprising in the least. So sad. William Vanderbloemen is all about the platform and prestige that has killed the evangelical church. He was a big supporter of Mark Driscoll (as was Rick Warren, so no surprise). I’d be curious what Sutton Turner would say. He was Executive Pastor at Mars Hill and walked through his repentance, and was working at Vanderbloemen and than left. I wonder why?
Would Jesus ever require someone to sign an NDA? Just asking for a friend.
I seem to recall him saying something to the effect of “That which is whispered in the inner rooms shall be shouted from the housetops.”
This is what I was worried about when the preliminary all clear was announced in the last article. You can’t say nobody alleged abuse if there are NDAs in effect and the only way to address this is to publicly release people. This is bad all around.
Whatever a good pick would have been, this is an awful one.
“gaming industry”? That would be gambling, would it not?
Not necessarily. Video game industry is a pretty big one out in Cali.
David Green and Mark Deckard,
Lifelong Californian here. “Gaming” is euphemistic PC-speak for gambling. If we were talking about the video-game industry headquartered in Silicon Valley, it would be referred to as such.
One UK usage of “gaming”, is ‘playing the system to personal, selfish or never-intended-by-founders advantage’. So unintended outcomes arising from good-intention-arrangements. Abiding by the letter while violating the spirit of what was intended (or needed).
No it doesn’t and hasn’t for at least decade. It’s referring to video games.
I get grumpy about terms whose common meanings morph over time (the one I had to let go of most recently is that ‘crypto,’ used to mean ‘cryptography,’ as in PKI, not ‘cryptocurrency’). Just google ‘gaming industry’ and you’ll see all the top hits are for video games development.
It’s especially apparent they’re using the more common meaning (far more common these days) because he is described as a ‘technologist’ and his bio supports that he does coding or development or some kind. He’s working on app right now called Salt and Light. And, using common sense, if he works at a church and had a background in gambling technology, he’d probably just say ‘technology.’
I’m not going to log into LinkedIn to look at his full profile but there’s a hit on MobyGames for a 2003 game with his name on it and in the public LinkedIn profile someone mentions him playing Warcraft 3, which was from about then.
This is the correct reading outside of Nevada. It’s even more clearly the correct reading for someone who appears to be late gen-x, early millennial and was working in the Bay Area. There was a time after Prop 5 in California (1998) where it would have been used widely to mean gambling in the state, but the explosive growth of the video games industry since then has meant that ‘gaming’ is parlance for video games, just as ‘gamer’ is used to refer to the games, not gambling.
Mark Gunderson,
Maybe you’re in the Bay Area where such is a much bigger thing than it is down here, but I’ve always heard it referred to as the “VIDEO game industry”.
Ever since ‘gamer’ became common, I think ‘gaming’ meant video games pretty much everywhere. Doesn’t really matter too much in the context of this story.
Vonderbloemen Group is a strange creation to me. From what I have observed, they have mechanized and formulated so much of what used to be handled by prayer and fasting. Makes one wonder how churches found pastors for 2000 years prior to them coming along with thier corporate analytics.
To get Saddleback a placement with thier seal of approval only to have it blow up in thier face is very bad for the brand. There is an incentive to produce a positive report and move forward. As such Vanderblomen is in conflict of interest handling the investigation. But time will tell if Mr. Wood is in fact a bully. Because Rick Warren surely was not.
Mark Deckard,
Warren is definitely not blameless. He had a choice to pick this guy or not. This says more about HIS character, than it does Wood’s.
The Vanderbloemen Group seems to have had the most to lose as they were the “headhunter” bringing Mr. Wood to Saddleback’s attention. I am surprised they did not step down as an investigator since they could never be impartial. Then to hire Middlebrook & Goodspeed to rubber stamp the Vanderbloeman Group’s investigation? Julie, please follow the money trail…
The red flags are at full mast and waving vigorously. Will anyone at Saddleback have eyes to see?
Having worked for a church where a Vanderblomen hired candidate ended up being a catastrophic failure. I can tell you their so-called comprehensive background check doesn’t seem to go much past the Executive team and their choice of voices to be heard from.
Staff members that would actually encounter the toxic leadership style of a person like Andy Wood or the like doesn’t stand a chance of actually being interviewed or even listened to by an organization like Vanderblomen or even their own Executive Leadership Team. Sadly, that is the reality of most Mega Churches and now the path Saddleback is choosing to go all in on to.
