Russell Moore has a bit of advice for his fellow American Christians in his new book, “Losing Our Religion.”
Don’t lie.
A simple principle, based on the Ninth Commandment’s ban on bearing false witness, and one many Christian leaders are tempted to break by repeating claims that are popular but untrue, argues Moore.
“I’m not really talking to the people who are intending to deceive and destroy — yes, I would hope they stop lying too,” said Moore in a recent interview about the new book. “I’m talking more about the disconnect between what people really believe and what the expectations of the tribe demand. And that is what I see to be so dangerous and exhausting to people.”
Following Moore’s advice could come with consequences. The former Southern Baptist ethicist was a rising star in 2013, when he was elected president of the Southern Baptist Convention’s Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission after the group’s former leader left amid scandal. Moore was known for his love of 1970s outlaw country stars Waylon Jennings and Willie Nelson, his advocacy for immigration reform and his skepticism about the close ties between the Republican party and evangelicals.
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Things went well until the rise of Donald Trump. This turned evangelical leaders into would-be contestants on a real-life version of “The Apprentice” — the Mark Burnett-produced reality television series that starred Trump — “all clamoring to make the cut on the next episode and fearful of hearing the words you’re fired,” Moore writes in “Losing Our Religion,” out Tuesday from Sentinel, an imprint of Penguin Random House.
Moore’s criticism of Trump as a candidate and as president, along with his advocacy for survivors of abuse in the SBC, made him enemies and eventually cost him his job. In 2021, he resigned from the ERLC to take a new role at Christianity Today, where he is now the editor-in-chief.
His new book was inspired by conversations Moore has had in recent years with disillusioned evangelicals, some of whom he said are feeling a sense of despair at the state of the church and of American culture. The book is part altar call for his fellow evangelicals and part retelling of the surprising lessons he’s learned in recent years.
The book recounts Moore’s struggles to reconcile what he believed with how he saw Christian leaders acting during the Trump era. He recalls a Baptist leader who told him he was playing the game of leadership wrong. That leader suggested Moore give people “90% of the red meat they expect” — referring to conservative politics and the culture wars — and then he could spend 10% of his time on things he cared about, like immigration.
He also recalled being told to “get real” — meaning he should give up on naïve ideals like telling the truth or acting with personal integrity because the cultural and political stakes were too high for such niceties.
“People who have higher expectations for themselves and for others are often made to feel naive and stupid,” he said.
That willingness to do anything to succeed in politics, he writes, was rooted in the way churches treated celebrity pastors and leaders. As long as they got the job done, those celebrities could be terrible people and Christians would shrug it off.
That habit of overlooking the character flaws of Christian celebrities — such as disgraced former megachurch pastors Bill Hybels and Mark Driscoll or abusers like the late evangelist Ravi Zacharias — made it easier for evangelicals to overlook Trump’s flaws, Moore said in an interview.
The way that being a star pastor means you can get away with anything meant it was easier for Christians to accept unethical politicians.
“There’s always this sense of the mission is too important to be worried about character,” he said.
Moore said he often knew that something was wrong in Southern Baptist and evangelical circles but talked himself out of saying anything — because everyone else seemed to be acting as if everything was OK. He likened a famed meeting between SBC legends Paige Patterson and Judge Paul Pressler at the Cafe Du Monde in New Orleans that helped launch a conservative takeover of the nation’s largest Protestant denomination — to the SBC equivalent of Martin Luther nailing his 95 Theses to the Wittenberg door.
That mythology didn’t match the “Machiavellian lack of character” he saw among SBC leaders. Still, he said, it was as if there were things he was not allowed to notice or to say anything about. He realizes now that he should have trusted his instincts.
“When I look back over my life and ministry, there were countless times where my mind was wrong,” he said. “And there were a lot of times when my heart was wrong — but very few times where my gut was wrong.”
Many Christian leaders stay silent — or make claims they know are not true — out of fear, Moore argues in the book. Pastors who go along with the crowd get to keep their job. Those who step out of line are punished. And all it takes is a few angry donors or church members to make a pastor or leader’s life miserable.
He predicts that many pastors in the future will have day jobs or side hustles to protect themselves — rather than because the church can’t afford to pay them a salary.
“Pastors are increasingly not wanting to put their entire lives under the threat of one small group of people within a congregation,” he said.
