“Don’t ever think you’re going to use those gifts of a pastor in the Southern Baptist Convention.”
Our interviewer looked me square in the eyes as he read me the results of my spiritual gifts test. My husband, Kelly, and I were 25 years old, meeting in Atlanta with the SBC Home Mission Board. Earlier that year in 1996, as we graduated from Dallas Theological Seminary, we said “yes” to God’s call to church planting.
Our Southern Baptist Church in Grand Prairie, Texas, where my husband served as interim pastor, sent us to that year’s SBC convention in New Orleans. There, after Dr. Bob Reccord’s plenary message, God very clearly called Kelly and me to plant, not just a church, but a Southern Baptist church. Through that decision, He ultimately led us to Colorado. Here, the Colorado SBC leaders welcomed us and found us the opportunity to apply for the church planter apprentice program.
Giving God our word
When we gave God our “yes” to church planting, we promised to do what He told us to do regardless of how the provision came, who believed in us, or what opposition we faced. Still, the opportunity for some monthly support from the SBC was almost too good to be true. We decided to apply.
The rigorous process included personality tests, background checks, recommendations, interview calls, and spiritual gifts tests. We followed the vetting process prayerfully. Finally, we were flown to SBC headquarters to meet for our final interviews and assessments. We were excited and nervous, but nothing prepared us for the way it all unfolded. The denouement moment came when the interviewer read us our spiritual gifts test results. He started with Kelly’s and then read mine.
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Allowed to use your spiritual gifts — unless you’re a woman
We all know Scripture teaches that spiritual gifts are from God. He chooses who gets which gifts; He decides how they are appointed. 1 Corinthians 12:11 clarifies, “It is the one and only Spirit who distributes all these gifts. He alone decides which gift each person should have.”
Nonetheless, our interviewer told me, after reading my test results, that my gifts were nullified because I am a woman. “Your spiritual gifts are those of a pastor,” he said, “and don’t ever think you’re going to use those gifts of a pastor in the Southern Baptist Convention.” He didn’t open other doors or offer suggestions for how to use my God-given spiritual gifts in different ways. He simply, firmly and arrogantly told me what I would never do and knocked the wind out of me.
The battle to say yes to church planting was the biggest act of submission in my entire young life. My husband and I were seeking to courageously enter this lifelong ministry of starting and leading a church. We needed every resource, every fiber of strength, every ounce of resolve, every bit of partnership, every piece of our seminary training, every word of encouragement, AND every spiritual gift God has given the two of us. But there, in that meeting room, one of us had point-blank been invalidated and had our hands tied behind our backs.
Kelly and I returned to our hotel room, both stunned by the blow. The next day we were on a plane back to Colorado, back to a state out West where the Southern Baptist leadership believed in us as a couple. They unbound our hands and allowed us to begin the overwhelming work of church planting.
Still keeping our word
Almost 27 years later, my husband is still the senior pastor of Vanguard Church. We have seen 3,350 public professions of faith through baptisms, the last of which I was privileged to perform for a boy named Kael a couple of weeks ago. I’ve faithfully served alongside Kelly all these years using the spiritual gifts God has given me.
What some people would call a coincidence, the Rev. Kelly Williams, pastor of Vanguard Church in Colorado Springs, sees as absolute evidence of God’s blessings.https://t.co/jPS1NzPLbp
— The Gazette (@csgazette) February 28, 2022
I started the Family Disciple Me ministry, and I’ve led thousands of people through the decades. Along the way, some have begun to call me “Pastor Tosha.” To be clear, I have not sought, nor do I have the official title of “pastor.” However, I am grateful that my husband affirms that I am not just a Mrs., as important as that is. My pastor husband also affirms my God-given spiritual gifts, which happen to align with those of a pastor, writing about women in leadership.
Truth is, I may be called “Pastor Tosha,” but I am not overtaking his role, subverting the elders’ authority or striving to rule over men. My commission has been to submissively, and yet simultaneously, courageously, boldly, vocally and lead all those God has entrusted to me.
I know I’m not the only woman with this calling.
The SBC keeping its word
Turns out, in recent weeks, the Southern Baptist Convention is true to its word given me years ago, voting to communicate to every woman gifted by God with pastoral gifts: “You will never use those gifts of a pastor in the Southern Baptist Convention.”
The thing is, I will also be true to my word. Back in 1996, I made a promise with my husband to God that we were going to serve Him for a lifetime, leading a church and using every gift and resource He has given us. It’s not about titles; it’s about faithful, enduring commitment to the sovereign God who made us.