I spent 14yrs in the mega church world and worked at 3 different churches and while they all were different in their own ways they all operated very much the same. It’s not so much the Purpose Driven Church as it is the Leadership Delusional Church. Churches all about creating leaders, but they themselves are toxic and unhealthy leaders. It’s a delusional and dangerous model of church, hence, the status of the Evangelical mega church.
Thank you for your insights, Glenn. It does seem like most mega churches sadly run like a corporation these days.
I have worked for tech corporations with revenues ranging from 20-100 billion annually for 20+ years and my experience is that they are run with more integrity, transparency, and higher ethical standards than many of these churches I read about. So I would surmise many churches are run much more poorly than many publicly-traded corporations. And as a woman, I am consistently treated with more respect and embraced for leadership characteristics at work vs my experience at most evangelical churches.
So do all the big evangelical missions. And most organized churches with property here in the US.
US business culture has invaded the church, and very few “church” organizations follow Scripture first any more. They follow lawyers, who follow US legal codes.
So in reality we look to codes of man and the US legal & business system instead of the codes of God. That happens because we have property to “protect.”
Speaking of definitions, where does the definition for abuse, abuse of power, etc come from?
Is there one in the Bible? Not that I can find. I do know it has been enshrined in our legal systems, but that doesn’t make it biblical.
We all “abuse” one another. We are human and make mistakes, and each has a different perspective.
It is extremely dangerous to even engage in being a pastor these days, especially if you are male.
It looks like the Lord is bringing down all our well-established scaffolding that has taken the place of the true Church.
Elizabeth Ricker,
you said,
“Speaking of definitions, where does the definition for abuse, abuse of power, etc come from?
Is there one in the Bible? Not that I can find. I do know it has been enshrined in our legal systems, but that doesn’t make it biblical.”
—————–
the best anyone can do is conjecture an argument from silence (on this as well as many other topics).
it is problematic, dangerous, to mine the bible for “biblical” answers.
One can make the bible say all kinds self-serving things or ideological-serving things — i reckon many of which are unethical, immoral things. the process itself is unethical.
Skepticism about the legitimacy of the concept of abuse simply because the word cant be found in your concordance seems a bit pendantic. Of course abuse is clearly defined and condemned by the bible. Abuse is unloving in the extreme. Love is the high calling for Christians and churches and leaders. Based on what we call abuse, what does the bible seem to say about being hurtful and mean and oppressive? Much. Namely Jesus forbade “Lording over others” the way secular powers do.
Lets not buy into the war on empathy.
And no we all do not abuse each other. Maybe you think you have abused others but that does not make all of us abusers – therefore normalizing abuse in your mind.
Sorry to put such a fine point on it but you may want to search your heart and ask some of your loved ones if they think you are a bully- just based on your comment.
Glenn, your experiences are in sync with mine. Unfortunately, I’ve also experienced it at average size churches, too. But there is less of an audience to hear about what happened at a church with an average weekly attendance of 300 than 3,000.
“Echo lower-level staff were expected to work extremely long hours, but executive staff did not.”
“Wood is taking the month off to spend time with his family”
but of course.
Perhaps he’s going to Delaware?
“Findings consistently showed that Pastor Andy is none of the things described in the allegations. Rather, he has been found to be very much the opposite: a healthy leader…”
–Echo.Church Board of Trustees and Board of Overseers.
—————————————-
well, of course they said this. they believe authoritarian totalism is “healthy” by virtue of the fact they support this church.
(or if they don’t, they can’t say otherwise now this late in the game – it would make them look bad.)
really scuzzy from every angle.
You hit the nail on the head my friend, “it would make them look bad.” Image over Biblical integrity.
Rock (Star) Warren is every bit as corrupt as the more flagrantly offensive megachurch offenders. He doesn’t promise to heal your long-dead mum from the dead if you tithe to him–fine. He’s arguably worse, since he comes across as sophisticated, moderate, and respectable.
Any time you have an all-powerful potentate pastor, this is going to happen. You want to know which churches to avoid–avoid those where the pastor cannot be disciplined/fired.
The reference in the article to the need to define “abuse”, when investigating and then clearing a particular individual of abuse, is fundamentally valid. This then a wider issue.
We frequently now speak about “sexual abuse”, “physical abuse”, “pastoral abuse”, “authority abuse”, “power abuse”, and many more specific references. While from specific viewpoints, all those instances may have a clear shared aspect; it is just as frequently the case that we are using the term in many different ways, that it means very different things to different people.