Despite his concerns about the state of the church, Moore is hopeful. During his challenges, he’s made a number of new friends among people he used to view as “theological squishes” —people too willing to compromise on doctrine or theological lightweights. Among his dearest friends is bestselling author Beth Moore (no relation), herself now a former Southern Baptist, who helped him keep the faith at some of his worst moments.
He said he was grateful for these new friends and for the way people stuck by him in unexpected ways. He is also surprisingly hopeful about the future of the Christian church in America. In the interview, Moore recalled spending time teaching a semester at the University of Chicago, where he’d spent his days in the classroom and his evenings talking with groups of evangelical students — they would often ask practical questions about how to pray or how to relate to their fellow students in a secular setting.
Those students, he said, were serious about living out their faith.
“I would tell them, ‘I don’t think your classmates hate you as much as you think they do,’” he said. “’And if you would just have a little more confidence, then you actually could engage them.’”
These days, Moore gets hope from younger Christians, his friends, his faith — and the lessons of Willie Nelson. In the book, Moore tells the stories of Nelson’s early struggles to break into country music, only to fail because he was trying to be someone he was not.
Nelson left Nashville, traded country music’s marketing and rhinestone cowboys for bandanas and a more authentic sound, and found an audience, along with fellow outsiders like Jennings.
There’s a lesson in that for Christians, he said.
“Often there will be a small group of people who look like dissenters and rebels but who actually love and care about their institution or their tradition,” he said. “But it means there’s going to be change.”
Bob Smietana is a national reporter for Religion News Service.
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63 Responses
Russell Moore is one the most solid voices today in American Christianity.
I’m glad he is doing what he is doing. God will reward him for his faithfulness to truth, rather than people and power.
If your admired friend is Willy Nelson and you venture into political opinions but have nothing to say about the present, absolutely most corrupt leadership in our government to date, you really have no credibility in my opinion.
sadly, this is the exact kind of comment illustrating that the people that need to read and hear the message the most will cast stones and walk away
Yes, evangelicals have no tolerance for corruption. That is why we are seeing them line up behind solid conservatives like Pence and Haley who haven’t started their campaigns with hush money. Maybe we should be concerned about our own credibility.
“No tolerance for corruption”…? I think you may have misspelled “near absolute”.
Trump expanded his support among White evangelicals, winning 84% of their vote in 2020 after receiving 77% in 2016. Maybe Russel Moores advice….
84% is above the 80/20 threshold where Groupthink locks in and the 20% of Traitors are Purged by any means necessary.
“absolutely most corrupt leadership in our government to date”
Seriously? No one has gone to prison from this so call corrupt administration. We lost count from the previous one. Eventually the leader of the pack will be going too, on numerous offenses.
I just wish for once, people would stop hiding and just admit what it is you actually like about the harsh, hateful, unloving desires of today’s Republican party.
Just say, you want a divided society again. You want the rich to get richer, and the poor to get poorer. Just say it.
How with a straight face, you all can claim this “person” is good for anything but his own ego and pockets is astounding! His own administration said he was dumb and unfit on top of it all. After all we have been thru, this AGAIN?!
IT IS HIS HATEFUL, DIVISIVE DESIRES that people want too! Please stop the con that it is somehow for God.
The secular world isn’t buying it. Neither are good, real, decent, mature Christians who love honor and serve God – and this country. How in God’s name, does the GOP represent God with all of its baggage and characters?
Ugh, Russell Moore is the epitome of everything that’s wrong with evangelicalism today. The guy needs to take his own advise about lying. The dude literally wrote emails just so he could intentionally leak them and paint himself in a more positive light. First we were stuck with closet-catholic Mark Galli and now Russell. No wonder they call it Christianity Astray now.
Hahaha
Who is “they”? calling it this?
Not judging, just wondering.
I am all for truthful, biblical criticisms of our leaders, and I have many criticisms of former President Trump and now President Biden.
I remember arguing to a friend in 2016 that yes, Trump would energize the Republican party, make some good Supreme Court nominations, be pro-life, and have some good policies. But in the process, because of his poor character, his awful tongue, his arrogance, his self-centeredness, etc, etc, he would damage the party, conservatives, and much of evangelical Christianity in the process.
But let’s be even-handed in our criticism. Don’t Christians and pastors that support President Biden, and doesn’t President Biden himself, deserve the same criticism for positions that directly oppose God’s word in matters of life, gender, sexuality, marriage, race, parenting, and so on? Doesn’t this administration and its supporters have their own set of lies they tell and perpetuate?
I think they do, and Russell Moore and we should call them out as well.
