In a message to his congregation last night that was livestreamed on social media, Missouri pastor John Lindell accused disgraced preacher Mark Driscoll of slander and “sowing disunity” and urged Driscoll to “publicly repent.”
Lindell’s comments follow a public dispute between him and Driscoll at the Stronger Men’s Conference last weekend, concerning a controversial performance by sword-swallower Alex Magala. Driscoll called the performance a “strip” act exhibiting the “spirit of Jezebel,” which prompted Lindell to stop Driscoll’s message, yelling, “You’re done!”
Soon afterwards, however, the two men appeared on-stage and seemed to reconcile.
Yet Lindell said last night that Driscoll had subsequently contacted Lindell’s adult son, David Lindell, and urged him to oust his parents and brother from leadership at James River. Currently, John and Debbie Lindell serve as lead pastors at James River, but their sons, David and Brandon, are slated to take over leadership in the near future.
“What Mark had done at this point was so egregious,” John Lindell told his congregation. “Attempting to tear down the leadership of the church, attempting to create doubt and friction between brothers, attempting to sow discord between a father and a son. It seems demonic to me.”
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Lindell said that he had confronted Driscoll privately about what he did, but Driscoll wouldn’t listen. Lindell said he then asked marriage author Jimmy Evans to intervene, but Driscoll wouldn’t listen to Evans either. So now, Lindell was “following Jesus’ plan in Matthew 18” and taking the matter to the whole church.
“Mark, if you are listening to this message, we love you,” Lindell said. “And it’s with a heavy heart that we are calling you to repent.”
TRR reached out to Driscoll’s ministry for comment but did not receive a response.
War of words over alleged ‘strip’ act
Though Driscoll likened Magala’s act at the conference to a pole dancing routine, Lindell told his congregation that Magala’s performance was more of an “acrobatic” act. Lindell also contended that Magala had become a Christian and “participated in worship at every opportunity.”
Magala also posted online that he is a Christian who seeks to “inspire and entertain” with his “danger act.” He added that he is “aligned with” James River Church and its purpose.
Yet some observers have cast doubt on the sincerity of Magala’s faith, pointing to provocative videos and photos on his social profiles. Pictures on Magala’s website today show the shirtless performer giving the finger to the camera.
Lindell’s continued support of Magala apparently upset Driscoll, according to excerpts of texts Lindell projected on-screen to his congregation.
In a text to David Lindell on Saturday night, Driscoll reportedly referred to some of Magala’s recent social posts. “He (Alex) posted James River on his social media with your gals. Gay porn stripper. Jezebel.”
The next day, Driscoll repeatedly posted online about the “Jezebel spirit” and his new book on the topic.
“(Driscoll) knew that Alex was a Christian,” Lindell said last night. “But it would seem that storyline would ruin his ability to generate clicks and sales.”
Lindell added that Driscoll’s repeated social posts have resulted in “death threats and horrible abuse to our James River Church receptionists.”
“Our receptionists were frightened and were in tears yesterday,” said Lindell. “ . . . so much so that, for the first time ever, we shut down our switchboard and put all calls to voicemail “ He added: “To this point, Mark has done nothing to calm down the vigilante acts of his followers.”
The pastor, whose church is affiliated with the Assemblies of God (AG), said he had spoken to AG General Superintendent Doug Clay in recent days about the ongoing issue. Lindell claimed AG headquarters had received “violent threats” and had “disturbing interaction with callers” related to the controversy.
A spokesperson for the AG confirmed Lindell’s account.
“The Assemblies of God National Office received an unusually high number of contacts which forced us to shift our response protocols in order to accommodate,” spokesperson Mark Forrester told TRR. The AG offered no further comment on the larger controversy.
Broken friendship
The animosity between Lindell and Driscoll has challenged a decade-long friendship.
Lindell said he had stood by Driscoll in 2014, following the implosion of Mars Hill Church precipitated by Driscoll’s years of documented bullying and spiritual abuse.