I don’t know what the future holds regarding the SBC and Vanguard Church — or any other Southern Baptist church with women who serve in pastoral roles or have pastoral gifts. But I do know this. I have not been called by men. I have been called by God, and I will keep my word and obey Him as long as He gives me breath.
May such be so in your life, as well.
The opinions expressed in this article do not necessarily reflect the views of The Roys Report.
Tosha Lamdin Williams is married to senior pastor Kelly M. Williams and the mother of five. She co-founded Vanguard Church of Colorado Springs in 1997 and started the nonprofit Family Disciple Me, which provides free, easily accessible discipleship resources. She is a graduate of Liberty University (BS Communications, 1993) and Dallas Theological Seminary (MABS, 1996).
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23 Responses
What an uplifting and encouraging testimony of faith and courage expressed through a spirit of humility and obedience to the call of God.
Makes my day!
Randall Allison
I think Tosha has had the right attitude in using the gifts God has given her. I don’t care what the name of those gifts are; Tosha is humbly serving the Lord and bearing fruit with her service.
When a denominational headquarters staff person puts his denominational stance above the clear gifting of the Holy Spirit, how is that not both quenching and grieving the Holy Spirit? How would that not be a glaring clue that the denomination just might have gotten it wrong?
Kathleen, as a couple of folks have noted below, her testimony fails to address the key issue, namely, the Biblical justification for her holding the office of pastor, and specifically a Biblical response to the texts which seem to prohibit such. The “clear gifting of the Holy Spirit” is not a basis upon which to make such a decision. Evangelicals are people of the Word; “sola Scriptura” indicates that our bottom line is, to put it as the Evangelical Free Church does, “where stands it written?” If there is Bible justification, then argue on this ground. Absent that, while I can applaud so much of her testimony and God’s use of Vanguard Church, her argument falls flat.
And Holy Scripture clearly teaches that women can serve in pastoral ministry. So yes, there is biblical justification.
This is why I referenced 1 Timothy 2:12 – 3:7 and Titus 1:5-9 in my question in a separate post, because both passages of Scripture contradict the idea of women serving in pastoral ministry based on the qualifications listed in those passages.
Bob, pretty sure that at the very least, that interpretation is debatable, rather than “clear”.
Oh, really? Please show me where it clearly teaches that.
Byron: well said! A Scriptural basis should always take precedence over any man-made evaluation.
Although the article mentions Tosha being submitted to her husband (who is the senior pastor) and not striving to rule over men, I did notice that the podcast information for Vanguard Church identifies Kelly and Tosha Williams as both senior pastors of the church. My question is this: From a Biblical standpoint, how is it that she is able to fulfill such a role in light of 1 Timothy 2:12 – 3:7 and Titus 1:5-9, keeping in mind that while the Holy Spirit gives gifts to each believer, including women, the application and practice of those gifts are to be done in accordance with Scripture (also given by inspiration of the Holy Spirit who won’t contradict His own work)?
Taking a “spiritual test”(man made) is not the plumb line of whether someone is called to Pastor, the word of God is. That does not mean a women cannot have the gift to teach. However, clearly scripture teaches a women is not to be a Pastor, Elder, Overseer in a local fellowship.
There are many other places in the life of the church where she can exercise her gift. But you cannot deny the clarity of the ordered roles in the church.
The label “pastor” – or the status it conveys – seems to be extraordinarily important in some of these situations.
My church has a “Director of Religious Education,” a “Youth Evangelization Coordinator,” and an “Adult Education Coordinator.” Would calling these employees “Education Pastors” change their jobs? We have a “Director of Music” and a “Spanish Music Director.” Would calling them “Worship Pastors” change their jobs?
The SBC is not my teapot, though.
When I read this, I really pick up on the “destiny” language – words like “called”, “obey”, and the implication of certainty and divine mandate. I see this in mostly male pastors, so this isn’t a comment on female pastors.
I think the idea of “calling” is so subjective as to be almost meaningless. What I would love to see are pastors (male or female) in organizations in which they have clear job descriptions, regular evaluations, and accountability by church members that do not venerate them. In a context like that, character and competency will outweigh any idea of “calling”.
Paul, thoughtful points made. I have never met a pastor who did NOT sense being called; most remember a deeply meaningful experience when God instructed vocational ministry through church service. Personal and subjective? Yes, but such leading is also confirmed by fitness for the work (competency, as described above) and moral integrity in all aspects of life (or character, to copy your good choice of wording).