Who are the nationally known pastors / Christians who are vocally praising / abetting the Biden admin?… Ok, some mainline / theologically liberal folk? Well, that’s not my (or yours I assume) tribe/camp. So, no – I or you don’t need to call ‘them’ out as well. In a sense they and their choices aren’t my or my tribe’s business. God (as evidenced in the Word, especially the Apostle Paul example) calls me / us to pay attention to our own house which has become a den of thieves and liars of which the majority of them, especially with nationally known platforms all bow down, loudly and proudly, to their real king, Trump (or the GOP).
The Christian Evangelical movement doesn’t/didn’t support President Biden. Moore’s criticism is on the way that movement got behind Trump. Moore is not praising the work of Biden but calling out Christians who practically worshiped Trump. Sometimes there are no good choices in politics and you have to plug your nose and pick one. For 2016, I thought Trump was the lesser of two evils but I was so very disappointed in him. His arrogance and bully behavior, and honestly very stupid (drink clorox?) behavior, left me embarrassed all the time. I was always afraid of what he would say or do next and felt that if his lips were moving, he was lying. I feel he was likely the most corrupt politician in US history. He is a farce and a stain on US politics. He felt he is above the law and could do whatever he wanted because he’s been doing that all his life. Oh and how much did he pay in taxes? And why did he insist in keeping his taxes hidden? Of course, bc he doesn’t pay much. His dishonesty and lack of integrity knows no bounds.
Most Evangelicals do it right (I hope) but many need to learn that ‘the truth’ (Theological and moral propositions) can be very different than being ‘truthful’.
Russell Moore is correct about required repentance in the U.S. Evangelical church.
However, as pointed out in the article, Machiavellian leadership in church along with pastors who are afraid to speak out means nothing will happen.
I look at what happened recently at Ralph Reed’s Faith And Freedom conference, where a thug like Trump is given standing ovations, while Pence who is a born-again Christian is booed……and the people attending the conference are almost entirely evangelical….
Well, Pence is a weasel too, happy to sell out his faith to support and enable trump. Trump was a liar and a grifter and corrupt, but so was Pence because he stood by trump and gave him credibility.
I get that’s not why they were booing him, but the guy doesn’t deserve praise.
I believe Russell Moore voted for Carter, a vile anti-Semite in 1980. Christians must vote for freedom, a sound economy, a robust energy patch, a robust military that can strike anywhere at anytime and religious freedom. The D party has never supported any of that.
“Christians must vote for freedom, a sound economy, a robust energy patch, a robust military that can strike anywhere at anytime and religious freedom. The D party has never supported any of that.”
With all due respect Paul, have you ever heard of Franklin D. Roosevelt?
or Jesus? “My kingdom is not of this world” – Paul Kulvi: you’re talking about a theocracy or a theonamy and that’s just not what the church is called to do or be.
Christian’s should vote for love above all so if we love our neighbor as ourselves then everything we vote should come from that, so welcoming immigrants, sacrificing for others, like laying down our lives for our brothers, not strengthening our military. Are you serious right now? How is that following Jesus? Would Jesus pick up guns/weapons to fight His creation? Caring for the planet that He created for us. Casting out corrupt politicians. Corruption should have no has no place in government. But above all, love.
Where exactly in scripture do you find backing for…. any of those voting propositions as “Christian”? because God didn’t let Israel have a standing military, and for the first couple thousand years of Christianity, the early church were consistently anti-military, and didn’t believe you could cause violence to another for any reason. Freedom, economy, energy, and even religious freedom and nowhere to be found in scripture (other than freedom in Christ), and repeatedly Christians are called to lay down their rights for others.
you can like all those ideas all you want, but they’re certainly. not “Christian”.
Jen,
While I believe that politics will not solve the hate and division that ails our country today, I am guessing that you, your loved ones and like minded friends take advantage of the following politically won improvements to the lives of Americans.
The 8 hour workday, overtime pay, ending child labor, federal minimum wage, the weekend, women’s right to vote, civil rights act, unemployment insurance, pell grants, national parks systems, voting rights act, social security, medicare, clean water act, universal public schools. And you probably will not understand when I include Obamacare unless you have or had a relative that was seriously injured as a child and became uninsurable as an adult even while working a full time job. This piece of ugliness was completely due to the greed of health insurance corporations.
Which are you willing to give up in light of the fact that there is no mention of them in the Bible?