My own life experience has it that abuse attaches very much to individual (egocentric) and collective certitude, such that its dynamics root back complexly into what an abusing individual or collective believe. So ideology (or theology in a religious instance) tends to be the driver of much abusing, So, while shameful abusing may be done secretly in the darkness, it is also done proudly in the light of ideological certainty.
But what you seem to be missing is that at the end of the day all allegations of abuse are subject to the consideration of a reasonable, non partial accountability group who ask themselves, “If the instances and experiences being described happened to me, would I feel I was being abused?”
When you have numerous individuals alleging substantively similar treatment and describing as feeling abusive, then the likelihood that the accusations are valid is pretty strong.
Again there is a categorical skepticism being insinuated here that doesn’t just say “let the facts come out” but moreso “who really knows what abuse is?” That is concerning and may explain the tolerance for such behaviors.
If a church is requiring NDA’s, then it obviously has something to hide and is is not about being transparent!
This whole process sounds more like a Fortune 500 corporation using a headhunter and PR Firm to search for and confirm their new CEO than anything remotely resembling a shepherd leading his flock!
Strange than Saddleback would not ‘promote from within their own ranks’? Had not Warren raised up any competent, godly leaders of his own?
Could not agree more, Brad. As soon as I hear that a church utilizes NDAs, I check out. Everything else after that fact is like white noise. Perhaps somebody more scholarly than me can find a Biblical foundation for NDAs.
Richard- NDA’s are found in the Book of Speculations, Chap. 3 verse 1!!!????????
Shepherds don’t lead flocks, they follow them, watch over them, and help them out when needed. The West is obsessed with ‘leadership’ which gives us the bizarre consequences we see not only in ‘church as business’, but even in small suburban and township churches. This is where the ‘pastor as leader’ passivates his/her brethren…because they now have a ‘leader’ not a fellow follower of Christ with whom they mutually serve the church according to their gifts.
David Green,
I’m not as familiar with the book of 2 Opinions as I used to be, so I’m going to need to do some research on your claim that “shepherds don’t lead.”
It’s probably my fault for memorizing Psalm 23 in in an archaic translation, but I could have sworn that it said, “The Lord is my Shepherd… He LEADS me beside still waters.”
Not to disparage whatever translation you are using, but could you help me understand where you are getting your “the shepherd follows the sheep theology.”
Perhaps it is from one of the Gospels where Jesus is quoted (as the Good Shepherd), “Let me follow you, so you can show me the best way to do whatever it is that we are going to do together.” Hesitations 2:3
This is such a beautiful reminder. Thank you David.
So Rick Warren couldn’t find anyone else on the planet to take over? Has to go with someone abusive. It’s ridiculous. Wonder what the motive is behind the scenes.
Publishing soon: “The Abuse Driven Church”
Hey, just doing a little, lite research on the internet reveals how all these “mega churches” “network” amongst one another you will see how everybody has everybody’s back. Between the book circuits the conference circuits the CCM concerts etc…christian PR firms etc..etc…. you get the picture?
To quote the secular, comedian George Carlon:
“It’s a big club and you ain’t it.”
Persecution is coming to the American church at some point. Hence the coming of the disolvement of the “mega church / church growth model. How revealing those days will be.
NO SURPRISE: Religion is Big Business and “sheeple” aren’t going to mess with Tithe, and how they have the money coming in and or where it goes. The Occult hides sin, lives in darkness, doesn’t live in truth and sweeps sin under the carpet. Folks, there is a satanic/luciferian role call of Pastors and Ministries in a Book and Authors aren’t wrong at all. “Sheeple,” should always research who founded and funded their Pastors, Churches, Ministries. How do you even know if Ministries are Acts 16:31.
God didn’t get a dime but the prostituting and the whoring of his name and who he is. “Sheeple” don’t question in entirety how much money taken in each year and where it goes and who they help. “Pagan Christianity (green cover) by Frank Viola; Ten Lies Church Tells Women/Lies Men Believe by J. Lee Grady drop in the bucket habitual lies of our false church institute leaders when people are the church, not building; or pastor! Explain the present condition of our World and Nation vs. False Church Institute! Exit and dry up the money, especially when not learning anything can apply in Life, replacing God with all these King Saul types.
Mmm . . . nothing here really substantiates (even minimally) a claim of abuse – more he said, she said; and apparent disagreements, which are inevitable. I’ll wait for the article detailing the Adams-Browns’ allegations.
I have to say, I do disagree with Lori Adams-Brown’s approach though. Fine if she wants to air her allegations, but to bring the claims of unnamed individuals – who may or may be subject to an NDA – leaves much to be desired.