The train wrecks chronicled on this website are usually accompanied by lack of best practices for employment. Having never met these fallen pastors, I cannot attest to whether they were in fact called to the pulpit or gifted with necessary skill sets [though I remain quite skeptical of anyone who claims that calling alone, without seminary education or equivalent training, is sufficient]. Perhaps some were indeed “savage wolves” mentioned in Acts 20:29 — driven by unbridled ego, hungry for fame and fortune, and masked by magnetic personality. As you note, however, clear job descriptions, regular evaluations, and accountability will help truly qualified pastors maintain their positions and may wisely direct some persons to seek other occupations.
Paul, I want to echo the thoughts above me. I am a Senior Pastor in the Methodist Church. I didn’t want to a be a pastor of any sort. I was a career officer in the Army. People often told me I “should” be a pastor, but I quickly rejoined, “I’m not called to be a pastor.” My passion was leading Soldiers in combat. Then, I had a very clear call from God, 3 actually, that made it clear to me that God’s expectation for me was to be a pastor in this season of life and to do anything else would be to rebel against God’s will.
Although the subject of call and the theology around it is difficult to define, open to abuse and poor theological approaches, I do believe its biblical, and experience as well as the tradition of the church seems to emphasize its place. If a person came to me and expressed an interest in ministry but with no call, I would walk with them, but be clear that pastoral ministry requires a call and caution them about going too far down the path without the permission of the Holy Spirit.
Wes, cool story. I mean it. But think of what it means to the people in your congregation: precious little. What matters to them is that you serve them with competency and character. This is best accomplished through accountability, not an appeal to some past coincidences that may or may not have been God.
One of the key stories I always think about in regards to accountability is Matt 8:5-13. Perhaps this means something to you as a solider. The centurion has commanders above him and soldiers under him. I have seen many times how cool stories about a “calling” are used as a substitute for accountability.
After having said all this, I believe many “callings” are real and from God – I trust that’s true for you. It’s just not a substitute for accountability.
Her husband has an interesting article on the Pathos blog. He tells how the women at his seminary were not allowed to practice preaching in front of the men. The men literally had to leave the room. Then he would go and learn Hebrew from a woman professor at the very same seminary.
On interpreting Paul’s directives: Do you think maybe the Galatian church had some questions for Paul when he had Timothy circumcised? Might there be a subjective element involved here?
Spiritual giftedness and roles are two different things; it’s unfortunate that you were led to believe otherwise. There are so many ways to use your giftedness that don’t require usurping the *one* role set aside for men – and different does not mean lesser.
This testimony is full of false dilemmas to create a narrative. There narrative in the church is a reflection of the world. Government no longer follows the constitution. Media doesn’t care about the truth if it doesn’t fit their narrative. Lastly, the church is seeking anyway it can to go outside of scripture. Jesus was right when it came to being a follower. Self denial and only few will enter the narrow gate. Maranatha.
What spiritual gifts assessments indicate that a person should be a pastor? That part does not make sense. An SBC church ordains a pastor/elder/ deacon- it is definitely not determined by a battery of tests.
I am trying to think what gifts a pastor might have that can’t be used in service in another capacity within the church. And don’t pastors have different spiritual gifts and the assessments are for the purpose of informing the pastor or anyone else, so that they can better serve the church?
If those of you who oppose women “pastors” genuinely want to explore the I Timothy and Titus verses to see if your interpretation of them is correct, you might find Marg Mowszco a useful resource.
There are many scholars who hold to the infallibility of Scripture who interpret those verses differently from the way the SBC does.
The Vaptist union of Great Britain and Ireland accepts women pastors while leaving the decision to the autonomous churches in true Baptist tradition.
Grainne, the simple reading of the Timothy and Titus passages say only men can be pastors, overseers, and elders. I also find very helpful, the YouTube videos of Mike Winger on this issue. He presents the egalitarian arguments for women holding the positions stated above and why he finds them flawed. He delves into egalitarian sources and checks them out. He covers the passages in depth, looking into the definitions of the Greek words and examining their use.
This is the kind of scenario that brought us to the place where God directed my wife and me to move our ministry out of the SBC in 2006. We were both saved in SBC churches, schooled in SBC schools, and I served as Pastor of SBC churches, with her support and service by my side. The disregard
for clear Biblical teachings on women Pastors, issues of modesty, worldly music, and now as the “woke” mindset creeps its way in, it is confirmed to us again and again it was the right move to make.
While you all squabble and bicker over things the Word of God makes clear, we have moved on
to continue to serve God in peace and victory.