In my opinion this kind of talk is utter nonsense, and that some like to focus on it because it’s much easier than looking at the truth about sexual predators running rampant in the church, protected by their minions and ignored by cowards.
I am all for utilizing government as a tool, and vote for all of those social programs and more, because I see it as a way to use my privilege as a citizen to do justice for those who are marginalize.
to be clear, I am responding to the idea that christians are supposed to vote for a “freedom” (good as a concept, but america mostly means for white, property owning men when it uses this term), sound economy (only in as much as it brings justice for the poor, what we have actively exploits the poor in favor of the wealthy), energy patch (don’t know what this means, but if it’s anything but drastically reducing our corporate carbon use, it’s nothing to me), religious freedom (fine as long as it’s for everyone, including freedom FROM religion), and a robust military (strong disagree based on the early church’s position on violence. plus, our military is mostly used to secure wealth and oil at the cost of the countries we’re “peacekeeping” in).
That said, I will gladly give up any right I have afforded by my citizenship or birthright for the sake of justice. I don’t advocate for policies that force people to give up rights awarded by our constitution- but that’s just it. they’re constitutional, not biblical. and too many white american evangelicals conflate the two. that was my point, and I was responding to Paul’s post, which I could have been more clear about.
For the most part I have stopped engaging in political discussions. The last one I let my myself be drawn into was with a new neighbor.
She assumed I was also a right wing Republican Christian. When I told her I was a democrat, everything changed, she wanted to argue. She had nothing to back up most of her arguments, so when she realized she could not win the discussion with sound arguments she pulled her Christian rank on me, letting me know that she was born again at the age of 6 and has followed the Lord since, and based on that standing her political views trump mine. No pun intended.
When I saw her later she let me know that her very Christian husband could not forgive me.
I never stated that you should give up your rights as a citizen. I asked what if any of the many privileges won by politics you would be willing to give up based on the fact that they are not in the Bible.
This is also a reminder to myself to stay out of political discussions, online and off. Politics won’t solve the church’s predator problem.
I apologize for my part in the misunderstanding.
100% – many modern evangelicals have conflated the constitution – a document based at best theist, Enlightenment ideas into being holy, unalterable scripture divinely brought down from Mount Vernon and handed to a glowing George Washington by God himself. Far too many people are worried about the second amendment when they should be worried that they’ve turned the constitution into a violation of the second commandment.
The Constitution is not holy, infallible, immutable, or inspired. So choose us this day who we will serve. Will we lay down our man-made rights for our neighbor’s good, or will we wipe our tears with filthy rags, stand silent for a moment, and call it holy?
True liberty is found in the gospel. True security is found in Christ. True freedom is living in the kingdom of God.
What if revival swept through the American church, and in brokenness and repentance, we finally said ‘Enough! Our God is bigger than our founding parchments, bigger than our recreational sport, and bigger than our fear. So we lay these things at the foot of the cross.’
Also Paul K., if Russell Moore voted for Carter, that would be a pretty good trick since Moore (born 1971) would have been 4 or 5 years old in 1976 and around 10 in 1980…
Paul, you have ticked all of the boxes for what christian nationalists vote for… wonder what Jesus would vote like? You know… the kingdom is now, within you, love your neighbor… etc… Jesus would’ve been called racist names and tortured by conservatives and christian nationalists had he been living now.
Russell Moore was born in 1971. He was way too young to vote in 1980.
Russell Moore could not have voted for Jimmy Carter because Moore was only nine years old in 1980 and therefore too young to cast a ballot.
Wow Gordon, you’re missing a bunch of context here. Pence was booed based on his view of the Ukraine war and what our involvement in it should be. But back to the topic –evangelicals are NOT overlooking Trump’s flaws but are always voting for the best candidate available. The GOP may give us Trump again to run in 2024 and we will certainly vote for him again (not because he is virtuous) but because of the Biden Crime Family. We voted for Trump in 2016 because Hillary was/is corrupt as well. Unfortunately politics is dirty and that is why some people chose to not participate but I believe in being salt and light, so we vote for the ‘least bad’. Too bad Russell Moore doesn’t understand that.
@Scott
When you say politics is dirty…. does that also include politics in the church… I have seen it my whole life, where incredible Machiavellian maneuvers are done on a routine basis within church …. it is one reason why Trump and the Evangelicals love each other…. because they understand each other…. as I like to say to people at church… the people loved Mussolini….. so much for salt being salty
Don’t kid yourself…Trump’s also Trump Crime Family and his corruption knows no bounds but I get that sometimes you have to plug your nose and vote for one. My choice will never be Trump again. Russell understands that but he, like I evidently see Trump as the most corrupt of any of the choices. My Christian conscience would never let me vote for him again.