“When Mars Hill fell apart and Mark had very few friends, we stood with Mark and Grace to encourage them,” said Lindell. “We shared our platform with them when almost no one else would.”
He also confirmed past reporting by TRR regarding how Gateway Church Senior Pastor Robert Morris and marriage author Jimmy Evans have played in Driscoll’s comeback. Lindell described the two pastors as “spiritual overseers” who helped Driscoll and his wife “reestablish their ministry in Arizona, through the planting of Trinity Church.”
Now Lindell recounted a phone call that Driscoll had with David Lindell. According to the elder Lindell’s account, Driscoll said, “There is something evil at work in the church. There is a mixture of the sinful and the sacred.”
Driscoll allegedly urged David to “differentiate” from his brother, Brandon, whom Driscoll called “a broken man” and added, “Something is wrong with him,” according to John Lindell’s account.
Lindell said he subsequently contacted Driscoll, appalled at the “ridiculous” accusations against his son. “Where is your integrity?” he asked.
When Driscoll did not respond well, Lindell asked their mutual friend, Evans, to intervene. Driscoll also rebuffed Evans’ call to repent, according to Lindell.
“Honestly, it makes me very, very concerned for Mark,” said Lindell, who closed his sermon with a clarion call to Driscoll.
“Mark, we are calling you to publicly repent for covertly trying to divide brothers and making false and slanderous accusations against Brandon Lindell. Mark, we are calling you to publicly repent for trying to create division in the Lindell family, all the while saying you love us. Mark, we are calling you to publicly repent for trying to destroy James River Church through attacking its leadership.”
Lindell also offered an exhortation to the larger Body of Christ.
“If he refuses to listen, even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector,” he said. “That means if he doesn’t listen to the rebuke of tonight, any believer should not have anything to do with Mark Driscoll.”
Freelance journalist Josh Shepherd writes on faith, culture, and public policy for several media outlets. He and his family live in the Washington, D.C. area.
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34 Responses
Honestly, this conference sounds like a circus.
Complete with an elephant in the room.
Lindell is a false teacher. The fact that he referred to it as “his” church is evidence of where his heart really is.
This is not meant to slam Alex. He was just doing the job he was hired to do. James River used very poor judgement by not vetting this guy.
A video just 3 months ago shows Alex meditating in the zen pose amoung a garden of buddhas and other statues. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTCAl56ptgM
Also, toward the end of this video posted 3 months ago, he uses a curse word. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aIl7fHOy7I&t=15s
These don’t seem to align with Christianity as I know it.
zen pose among* a garden of buddhas
This was a terrible thing to do at any Christian setting. Poles and no shirt and a sword. So gross! It didn’t matter who spoke against it. God uses sinners, drunks and idiots everyday
I can’t defend the choice of Alex nevertheless Mark Driscoll should have not insulted him by saying he’s a stripper, gay man. John Lindell showed he has receipts for every statements he made, I hope church leaders will deplatforn him.
“Mark Driscoll should have not insulted him by saying he’s a stripper, gay man”
Alex Magala is a (current?/former?) stripper that has worked in both gay and straight strip clubs His sexual practices have not been reported on, and not sure it is relevant since he is not a church leader.
A pure mess, in the body of Christ. But as you can read. The back an forth thant happen behind the scenes. That’s what I was talking about. If Driscall would have done the entire thing behind close doors, that’s what we would have saw. And Jimmy Evans? He has done enough! So in that regard, I’m glad he did it openly! Matthew 16:17-19!
Josh Shepherd, thanks for posting John Lindell’s speech. I urge others to listen to the entire 38:46 recording.
Neither Driscoll nor the sword swallower should have been given a platform. Let a snake hitch a ride, don’t be surprised when you’re bitten.
It seems as if all of them are getting a lot of attention. I hope the sword-swallower gets more gigs out of this dust-up. He, of all of them, appears to be honestly just a performer.
“Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.” 1 John 4:1. The Apostle Paul clearly warned us that everything in the church should “be done decently and in order” —1st Corinthians 14:40.