I think it’ll serve Saddleback’s interest (for accountability and transparency) to release a redacted version of the Vanderbloemen and Middlebrook & Goodspeed’s reports. Vanderbloemen clearly missed a few things in their initial vetting and initial investigation. But to the credit of the Saddleback elders, they saw that Vanderbloemen missed speaking with Ms Adams-Brown and didn’t close the investigation until this was done. Anyway, Saddleback, release the reports; why would you want this cloud hanging over your new pastor’s head.
Lots of great points made above. I just have two quick ones.
1. How could Saddleback not have a worthy,, qualified candidate from within its own ranks? Or did Rick Warren actively discourage the development of an in-house pastor to replace him?
2. Andy Wood’s ‘special expertise’ seems to be in growing a church by merging with or swallowing up other ones? Is this going to be the Saddleback growth model going forward? Is this how Warren and the elders think Saddleback will be able to keep everything afloat?
.
Brian, the decision was made clear very early on that Rick’s replacement would not come from within the organization. It was going to come from the outside, an up and coming leader in the church world.
I heard this from a strong reliable voice on their team.
I’m curious if these firms who are hired to investigate such matters ever come up with a conclusion that is not favorable to the ones paying their fee.
Never thought I would read an article on TRR that cited Sutton Turner as a credible source and trashed Driscoll in within paragraphs of each other.
The source is Bob Sutton, not Sutton Turner.
Executive Search Firms, Lawyers, NDAs, Management Consultants, it sounds like being at work……..
Oh yea…. I forgot, the church of Jesus Christ is now being like run like a business.
I wonder what happens to the company when we evaluate the company’s Product Mix, hopefully Jesus will make the cut and still be supported……..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAiNhPqZcmI – – This sermon given in 2018 should have disqualified Andy Wood from consideration. Wood not only refuses to condemn homosexuality, he comes very close to endorsing it. He openly admits to having “a conversation with the LBGTG community” within his church. So instead of requiring repentance and turning from sin, Wood has a cozy, emotional “conversation”? Before God and Christ Jesus I tell you that the Lord is spewing this kind of coddling of sin out of his mouth. Shame on Rick Warren and his staff for even considering this unqualified man to lead his flock for the decades to come.
so, having a conversation with people of minority sexuality is sin?
when was the last time you read about how Jesus went about his life?
So Scottie, you consider homosexuality “minority sexuality”? When was the last time you read the apostle Paul? “But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one.” (1 Cor 5:11) Of course Paul is speaking of UNREPENTANT people…..but why in the world would anyone repent if their pastor just wants to “have a conversation” about their sexual immorality. Mark my words friends, this guy will be marrying gays and lesbians at Saddleback within 2 years.
i marvel how christians can only see Paul, and make Jesus disappear.
I marvel how Christians only hear what they want to hear. “Have you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, ‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate.” – Sorry, Scottie, you can’t make these words disappear, and neither can our gay friends make them disappear. Even God himself cannot make them disappear. His Word will not return unto him void.
Saddleback used to be on one of my pre-COVID routes home from work. The church itself is about the size and appearance of a large Wal-Mart, behind a ravine (“Aliso Creek”) with one four-lane driveway (“Saddleback Pkwy”) on a dedicated four-lane highway bridge connecting it to El Toro Blvd. Between Portola and the 241 toll road, just south of the hills itself (which in SoCal is the REAL pricy area). The actual “Campus” extends behind this, filling the half-mile triangle formed by El Toro Rd, Portola Pkwy, and the 241.
Scottie:
Probably, more like prepping Mr. Wood or grooming him on how to behave and what to say another puppet for the puppet masters! Dotting their i’s and crossing their t’s so no lawsuits arbitrations; or more bad press etc,.. Trinity Foundation in Dallas, TX that investigates corruption in churches/leaders; knows that entities like this hire PR Groups to erase bad press. Really wonder what motto and agenda is, big picture!
Been saying it for years that Church 501(c)3, people’s time and money is building their Real Estate Empire and Bank Accounts which Leaders live off of and help who?
Wonder how much money Saddleback has taken in since inception, where it went and who it helped and if ever lived James 1:27 and Matthew 25:31-end; if ever lived the God of the Bible?
Where’s Holiness, Righteousness, Repentance, Fasting, Prayer, Humility; Bible being a Living Epistle for ALL Humanity to see? Richard Carlson “within two years” sad; maybe that was motive, intent and agendal catering to the masses rather Matthew 7:13-14 walk (not going to assume. Fruit of it all, will come as truth will outlive the lie!