Russell wrote a compelling op-ed piece in the recent edition of the Atlantic in which he discusses young evangelicals seeking his advice on how to relate to their parents and mentors, who are more obsessed with political/cultural wars and conspiracy theories than prayer or the Bible. Unfortunately this thread confirms that gap isn’t likely to close anytime soon.
We need to get politics out of our pulpit and stop determining someone’s salvation by their political affiliation – that is all lies and false narratives designed by men to polarize and position themselves for power. We must get back to the unchanging everlasting truth by getting back to the Bible.
Most agreed.
On a related note……
Sadly a quasi form of Gnosticism exists in Evangelicalism today. Like many of the Gnostics in the early church there are those today who elevate the spiritual (Their interpretation of the Bible and theological convictions) and disregard everything else to embrace an “end justifies the means’ approach to the faith that spreads misinformation and lies and tries to gaslight those who disagree with them.
George:
Your comments got me curious, so I looked up “Gnosticism.”
“There is actually no such thing as Christian Gnosticism, because true Christianity and Gnosticism are mutually exclusive systems of belief. The principles of Gnosticism contradict what it means to be a Christian. Therefore, while some forms of Gnosticism may claim to be Christian, they are in fact decidedly non-Christian.” https://www.gotquestions.org/Christian-gnosticism.html
I am not sure interpreting the Bible and having theological convictions that differ from someone else’s can rise to the level of “a quasi form of Gnosticism.” Could you explain what you mean?
Thanks.
Hi Cynthia. There have been people with Gnostic tendencies that have tried to combine them with Christianity. This was a first century problem and the problem has continued to the present day. The Greek word ‘pleroma’ in Colossians 1:9, was a technical term for Gnostics. That’s why Paul used it. https://www.gotquestions.org/pleroma.html
See: https://www.oca.org/orthodoxy/the-orthodox-faith/church-history/second-century/protecting-the-church-from-falsehood-and-heresy
and
https://www.wondriumdaily.com/gnosticism-shadow-of-orthodox-christianity/
I agree with a lot of what Russell Moore and his friends are saying about lying, abuse in the church and the desire to hold fast to orthodoxy. Abusers in the Church need to be weeded out and turned over to the proper authorities, as many of them have.
However, Moore et al are just as guilty of dragging divisive politics into the church as those they oppose. How can Trump or Biden or any President be “bad for the church”? What does the Gospel have to do with Caesar? The only political issue that has a direct impact on the church is religious freedom, which determines whether believers can worship and practice publicly, but has no effect on how we are to live, what we believe, and what the LORD has asked us to do. We still need to be living as a holy people, set apart for Him.
My problem with this line of reasoning about Trump is: what is the alternative? The alternative to Trump was Clinton and then Biden, both of whom we know – and knew at the time! – to be corrupt, pro-death, and destructive to American freedom (religious, speech, etc), economy, and society. Shouldn’t the Church also speak out against them (and their supporters) with the same vehemence? It seems you either need to be engaged politically (acknowledging the fallenness ALL human beings – even those in politics – carry) or simply stay out of politics all together, but either way, you shouldn’t be religious about politics or politicians, but only be religious about Jesus. Because to attack one candidate (or Christian’s support of him) without applying equal measure to the opposition seems like you are just echoing the narrative of whatever worldly camp the secular diaspora currently embraces.
Biden crime family?
That’s the hill you’re willing to die on here? Hunter has never been elected- an unelected civilian with the same expectations on him as anyone else.
But with all the evidence, this is the hill?
Scary. Last time christian nationalism went this unchecked anytime in history, the holocaust happened. Imagine your vote going down in history like that.
Rob, it’s baffling to me that christians can name “the biden crime family” talking point, but fully ignore the actual crime syndicate that trump and his kids ran from the actual white house. they write off the current prosecutions as a witch hunt, and are unwilling to consider any of the (vast amounts) of evidence. I don’t know if it’s hypocrisy or just unwillingness to acknowledge they could be wrong, but it’s been horrific for the white evangelical church in america. it’s lost any salt and light it had, and has no witness to an unbelieving world.
Jen, I totally agree. “Jesus and John Wayne” and “The Power Worshippers” have been helpful, eye opening books for me. It’s not just hypocrisy, it’s in the code.