This is what happens when two big ego personalities are platformed at the same event. Neither can be wrong; after all, they are anointed by God. Seems like the church was looking to stir some controversy and got what they wished. Not a Mark Driscoll fan but if his comments destroy that church, I am not sure it will be a loss to the Church of King Jesus. Both sound like they need to find a new gig; maybe selling snake oil on overnight TV.
Scripture describes what happens to a house divided.
Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a “sword”. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. Matthew 10:34-35.
There is nothing biblically wrong with publicly calling out false teachers.
Everyday people, on every comments page are rightly calling out the sword and pole act as inappropriate for a Christian men’s conference. Driscoll did not call out or attack Lindell, but addressed the event humbly, and was cut off by Lindell. Who was trying to cover up here? Who acted in arrogance?
Matt 18 was misapplied by Lindell, and it is disappointing how this blog site appeals to emotion before being a good Berean first. Lindell insist on being in control and controlling the image of James Rover Church as much as the “content” But he is not critical of his own decisions when they are challenged.
I know TRR is not a Driscoll fan, and I am not really either. But the tone and comments here are clearly biased against the full facts.
Now Lindell, who incorrectly cried Matt 18 for Driscoll’s lack of action, is not doing hi sown Matt 18 against Driscoll! Rediculous. I do take issue with Driscoll coaxing Lindells adult son to “stand up”, bcaus e that is decisive. But Driscoll is not the one going public over this. He spoke and responded directly to the Lindell family, and the sons are the assistant pastors, and I understand one of the sons made the decision to bring in Alex.
Go ahead and hate on Driscoll, but men and women across the country believe he was right to speak up to a public sin. While Lindell has now gone to step 3 a judge and jury to cancel Driscoll, as if he can direct the church to do that. Soemthing IS wrong at JRC IMO.
Many might maintain that 1) a topless performer 2) with a history of stripping for both men and women in nightclubs, 3) performing an act suggestive of oral sex in licking a phallic symbol before jamming it down his throat, 4) while demonstrating different bodily positions with the phallic symbol in place 5) at an Assembly of God Church sponsored event 6) in the Assemblies of God Mecca (Springfield, Missouri) . . . . might be somewhat sexually suggestive for some!
I’m beyond words. Why did these same Pastors who are calling for Driscoll to repent NOW REPLATFORM and endorse him a few years ago and help him start another church for more sheep to be abused in. It’s the definition of insanity…repeating the same thing and expecting a different result…DUH! I’m also shocked and disappointed that an A of G church, or for that matter any church would sponsor a men’s event with a sword swallower, Christian or not? Church has truly become about CELEBRITY and ENTERTAINMENT and the world is laughing at us. There, my rant is done! Father God HELP!
Exactly! When John Lindell brought MD back on the platform he cautioned the attendees about speaking against the Lord’s ‘anointed’. But now a few days later, he is asking the body of Christ to treat MD as a pagan if he does not repent because MD is not responding to his calls? Hmmm. Is MD still the Lord’s anointed? Can ‘regular’ Christians now speak about what is going on? Hmmmm. Lord Jesus help us open our eyes to the truth and to look only to you and not the ‘anointed’ celebrity pastors! Jeremiah 17:5-10
“A Call To Anguish” by David Wilkerson, 2002 presentation in Times Square Church, New York City, New York – available on youtube – the condensed segment is 7 minutes long; the complete sermon is 54 minutes in length. This is highly recommended for all of those who are conflicted as a result of this recent, vulgar, partially nude display in this assembly of young men and old men and all of us who have been exposed to the video recording and have read this report. May YHWH have Mercy and bring conviction in Yahshua haMashiach’s Name to all who were present that night and are unable to recognize the spiritual darkness that was cast upon them (it appeared that some men did exit from the room after the presentation. They are to be commended – along with Mark Driscoll for addressing this the next morning).
What an abomination.
I am going to make a somewhat controversial suggestion.