Jen:
Name the crimes our former president’s kids committed. Thanks. Also, please remember that the gates of Hell cannot prevail against Christ’s church. There is more than enough salt and light all over the world. The church is growing in China, the Middle East, and South America, to name just a few places. The “white evangelical church in america” (your words) is a small part of Christ’s body.
FACTS are so important.
Cynthia,
The Trump Foundation in 2017 admitted in court it had been “self dealing” charity funds to themselves. Trump and all three of his children are banned from operating another charity. All three children had to attend court ordered ethics training.
Don Jr. and Eric Trump were running the Trump Organization that earlier this year was found guilty of criminal tax evasion.
They are also defendants in another trial later this year where they valued Trump properties at an artificially high price to obtain large loans while giving low valuations for tax purposes.
Are you sure you want to vouch for their ethics?
Greg,
Thanks for filling me in.
Interestingly, the Trump Foundation money came from the Trump family and not from Ukraine, China, or Romania. Also, the Trump children are talented individuals who earn their money. Apparently, Letitia James is operating a Stalin-like vendetta against the entire Trump family.
Am I excusing criminal behavior? No way! SIN is SIN is SIN. On the other hand, I have a very hard time believing the Trumps are guilty of anything serious other than being incredibly wealthy and incredibly hated.
Do you think the Biden family earned their money? Do you think they are ethical?
Do you want to compare the accomplishments of the Trump children to Hunter Biden’s “accomplishments”?
I believe God views all sin as equally damning, don’t you? So, if we are going to disparage our former President, we will have to point out the moral failures of the current one, too.
and let us not forget the attempted coup they all aided and abetted. Facts are so important.
Greg,
My post was deleted, so you will have to imagine what I would have answered.
So sorry. The main gist was that we need to be consistent when it comes to judging politicians. You cannot malign one without applying the same standards to the other.
One other quick point….Plea deals often have people claiming guilt where there is none and claiming NO guilt where there is guilt. This recently happened in the Hunter Biden case.
Cynthia,
It is not a vendetta to force business to pay their taxes and to make sure that crooks don’t abuse the tax codes with their “charities.”
Trump used his “charity” to pay off a lawsuit when he failed to pay the winner of a million dollar hole in one contest. Why should taxpayers foot the bill for that?
Why do you call it “vendetta” to enforce the laws against things like this?
Trump’s advertised his luxurious triplex home in Trump Tower home as being an enormous 30,000 square feet, when it was actually just a third of that size, according to the attorney general’s office. Based partly on that misrepresentation, the organization said in a financial statement in 2015 that the apartment was worth $327 million.
https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/absurd-heres-how-much-letitia-james-said-trump-inflated-his-properties-worth-by/3875678/
“…But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.”
(Matthew 7:14)
Why would anyone seek God when politicians are the answer? No need to control behavior through a changed heart. “Conservatives” can bring about Utopia on Earth by eliminating sin you know, the way laws have eliminated murder and rape etc…
The lies, manipulation, hypocrisy. power grabbing, money hungry, elevation of politics over God… are the reasons for church decline. Christianity appears to be yet one- more- scam.
How ironic that the very people claiming to speak for God, are pushing people to the broad road too.
The tone of lots of comments here are indicative of why I left christianity and many others are leaving too. The nones will continue to rise as long as hatred and political alliances matter more than what is actually said by Jesus.
Rob,
I hope and pray that when you say you have “left Christianity,” that you’re actually saying you’re trying to reconcile all that is obviously wrong. I understand your disappointment.
History repeats itself. Remember Israel had God but He wasn’t enough. They wanted a “king” like today’s Christians are saying stuff like, “We need a warrior.”
Saul was truly lacking character, but they liked him anyway. God did not. Even Saul’s kids acknowledged his sinful ways. God admonished us that we may overlook character, but He does not. He looks at the HEART. God removed Saul.
The church will rebound from this era, and He will cleanse His Church because it belongs to HIM and “the gates of Hell shall NOT prevail against it.”
Men may fail us. God will not. Love and prayers
I agree there are many here coming very close to denying the points made in the article.
Some are resorting to ad-hominem attacks on Moore (Yes he has his faults) in attempts to discredit his message.If Evangelicals are going to move forward they need to carefully look at themselves in the mirror and ask “What are we doing wrong?”
While I personally have not dismissed Christianity I no longer affiliate or identify as an Evangelical. I have too many problems with the subculture and in light of what has happened to the movement over the last few years I am safely an outsider .
I will you well in your journey.
Regarding Trump, my belief was we were rendering unto Caesar what is Caesar’s, Trump is not Jesus, but who among us can throw the first stone without Him, we have no authority.
At Trump- who will cast the first stone? I will. I’ve never talked about women the way he has- on recording. I’m not a womanizer- as he admits. I have never sexually assaulted anyone. I don’t use money to try to move or bully people. I don’t use hate speech to rile masses to use violence to try and overthrow a governmental building, government or stop electoral votes from being counted.
I have lots more stones. I gave half my life to a country I’m terribly ashamed to even be in anymore.
@Rob
You’re not alone. I just recently listened to a podcast (Red Letter Christians) and a soldier was on there who felt devastated at what she was a part of as US Military in Afghanistan. Unable to get rid of images no one should ever see, so heartbroken over what took place there, etc. I pray for you my brother and I pray for all our military. They should never be asked to do some of the things they are asked. One time I heard a veteran say he can’t sleep bc when he closes his eyes, he relives he’ll. Our country did that to him. It breaks my heart. I’m praying for you Rob and all our men & women put in positions no one should have to be put in. I, too, left the church but not Jesus. He alone has my heart and my vote. Peace to you.
Greg Culross:
Here is why I would call this situation a “vendetta,” in answer to your question. According to an online dictionary, one meaning of the word “vendetta” is “a prolonged bitter quarrel with or campaign against someone.”
“Tish James vowed in her 2018 campaign for attorney general to pursue a man she said was an “illegitimate president” and an “embarrassment.” To Donald Trump, James, the first Black woman to hold statewide office in New York, is a “racist” prosecutor engaged in a “witch hunt” against him.” https://www.politico.com/news/2022/09/21/james-lawsuit-trump-longstanding-battle-00058128
Regarding the charges against our former President, it is quite difficult to imagine he will receive a fair trial when it is being driven by a woman who ran on the promise to destroy him.
Frankly, I think Ms. James makes a mockery of our judicial system with her biased approach to all things Trump, don’t you? The best AGs must be impartial. At the very least, they don’t advertise their hatred to the media and the world.
We will have to wait and see how the October trial pans out, won’t we? Apparently, the charges against Ivanka have been dropped due to the Statute of Limitations.
He is not only facing charges in NY. He’s also facing charges in Florida (document and obstruction trial), likely charges in Georgia (election tampering, racketeering, etc), The E. Jean Carrol cases, and there will likely be indictments for conspiracy around 1/6. It’s not some grand conspiracy to get him. it’s justice- him being president prevented him from facing the consequences of his crimes, and now he’s being held accountable.
If Biden is committing crime, we need to hold him accountable too. So far none of the investigations against him have proven anything credible.
Jen:
Thanks for your comments. I agree that ANYONE who commits a crime should be held accountable.
I was speaking with Greg about the definition of “vendetta” in reference to Letitia James. Apparently, she is also under investigation regarding Mr. Khan, a former employee, who is accused of committing sexual abuse.
Presidents who commit crimes should definitely be held accountable. Unfortunately, in President Trump’s case, we seem to be holding to a different standard of justice. Many, even in the media, have defined it as “mob justice.” This happens when public hatred of someone takes over the impartiality requirement.
Our judicial system is supposed to be blind. Do you think it is when it comes to President Trump?
Cynthia,
I think we need to stop putting tribalism over truth.
Regardless of her motives, if she has evidence of Trump’s wrongdoing then why shouldn’t she prosecute? And shame on Trump for flagrantly breaking the law when he was being pursued. (Most people who are being followed by a police officer try to make sure they are going the speed limit, using turn signals, etc. They don’t stop, rob a bank then blame the cop for bias.)
Julie and TRR has the same struggle. She can write a thoroughly documented article showing John MacArthur excommunicated an abuse survivor named Eileen Gray, include David Gray’s hand written confession, sworn affidavits and court transcripts, yet most in MacArthur’s tribe won’t even look at the facts, since Julie “has a vendetta” against JM.
So my questions for you are,
– If Trump’s lawyer was prosecuted, convicted and sent to prison for his illegal payment to Trump’s porn star, shouldn’t Trump also be prosecuted?
– If Trump illegally inflated the value of his properties to banks to obtain high loans, and devalued the same properties to pay lower taxes, shouldn’t he be prosecuted?