Perhaps we need fewer conferences. Just maybe, what we need for men to be recharged and on fire for God is not a pole dancing man in a state of undress, a bigger stage, bright lights, a circus act, or a big name preacher. Maybe our brothers need to take time away from ALL that. Make time for prayer, fasting, reading God’s word, private worship, discipling sons and daughters, seeking the face of the Lord and receiving revelation and refreshing from Him.
Enough of this foolishness already.
Amen! Could not agree more.
Is there an Achilles’ heel in our hero-pastor mega-church model, in the sense of Lord Acton’s observation, “Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.”? There are obviously wonderful, large, well-led congregations — probably most of them are. I’m thinking of Paul’s rebuke of the Corinthians (1:11-15):
“My brothers and sisters, some … have informed me that there are quarrels among you. … One of you says, “I follow Paul”; another, “I follow Apollos”; another, “I follow Cephas”; still another, “I follow Christ.” Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized in the name of Paul? I thank God that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius, so no one can say that you were baptized in my name.
Is our entrepreneurial industrial-church complex simply not biblical?
Joe (and other readers), you should read “A Lover’s Quarrel with the Evangelical Church” where he makes an excellent case about how churches change as they get larger and larger. I saw that change in Mars Hill Church as it exploded in size. The church changed from being a dynamic place to eventually being all about growth, performance, and of course, the main dude who increasingly rules with an iron rod.
Your very last sentence….really makes ya wonder…and I believe you’re on to something that’ll change your life for the better. Get out of the entrepreneurial industrial church complex (excellent anaolgy) and simplify your faith.
Mark Driscoll refused to listen to the church (Mars Hill). He calls others to repentance, but he does not repent himself. He should only be allowed in any church as a repentant layman…nothing else.
Pastor Lindell’s calls to repent are a decade too late. He should have been calling for Driscoll to repent in 2104 when Driscoll fled accountability for his actions at Mars Hill. Instead, Lindell platformed Driscoll and helped him plant another church.
When you let a scorpion into your home, eventually you get stung.
A plague on both their houses. Our concern should be for the sheep that Lindell helped Driscoll to continue to prey on.
I have started to see reports of this in the secular media.
Calling out sin in a church where you are a visiting speaker is tricky business. With few exceptions, one should always get the green light from the Elders before proceeding. Dancing and yelling is now a common phenomenon in churches but I suspect that it was frowned upon when it first emerged. Much like sword swallowing, it’s easy to dismiss the act dance or shouting as demonic if it is something you are used to seeing. Still, it is easier to justify dancing and shouting from scripture so providing context to other artistic expressions may be prudent.
Mark Driscoll is completely out of line here. Even if the performance was objectively demonic, there is way to address matters and proceed in the kingdom. His conduct, following some initially productive dialogue bears all the hallmarks of rebellion to God ordained leadership and protocols.
We need to pray for our brothers and ourselves. These are times of shaking!
Mbonisi (you must be South African like I am!),
I think that Driscoll did not mean his intro as a rebuke, but rather an introduction to his sermon on the Jezebel Spirit. He likely went off script and then all hell broke loose. He actually said that he was not rebuking anyone just observing. I am NOT defending him, but think that he was trying to cleverly introduce the topic. The entire teaching of the so-called Jezebel Spirit needs to be stopped as it is simply a means of justifying abusing strong women. In this case God stopped it through Mark Driscoll being a little to clever. And now it exposing all these men who demand absolute loyalty or face the wrath on the top dude, followed by calls for repentance and then shunning (which is evil in most cases).
When Mark Driscoll calls you out, and he is right, therein lies the conundrum.
These men should both go become window salesmen. They’re both bad representatives for Christianity
Sixty-five years ago as a boy I visited my grandparents church. They were holiness people and founding members of the Assembly of God church in their town. They went to church service 3 times a week. They rejected the “ways of the world”, not out of legalism but out of reverence to their Lord.
What’s happened to the Assembly of God? I attended an A of G church for a few years 20 years ago. It was already becoming big and fancy with huge programs, large staffs, new buildings, big-time contributors. Now, apparently, some have pole dancers.
Something doesn’t seem right.