– And in the Mar a Lego document case, if hid classified documents from a court subpoena and had his employees destroy video evidence, shouldn’t he be prosecuted?
Ultimately it will only take one jurist out of twelve for him to get off, regardless of the facts and any evidence showing his guilt.
My guess is that if he does get off, it will because of that on jurist who will put tribe over truth.
Greg:
Here are some answers to your questions:
1) If Trump’s lawyer was prosecuted, convicted and sent to prison for his illegal payment to Trump’s porn star, shouldn’t Trump also be prosecuted?
My understanding is that Mr. Cohen “was sentenced to prison in December 2018 after pleading guilty to campaign finance charges and lying to Congress, among other crimes. In all, he spent about 13 1/2 months behind prison walls and a year and a half in home confinement. His time was further reduced through good behavior.” (AP News). His jail term had very little to do with Stormy Daniels. President Trump has consistently denied the Court’s biased interpretation of what went down regarding Daniels. She had her defamation case dropped and was also ordered to pay Mr. Trump. So, I would have to say Mr. Trump should not be prosecuted for something others may or may not have done.
2) “If Trump illegally inflated the value of his properties to banks to obtain high loans, and devalued the same properties to pay lower taxes, shouldn’t he be prosecuted?”
Banks generally do their “due diligence” when it comes to giving out loans. Indeed, many banks are likely familiar with Mr. Trump and can easily determine whether he is telling the truth. Further, President Trump’s tax records are now readily available, thanks to the short-sighted Democrats in Congress. So, any devaluation of “the same properties” would likely be known by the IRS. Has the IRS brought any charges against Mr. Trump? If not, why not?
With respect – In my opinion, Democrats are “Above the Law.”
God be praised that President Trump recognized Jerusalem as the capital of Israel! And moved the United States embassy to Jerusalem. Israel has no better friends than Christians, but unfortunately enemies among false Christians who promote the BDS movement.
To the people of goodwill, please remember:
Who is so deaf, or so blind, as is he, that willfully will not hear nor see.
—John Heywood, 1546
Hear now this, O foolish people, without understanding; which have eyes, and see not; which have ears, and hear not.
—Jeremiah 5:21, pretty old too.
The more things change the more they remain the same.
—Alphonse Karr, 1808-1890
Today it’s called “owning the libs”, or anyone for that matter who dares to question them.
Greg,
3) “And in the Mar a Lego document case, if hid classified documents from a court subpoena and had his employees destroy video evidence, shouldn’t he be prosecuted?”
I’m not sure about the law when it comes to Presidents and their ability to declare documents “unclassified.” So, at this point, I haven’t got an opinion. If he was legally allowed, as President, to de-classify documents, then there is no real case.
Cynthia,
1) You claim Trump should not be prosecuted for illegal payments to his porn star since he *has denied* those allegations.
Also Trump, when asked about his relationship with God, has denied committing any sins and has no need to ask for God’s forgiveness.
So how much faith should we put in his denials?
2) Trump is not accused of defrauding the United States government with his real estate scheme. He defrauded New York, which is why NY is bringing charges, not the IRS.
3) Trump in the Mar a Lago case is being charged with possession of government records and obstruction of the investigation. The prosecutor did not to charge Trump with possessing classified documents, which avoids Trump’s embarrassing defense over “declassifing those documents in his mind.”
So it’s simple- Was Trump entitled to have the documents? And did he, like Nixon, attempt to destroy evidence when the court ordered that he turn them over?
Hopefully jurors will look at and consider the evidence.
Greg,
Oh my. That’s all I can say. Your interpretation of our former President’s actions does not comport with the law. Further, it reveals you do not understand Mr. Trump’s sense of humor.
Perhaps you should consult with an attorney to better understand the charges? Just a suggestion.
Until you do, I think it best that I sign off now. Thanks so much for your comments.
Friends can we please keep our brother Rob in our prayers. That he would come back to his faith in Jesus, and all those in our military who are asked to do things that they are uncomfortable with snd see things that no one should see, that killing our neighbors would stop, pray for our country that we would love our neighbors as ourselves. And that these politics and politicians would not tear us apart. Many are not Christians and we can’t expect them to act like Christians but they should stop dancing with evangelicals. We will likely have to plug our nose and vote.once again but that too, seems corrupt. That you have to be a gazilliionaire to run for office. I’m sure many with less $ would make great presidents and politicians but we’ll never get them bc of a corrupt system. Lord have mercy!